A Survival Idea

[dizney07]

The past few days I have been brain storming about ideas for S, while looking at successful servers and even other games. I wanted to make a separate post from my "State of survival" post because I wanted this thread to focus on the opinions of players on my idea and how it would suit S. I'm not pushing to get this implemented, just merely brain storming to create and experience all players can enjoy.

 

First off I wanted to say that after playing this rev, I truly dislike random spawning. This is because in my opinion, it takes away from pvp, and makes it more about surviving and hiding rather then pvp. Even players who enjoy pvp find it hard to find each other unless fights are organized (which I personally don't find as fun or as thrilling as finding someone randomly). Saying this, my idea is actually based around random spawning. The core of my idea was to find away to improve the server as it is right now instead of changing to something completely new. So without further ado:

 

Goodbye Enchanting: I know what you're thinking. "Oh dizney you've always been against enchants blah blah blah" and yeah you're right, I've always been against enchants. But this is different. I'm not saying get rid of enchants, just enchanting. Remove enchanting tables. Make it so the game doesn't revolve around players sitting in a grinder for three hours to get good armor. Now I know what you're thinking again: "dizneypls you cant have enchants without enchanting tables" and you'd be wrong! Anvils. Using enchanted books, you can enchant your gear (however I suggest taking away the need for levels to do this).But you would need to get enchanted books, and where might we find those enchanted books...?

 

Random Loot Chests: This idea I 100% stole from rust. Sue me. Ok don't sue me I don't have money. But this idea suggests that there are chests that drop random loot. Loot that could be enchanted books. This is the core of the idea. If there is a set area (such as an abandoned town) that has chests that randomly generate a different enchanted book every 10 minutes when there isn't enchanting to begin with, then you have successfully created a pvp area. Players will flock to these locations to try and acquire the loot that other players can't get. It centralizes pvp to a certain area, lessening the need to search for players randomly in the wild. This not only benefits players that pvp, but also players who want to stay far away from the pvp action. With players less likely to hunt far away, players are free to live on the outskirts of the map. Now players could be saying to themselves "well dizney, wouldn't the players who receive better enchants be at an advantage?". No. Because if a player has enchanted armor, that's rare. And players love rare items. Meaning they will try and kill the players wearing the armor to receive the loot (ayyy more pvp). "well why would they do that if they're just going to lose their armor" well armor isn't hard to find, and with iron grinders a thing, irons value has dropped alot this rev. Meaning why not risk a little to get a lot? So going back to the locations, how will the players find out where these.. lets say 4 locations that spawn loot are...?

 

BRING BACK THE ROAD: Reread that. It says road. Not roads. I dont want cardinal directions. I want one, small road that makes a circle (or some weird shape) that goes around the map and goes through the 4 locations.This again creates a focal point for pvp. Take the roads to the other locations to find loot? Boom, you meet up with someone else. Do you run, fight or try and make peace? You decide. This can also help newer players with finding people, and can help players who want to avoid pvp by letting them know to not go that way.

 

So with all of this said, a few smaller things have been brought up that I added to this idea:

-Make a map. I want a map like PvE's map, however without players being on it. This helps the players know where these locations are, find the roads easier and all around just a nice thing to have. 

-This next one I'm quoting straight from the other thread: "Static things placed over the map that provide buffs of some form that can be captured and controlled. The buffs would be relatively minor so you don't become a PvP god if you manage to capture them all, but still helpful enough to where you want to go after them. They could serve as attractors to bring people to an area and encourage PvP, and be protected with a decently sized region to discourage building bases around them to make it impossible for others to cap them. " - TheRandomnatrix. I think this a great idea and can be implemented into the four areas.

-The End Portal is at 0,0. No more hiding the end somewhere. Why is this a big deal? Because then anyone can go for the dragon, creating more teams, and more enemies as you try to deal with fighting what is supposed to be the hardest boss in the game. I get it, it's a great achievment finding the end and end dragon, but honestly the players who don't care, still aren't going to care in the long run. UNLESS ->

-The End Dragon drops good loot. Good enchanted books such as prot IV or sharp V. This encourages everyone to try and fight the dragon, and then creates a tense end when players fight with each other to try and claim the god books. Muahahaha I'm evil. Oh but players who aren't on the first night won't get the chance to fight the dragon. True. UNLESS->

-The End Dragon RESPAWNS. Randomly. Anytime between 24 and 48 hours after being killed. This creates more reason to go to the end and try and farm god books off of the dragon, even though it can only be done once every 1 or 2 days.

 

 

Well that's about it. I know it's a lot, but I hope I made it entertaining enough for you. Please leave your thoughts and opinions, both positive ad negative. This isn't for me, but for the server that I only want to see improve. 

-dizney07 

 

[Diznatch52]

Please, please, implement these things. Yes, I know, they're not vanilla. They're very not vanilla. But maybe they're exactly what survival needs.

 

Not sure how I feel about the 1 road, however, I don't have experience with non-cardinal roads on S.

[dizney07]

After posting this in the subreddit, I've decided to quote the responses here to show different thoughts of players :]

 

"I really like these ideas. They add more to the server that I feel the random spawn took away. The only thing is that i feel the dragon looting might get out of hand pretty fast." - usernametakenFFFUUU

-With dragon looting being only a once every two days thing, I can't see it causing that many problems besides creating more pvp in the end for the drops. In the end, that would only be about 28 drops over the course of an entire 2 month rev

 

"I would rethink the number of random loot drop locations. That or somehow the drop time interval changes when there are fewer players online. Off times I can see someone just standing next to a chest and collecting tons of loot when no one else is on or when other players are at other drop locations doing the same thing.

Hope this makes sense. Typing on my phone.

Edit: other than that I love the ideas and can't wait for the new Rev and what you are implementing." - Adda717

-At first I agreed and tried to find a way to balance this, however the more I thought about it, it seems that would be hampering players who play more then those who don't. To me, if you play more then another player, you SHOULD have a better advantage over them

[djt832]

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm behind these changes 100%.

[dizney07]

"If you don't want me to enchant pvp gear... Okay. Take away my ability to get to fortune 3 in the first hour of the game? Goodbye will be my response." - TexasTormenture

"These are amazing ideas. I too dislike enchanting in a PVP perspective. Unbreaking, Looting, Fortune etc can all stay as these help the building aspects of the server. But Sharpness etc.. Nah. Take them out. Leave those enchants for books!" - PeteLucas

- Actually this is a good point. My thought process was based more around enchants focused on pvp (sharpness, protection, fire aspect) etc. The enchantment table could made to where swords armor and bows can't be enchanted, but tools still can.

[barneygale]

Slightly unsure about circular road (1 north-south road would be my preference), but I agree with everything else.

[smdavis93]

Dizney I love you. These definitely aren't vanilla but trying to stay vanilla is what is bringing the server down, in my opinion. I think all of these are a great idea.  There just needs to be a good balance between what loot is in the chests and how often they reset and spawn other items.

 

Another possibility:

    - What if a shop system was added? Instead of just the normal items you can normally buy and sell in shops, why not add in the enchanted books? You could buy and sell those too so if you do happen to get them from a loot chest but they are not the droids you're looking for... ;) you would be able to trade them in for in-game currency and buy books or other items that you do need.

[michael12308]

This is amazing. Plz yes

[dizney07]

Bumping because I still think this could work, even with citadel. Would still love feedback. These add ons could bring more players in while continuing to keep them interested in S.

[Mumberthrax]

Dizney, as always you've got some great ideas. I'm sorry i wasn't able to see/respond to this sooner. I'd like to see some or all of these tried out in the next revision. It might be a bit tricky to set up the random loot chests (I've not played rust so might need a little more clarification on the details of how this would be set up - like, where are these chests? Just in dungeons? What sorts of loot might they contain? Do we have non-vanilla dungeons too?) but we might be able to make it work with some thought.

 

I know that in the poll for this revision a lot of people responded that they wanted enchantism back, and like a 15x xp buff. I'm not sure if all those who voted still feel that way, but this lack of enchanting might also be acceptable to them instead.

 

Still trying to get caught up on everything that's happened while I've been gone, will post more later.

[dizney07]

Dizney, as always you've got some great ideas. I'm sorry i wasn't able to see/respond to this sooner. I'd like to see some or all of these tried out in the next revision. It might be a bit tricky to set up the random loot chests (I've not played rust so might need a little more clarification on the details of how this would be set up - like, where are these chests? Just in dungeons? What sorts of loot might they contain? Do we have non-vanilla dungeons too?) but we might be able to make it work with some thought.

 

I know that in the poll for this revision a lot of people responded that they wanted enchantism back, and like a 15x xp buff. I'm not sure if all those who voted still feel that way, but this lack of enchanting might also be acceptable to them instead.

 

Still trying to get caught up on everything that's happened while I've been gone, will post more later.

 

 

Basically the chests would have completely random loot, and would be reset every 10 or so minutes. It would be in a location that was public and can't be griefed, such as an abandoned ghost town. The idea is to keep everyone having to go to these chests to get better gear, encouraging PvP and bases to be set up near the chests. Centralizing pvp and bases would make the game a lot more fun rather than having everyone spread out far away in my opinion 

[djt832]

Dizney, as always you've got some great ideas. I'm sorry i wasn't able to see/respond to this sooner. I'd like to see some or all of these tried out in the next revision. It might be a bit tricky to set up the random loot chests (I've not played rust so might need a little more clarification on the details of how this would be set up - like, where are these chests? Just in dungeons? What sorts of loot might they contain? Do we have non-vanilla dungeons too?) but we might be able to make it work with some thought.

 

I know that in the poll for this revision a lot of people responded that they wanted enchantism back, and like a 15x xp buff. I'm not sure if all those who voted still feel that way, but this lack of enchanting might also be acceptable to them instead.

 

Still trying to get caught up on everything that's happened while I've been gone, will post more later.

 

I was one of the people that voted for enchantism and a large xp bump, solely because I did not think we had a chance of eliminating enchanting. If its going to be around, I would rather it be as easy as possible, not a tedious, monotone task that takes up the majority of my game time. That being said, I would be ecstatic to see enchants go by the wayside again. 

 

Also, welcome back Mumber :D

[Mumberthrax]

Basically the chests would have completely random loot, and would be reset every 10 or so minutes. It would be in a location that was public and can't be griefed, such as an abandoned ghost town. The idea is to keep everyone having to go to these chests to get better gear, encouraging PvP and bases to be set up near the chests. Centralizing pvp and bases would make the game a lot more fun rather than having everyone spread out far away in my opinion 

 

we might need to enact some kind of rules about the size of builds around such a centralized resource. We also would need some creative types to make us some ghost towns, or select locations/builds from previous maps that might fit the bill. Can we get a list of some possible loot that might appear in said chests? just something to serve as an example. Do we know of any plugins that can handle this? Maybe a commandhelper script? What, exactly would it need to do? Just every ten minutes or so select one of the specified chests and rotate out its inventory from a list of items? What sorts of problems might we encounter with such a setup? How might it be abused to potentially provide unfair advantages or spoil fun for others?

 

Something that occurred to me yesterday was something similar, when i was thinking about an FPS game i used to play called Time Splitters 2 wherein there was a "gladiator" game mode. A player is randomly selected to be the gladiator and receives buffs. In that game, only the kills a player makes while gladiator count toward points, and if someone kills the gladiator then they become gladiator. So naturally everybody is trying to kill the gladiator and the gladiator is trying to kill as many people as possible. In minecraft it would be cool if a plugin could have a set of buffed armor/weapons that disappear if dropped or chested, but are transferred to the gladiator's killer upon death. If after a period of time the gladiator doesn't kill anyone, or just a hard time limit, someone else randomly becomes the gladiator.

 

not sure if that would work for a long-running game style, or would be better as a short event, maybe for a day or two? maybe once a week? it seems like it would fit in well with the whole no-enchanting theme from your suggestion. i have no idea if a plugin that does this has been made already or how difficult it would be to code. ;_;

[Mumberthrax]

I was one of the people that voted for enchantism and a large xp bump, solely because I did not think we had a chance of eliminating enchanting. If its going to be around, I would rather it be as easy as possible, not a tedious, monotone task that takes up the majority of my game time. That being said, I would be ecstatic to see enchants go by the wayside again.

 

Avadakedavra spoke to me the other day about enchants. He mentioned that he thought that when S removed enchants in the past, around rev 18? that it caused a lot of players to leave. I started playing around the end of rev 18, and our nerd.nu history project isn't up and running yet, so I don't know whether that's accurate or if there were other details that may have contributed to that event. I mean, I'm all for experimentation and learning, but it's good to learn from others' choices when possible rather than making your own mistakes unnecessarily. In any case, I'm glad to hear more support for the idea. :)

 

Also, welcome back Mumber :D

 

Thanks! :D

[djt832]

Avadakedavra spoke to me the other day about enchants. He mentioned that he thought that when S removed enchants in the past, around rev 18? that it caused a lot of players to leave. I started playing around the end of rev 18, and our nerd.nu history project isn't up and running yet, so I don't know whether that's accurate or if there were other details that may have contributed to that event. I mean, I'm all for experimentation and learning, but it's good to learn from others' choices when possible rather than making your own mistakes unnecessarily. In any case, I'm glad to hear more support for the idea. :)

 

 

Thanks! :D

 

Im not sure about that. From my memories, it sparked a lot of PvP and it seemed to be one of the more active revs. I guess we would have to really look back in the archives to see if anything pops up about it. A good start for the history project maybe!

 

Edit: After a quick look at the wiki, the revision I am remembering is 19. I was not active during 18, seems to have been during a time I was busy with irl stuff. In 19, we had enchantments on bows and all non-pvp related enchants as well. It worked great, however if repeated, we might want to consider rebalancing bow enchantments. 

[dizney07]

we might need to enact some kind of rules about the size of builds around such a centralized resource. We also would need some creative types to make us some ghost towns, or select locations/builds from previous maps that might fit the bill. Can we get a list of some possible loot that might appear in said chests? just something to serve as an example. Do we know of any plugins that can handle this? Maybe a commandhelper script? What, exactly would it need to do? Just every ten minutes or so select one of the specified chests and rotate out its inventory from a list of items? What sorts of problems might we encounter with such a setup? How might it be abused to potentially provide unfair advantages or spoil fun for others?

 

-I agree with the size of claims in the area as well, unless we were using the citadel gameplay again in which case it wouldn't matter as much.

 

-How about setting up contests on C for the ghost towns? It would be cool to utilize the other servers and players in our community to help!

 

-I'll create a document tonight of the list of loot I think would be good to include in the chests.

 

- Essentially yes, just the chests would be reset every 10 minutes or so with one or two randomized items from the chests. Honestly I have no idea about plug ins, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff. Maybe we could talk to a tech to see if it's possible?

 

-One of the problems I could see would be bigger clans camping out at an area trying to gain the loot, but I don't really see that as a disadvantage. Players would still be able to loot one of the few (I was thinking 4)  ghost towns playing solo, and it would centralize pvp in areas. It would also encourage players to be on as much as possible to try and keep up with other players getting loot. 

 

Something that occurred to me yesterday was something similar, when i was thinking about an FPS game i used to play called Time Splitters 2 wherein there was a "gladiator" game mode. A player is randomly selected to be the gladiator and receives buffs. In that game, only the kills a player makes while gladiator count toward points, and if someone kills the gladiator then they become gladiator. So naturally everybody is trying to kill the gladiator and the gladiator is trying to kill as many people as possible. In minecraft it would be cool if a plugin could have a set of buffed armor/weapons that disappear if dropped or chested, but are transferred to the gladiator's killer upon death. If after a period of time the gladiator doesn't kill anyone, or just a hard time limit, someone else randomly becomes the gladiator.

 

not sure if that would work for a long-running game style, or would be better as a short event, maybe for a day or two? maybe once a week? it seems like it would fit in well with the whole no-enchanting theme from your suggestion. i have no idea if a plugin that does this has been made already or how difficult it would be to code. ;_;

Side note: Time Splitters 2, fantastic game. 11/10.

 

Honestly this could be a lot of fun to randomly implement. I think it would make for a really fun game mode, but if I think if implemented into the rev randomly could give players huge advantages. I think it would be a lot of fun in an arena setting though, and I love these ideas to try and encourage pvp!

[Mumberthrax]

-How about setting up contests on C for the ghost towns? It would be cool to utilize the other servers and players in our community to help!

 

Good idea. Those C players are ridiculously talented and i remember those speed-building competitions were a lot of fun! Maybe after we have an idea of what sorts of builds we would like to have we can chat with Cadmins and see what could be set up. I imagine right now most people are having fun building their own thing since the revision is so new, so maybe in a little while there would be a good time to have some kind of building event.

 

-I'll create a document tonight of the list of loot I think would be good to include in the chests.

 

Awesome. Keep us posted. :D

 

- Essentially yes, just the chests would be reset every 10 minutes or so with one or two randomized items from the chests. Honestly I have no idea about plug ins, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff. Maybe we could talk to a tech to see if it's possible?

 

Alrighty. I'll search a bit on the bukkit and spigot plugin site to see if anything like this is already out there, and I'll ask our lovely techadmins if something like this is within their mighty powers to create if a plugin can't be found. Then we can hammer out some details with mods and the other Sadmins and non-staff on if we want it to do anything else in particular before pleading for the technomancers to come to our aid. I'm pretty sure i've seen an enderdragon respawning battle plugin thingy before, so I'll look into that as well. I know we can alter mob drops, so if there's no plugin for it we can just alter the drops and a mod/admin can manually spawn one in periodically - if it's decided that this is what we want to pursue officially.

[dizney07]

Good idea. Those C players are ridiculously talented and i remember those speed-building competitions were a lot of fun! Maybe after we have an idea of what sorts of builds we would like to have we can chat with Cadmins and see what could be set up. I imagine right now most people are having fun building their own thing since the revision is so new, so maybe in a little while there would be a good time to have some kind of building event.

 

 

Awesome. Keep us posted. :D

 

 

Alrighty. I'll search a bit on the bukkit and spigot plugin site to see if anything like this is already out there, and I'll ask our lovely techadmins if something like this is within their mighty powers to create if a plugin can't be found. Then we can hammer out some details with mods and the other Sadmins and non-staff on if we want it to do anything else in particular before pleading for the technomancers to come to our aid. I'm pretty sure i've seen an enderdragon respawning battle plugin thingy before, so I'll look into that as well. I know we can alter mob drops, so if there's no plugin for it we can just alter the drops and a mod/admin can manually spawn one in periodically - if it's decided that this is what we want to pursue officially.

 

I've compiled a list of items based purely off my opinion what they should be ranked/how much should be given: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uJCRzm42VdD7DJxGyI4b_-wptsMAyaLXrDOw4lfhcpU/edit#gid=0

 

I've also found a few plug ins that seem to be similar, maybe just need to be tweaked a bit if possible: 

- http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/treasurehunt/

- http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/loot/

[roastnewt]

Personally, I would not play a revision that doesn't have enchantments.

 

But (unlike some people :P) I understand if you decide that what is best for the community is to go with something I don't like.

[Four_Down]

Goodbye Enchanting: I know what you're thinking. "Oh dizney you've always been against enchants blah blah blah" and yeah you're right, I've always been against enchants. But this is different. I'm not saying get rid of enchants, just enchanting. Remove enchanting tables. Make it so the game doesn't revolve around players sitting in a grinder for three hours to get good armor. Now I know what you're thinking again: "dizneypls you cant have enchants without enchanting tables" and you'd be wrong! Anvils. Using enchanted books, you can enchant your gear (however I suggest taking away the need for levels to do this).But you would need to get enchanted books, and where might we find those enchanted books...?

http://youtu.be/umDr0mPuyQc

 

[Gizzletinks]

I like everything except no enchanting, we just need to limit enchants properly to provide pvp balance. Also I would rather have cardinal roads than a circle.

[dizney07]

Just wanted to point out that while the original idea had focused on no enchants, I agreed it would be better to have enchants better balanced: 

"If you don't want me to enchant pvp gear... Okay. Take away my ability to get to fortune 3 in the first hour of the game? Goodbye will be my response." - TexasTormenture

"These are amazing ideas. I too dislike enchanting in a PVP perspective. Unbreaking, Looting, Fortune etc can all stay as these help the building aspects of the server. But Sharpness etc.. Nah. Take them out. Leave those enchants for books!" - PeteLucas

- Actually this is a good point. My thought process was based more around enchants focused on pvp (sharpness, protection, fire aspect) etc. The enchantment table could made to where swords armor and bows can't be enchanted, but tools still can.

 

The problem is that loot means nothing to players if it's already available to them. A chest with one diamond is nice, but you can mine one diamond in 10 minutes (the same amount as the chests would regen). So with this, there are still enchants through the loot. This centralizes pvp (which is a plus) and gives players a reason to play. Without having something different to offer, we're just another pvp server without factions. 

[flameoguy]

What most people are missing is that enchants are allowed, just only accessible by chests placed in abandoned villages.

[djt832]

Bumping. I'd like to see us give this idea a shot

[roastnewt]

Unfortunately, they have stated that they are removing "some pvp enchantments" next revision, so it sounds like that part of your suggestion is getting implemented.