On the subject of end grinders in PvE.

[buzzie71]

This is buzzie.  Just want to mention that the Padmins know about this and are looking into it.  I urge you to please be patient with us, and focus on the question at hand.  Opinions in this thread, we appreciate; attacks on players or towns, we do not.  

 

thrawn nailed the topic under debate in the previous page, but I've pasted it here for convenience:
 

Alrighty guys, let please keep this to a discussion about end grinders and public/private spaces on PvE. The issue is not about who's said what or cities or reputations, and I don't want people flaming each other here, as that just pushes the discussion off track. As I see it, the question is:

• Should private groups or individuals be allowed to build personal grinders in the end?

And this could be broadened to discuss the entirety of the PvE rule:

• The map should be considered open for exploration. Players are not allowed to completely block off large sections of the map. Access to land and buildings should not be "restricted". Anything can be explored by anyone. Rare exceptions include structures such as private animal farms.

[uni0]

S player here. Enchanting has been historically broken in Minecraft. I used to spend hours/days/months using grinder, waiting 2 hours for a single piece of armor. While S is PVP oriented and enchanting has a bigger role perhaps than P, I think the enchanting issues is taking a toll on P now.

 

Our solution? XP plump. We no longer rely sorely on the end to do decent enchanting. In fact we have multiple end grinders on s, and we aren't fighting over them because they are no longer the primary source of enchanting.

 

With xp plump, overworld grinders are as decent as the end, so the end is now primarily used for pearls, not xp.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd share this viewpoint, take it or leave it, I thought it might help when considering different options in how to fix this issue.

[Sapphric]

S player here. Enchanting has been historically broken in Minecraft. I used to spend hours/days/months using grinder, waiting 2 hours for a single piece of armor. While S is PVP oriented and enchanting has a bigger role perhaps than P, I think the enchanting issues is taking a toll on P now.

 

Our solution? XP plump. We no longer rely sorely on the end to do decent enchanting. In fact we have multiple end grinders on s, and we aren't fighting over them because they are no longer the primary source of enchanting.

 

With xp plump, overworld grinders are as decent as the end, so the end is now primarily used for pearls, not xp.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd share this viewpoint, take it or leave it, I thought it might help when considering different options in how to fix this issue.

 

This could potentially solve the problem. The only issue I have is it further removes the server from being "vanilla," which I know has been the goal from the start. That is, the admins want the server to be as vanilla as possible while still being capable of hosting the large numbers of people it does. Obviously things like the mobcap and other plugins take away from the vanilla-ness of the server, but they are necessary considering how many people play on the servers.

 

Personally I like the idea, but I don't know if the admins would consider an XP plump on P. There was one in the past, back when 50 levels was the max enchantment level. It would be good to make overworld grinders worth it for XP though. The only time I ever use them now is for string or bones/arrows.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Sapphric

[Diznatch52]

Alrighty guys, let please keep this to a discussion about end grinders and public/private spaces on PvE. The issue is not about who's said what or cities or reputations, and I don't want people flaming each other here, as that just pushes the discussion off track. As I see it, the question is:

• Should private groups or individuals be allowed to build personal grinders in the end?

And this could be broadened to discuss the entirety of the PvE rule:

• The map should be considered open for exploration. Players are not allowed to completely block off large sections of the map. Access to land and buildings should not be "restricted". Anything can be explored by anyone. Rare exceptions include structures such as private animal farms.

 

Also,

 

S player here. Enchanting has been historically broken in Minecraft. I used to spend hours/days/months using grinder, waiting 2 hours for a single piece of armor. While S is PVP oriented and enchanting has a bigger role perhaps than P, I think the enchanting issues is taking a toll on P now.

 

Our solution? XP plump. We no longer rely sorely on the end to do decent enchanting. In fact we have multiple end grinders on s, and we aren't fighting over them because they are no longer the primary source of enchanting.

 

With xp plump, overworld grinders are as decent as the end, so the end is now primarily used for pearls, not xp.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd share this viewpoint, take it or leave it, I thought it might help when considering different options in how to fix this issue.

 

 

Drawing from these two, I'm of the opinion that it would be best overall for P, and the most in the spirit of P, to have 1 public grinder that is worked on by everyone who would like to. This may cuase problems with who is heading the problems, but come on, we're Pers, we can figure that out. In the case where it is decided that it would not be fair to limit people to only building one grinder, I would be with Uni0 in advocating for an xp plump.

 

That being said, should two grinders be built, i feel very strongly that access to them should not be restricted, just as access to the special spawners weren't restricted from last rev when people made creeper and zig grinders.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Diznatch52

[sbrandwoo]

This could potentially solve the problem. The only issue I have is it further removes the server from being "vanilla," which I know has been the goal from the start. That is, the admins want the server to be as vanilla as possible while still being capable of hosting the large numbers of people it does. Obviously things like the mobcap and other plugins take away from the vanilla-ness of the server, but they are necessary considering how many people play on the servers.

 

I think it makes sense that the logic of "there are less sheep, you get more wool" could be spread to "there are less endermen, you get more XP".

 

Personally I don't like the grinding, I want to build things as a community, without the ultimate freedom of creative, so the end grinder is purely a means to an end. I don't want to be stuck in a queue because a few other individuals have 50% of spawns for themselves, nor do I want to be running between grinders to find where there are the fewest people. So I would vote for 1 end grinder, and whatever XP plumping that needs to be done to make the server fun to play.

 

Steve

[Weazol]

I just wanted to stop by and say that I too agree with an XP plump. Im not sure how limiting it can be, but if we can make zombie grinders just as good as end grinders then there wont be a fuss over anything. I do understand it takes a way from vanilla, but really? I mean I spend maybe one night a month in the end getting a new set of tools. Actually now that I say that, I guess it doesn't matter either way.

 

However, a private grinder in the End is wrong. It slows down the main grinder and since the entire end is considered one chunk the resources are limited.

[Sapphric]

I just wanted to stop by and say that I too agree with an XP plump. Im not sure how limiting it can be, but if we can make zombie grinders just as good as end grinders then there wont be a fuss over anything. I do understand it takes a way from vanilla, but really? I mean I spend maybe one night a month in the end getting a new set of tools. Actually now that I say that, I guess it doesn't matter either way.

 

However, a private grinder in the End is wrong. It slows down the main grinder and since the entire end is considered one chunk the resources are limited.

 

Could it be possible to limit the XP plump to overworld/nether grinders alone? Otherwise people would still try to use the end grinders because of the plump.

[buzzie71]

Could it be possible to limit the XP plump to overworld/nether grinders alone? Otherwise people would still try to use the end grinders because of the plump.

From my time on S I know that the XP plump they use there already makes any grinder, even a crude whack-everything-that-comes-out-of-a-spawner-with-a-sword grinder, faster than P's End grinder on its best day.  Certainly you could get more XP even faster at the End grinder if the plump affects it, but any grinder with the plump would be adequate for enchanting.

[Diznatch52]

From my time on S I know that the XP plump they use there already makes any grinder, even a crude whack-everything-that-comes-out-of-a-spawner-with-a-sword grinder, faster than P's End grinder on its best day.  Certainly you could get more XP even faster at the End grinder if the plump affects it, but any grinder with the plump would be adequate for enchanting.

I think he means that just as people on S still use the end grinder for long grinding sessions, people might consider an XP plumped End grinder on P to be so far off from vanilla as to be unnecessary.

[pokegeek1234]

If the "Don't be a dick move was in affect, I suppose the platform-stopping grinders on Survival would be banned, but they're not. Also, don't pull "S has less of a friendly atmosphere" on me-the rules are the exact same and apply the same.

[Diznatch52]

Also, don't pull "S has less of a friendly atmosphere" on me-the rules are the exact same and apply the same.

I agree with you, but the rules between S and P are most definitely not the same.

[pokegeek1234]

I agree with you, but the rules between S and P are most definitely not the same.

I understand what you mean, but its under Universal, therefore its the same under all categories on all servers. I don't think the atmosphere/type of game-play should in which anyway change any Universal rule, though.

[TheRandomnatrix]

Given the nature of this concern, I looked into this and found this trust was not breached.

 

Admittedly, the mod in question was probably me. I assumed it was fairly obvious that a grinder was being built, because it's very easy to see bridges coming off the mainland, I'd heard several people discussing plans for grinders, and I'd been given 0 indication that it was a secret. I apologize for this, but I don't like the way you twist my actions into something that sounds sinister, like the mods are out with a vendetta against vinhaven. It was a simple mistake, to which I am sorry for.

 

Well i dont think we need a rule that states Only 1 Endgrinder is allowed. Ppl just need to use Common sense.

If there is an End grinder up and running, we dont need a second one. Its that simple.

Also the End grinder should always be Pulic, because the End is a rather small part of the map with a limited amount of mobs.

Blocking a part of a small map of from the public is a pretty stupid idea because its always causing drama. We are P not S we have no need for private End grinders, because no one can kill you while you are grinding.

 

Honestly, I don't think the mods/admins should have a say in this in terms of limiting end grinder building, other than the rule stating that builds shouldn't be private, which is enforceable. I disagree that endermen are considered a limited resource. They spawn all across the dimension, and they spawn infinitely. The mob cap is irrelevant in my opinion because of this infinite spawning. The end portal areas are a public resource though for the record. I'd also like to point out, as outlined here: http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/18mmr2/pve11_endgrinder/c8g5nc8

 

that my views are that you cannot "grief" an end grinder by building additional grinders. It is courtesy to limit spawning to one area, but it does not fall under the being a dick rule. I find people are using that rule simply because there isn't anything better to go off of.

 

In regards to XP plumping, I think PvE has enough going for them, but considering how much a waste of time grinding is, I'd be willing to support it. But adding more xp will just mean people grind more. Ever since enchanted books, people grind just for the sake of grinding, so I think it won't matter much even if we plump xp.

 

I would prefer we keep it to one grinder that we all focus on as an agreement, but it isn't binding, and people are allowed to build more if they so choose.

 

Edited for clarity 

[ultrahub]

Hello again everyone. I would like to state that until an official decision can be made about the end and end grinders. I have taken it upon myself to open the Vin/Atlantis grinder to the public. If you find it blocked off again, let me know, I will open it again. If it is blocked, it is not my doing, as I cannot control the actions of the other people who have perms for the area.

 

Now in my opinion, I think a definitive action should be taken. The "Don't be a dick" rule is too vague to cover this very specific topic. Being that the end is it's own realm, with it's own rules and such, I believe that a simple policy concerning the number of grinders  and their access/use should be put in place. This is too much of a grey area, and such extremes such as altering the entire game play of the server are unneeded. A limit on grinders or a rule about their access can be easily enforced. These are just my thoughts, I shall patiently await your decision before taking any more actions.

 

Have a pleasant day.

[princessugly]

I agree with TheRandom on this one. I think people should be able to build whatever they want and that we should support some sort of xp plumping. With that we don't need to have another end grinder built.

[Denevien]

http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/1f5m7p/rule_change_on_pve/