Silversunset01 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 After tonight's staff meeting I thought it would be good to get your input on some of the P policies to help us make them more fair for everyone. The intent is to help us refine some of our policies to make it more fun / less strict while also making sure we stay fair to all players and do not appear to be giving staff any unfair advantages. Post below any suggestions you have for any policies - new, changes, etc. We can't promise anything but the feedback will be helpful for us to make things more fun for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Allow requesting a special region for villager areas with the no-damage flag. It's simple to make and there's no harm in it and it prevents griefing. There's always this frustrating aspect about putting out public villagers, since they can't be restored as they were (instead, we give a random villager in place if killed). I see no negative effects of allowing this flag in specialized areas like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooprm32 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Allow requesting a special region for villager areas with the no-damage flag. It's simple to make and there's no harm in it and it prevents griefing. There's always this frustrating aspect about putting out public villagers, since they can't be restored as they were (instead, we give a random villager in place if killed). I see no negative effects of allowing this flag in specialized areas like this. Villager protections is something I proposed in Rev14, but any suggestion I came up with was shot down by the then Padmin team. I'll bring it up with the others the next chance I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwitchViewz Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Not sure if this falls under policy, but how about giving players access to some more commands? Such as /rg sel, /rg list, /tps, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 One downside to /rg list is that they could potentially find the region name of special spawners (creeper/slime/etc) combined with /rg sel or /rg info to either give coords or outline it. Might not be a problem late game but early game it might ruin some of the fun of finding things that are pre-protected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I thought we'd made a change just recently to allow /rg sel for their own regions? Maybe I am misremembering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Villager protections is something I proposed in Rev14, but any suggestion I came up with was shot down by the then Padmin team. I'll bring it up with the others the next chance I get. I think Sapphric and I were discussing this one night as well. I would be interested in renewing those discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooprm32 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I thought we'd made a change just recently to allow /rg sel for their own regions? Maybe I am misremembering it. We did Not sure if this falls under policy, but how about giving players access to some more commands? Such as /rg sel, /rg list, /tps, etc. As Judge says, /rg list can be abused very easily, and /rg sel from regions owners is a thing already. /tps from what I remember actively takes server resources to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphric Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Allow requesting a special region for villager areas with the no-damage flag. It's simple to make and there's no harm in it and it prevents griefing. There's always this frustrating aspect about putting out public villagers, since they can't be restored as they were (instead, we give a random villager in place if killed). I see no negative effects of allowing this flag in specialized areas like this. I would only want villager protections if it's just preventing damage from players. Environmental and mob kills should still be possible. It IS player vs. environment, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwitchViewz Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I thought we'd made a change just recently to allow /rg sel for their own regions? Maybe I am misremembering it. I remember you guys talking about it, I don't recall if it was ever implemented? I think it might of been, would have to ask a tech. One downside to /rg list is that they could potentially find the region name of special spawners (creeper/slime/etc) combined with /rg sel or /rg info to either give coords or outline it. Might not be a problem late game but early game it might ruin some of the fun of finding things that are pre-protected. Good point, would it be possible so that /rg list would only list the regions they are apart of? Or perhaps a command such as /rg list self ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I would only want villager protections if it's just preventing damage from players. Environmental and mob kills should still be possible. It IS player vs. environment, after all. That I do agree with. I assumed it separates player and mob damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooprm32 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would only want villager protections if it's just preventing damage from players. Environmental and mob kills should still be possible. It IS player vs. environment, after all. That I do agree with. I assumed it separates player and mob damage? I believe tompreuss wrote something up quickly when I was talking to him about this ages ago, that would make villagers immune to only player damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So other than player policies, is there anything in particular that you (as mods) feel that we are being too restrictive with? I know during the meeting protections and grief reqs came up during the staff meeting, I am curious to know everyone's thoughts on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 About handling your own regions and grief modreqs. As such I've never really had a problem with it, since I don't think it's too troublesome and make a modreq and wait for someone to handle it. It comes down more to the reasoning of it and there being a difference between servers. Because the rule only affects P, it just makes it weird. We're not trusted to make our own regions and fix grief on P, but on C it is ok? Sure it's the server admins that make the decision, but as a whole we're a community and mods are chosen to mod both servers, not just one, so such a rule affecting modding in a basic level should be universal to the community, not server specific. What happens between C and P that on P we're suddenly trusted less? My suggestion is that first whatever is decided would be decided for both servers, since it is such a basic mod skill thing and there's really no reason why there should be a difference with this rule on P and C. I understand that makes it a head admin issue and not for padmins to decide. Regions. Regions are not urgent issues and as such I don't see this being a problem for waiting for someone else to do it. However I do think that there's also no reason to not let mods do their own regions, because it comes to the basic trusting of knowing what is protectable. I know there's some issues about this, since around the time I started modding I did run into some weird large city protections that went way below the normal levels and were large areas, made by one of the staff member running the city. This is a problem with those specific staff members though and should be brought up with them when noticed. The main problems come that we don't have a proper guide for protections and different situations in it. Lots of it also depends who gave their P training, since those different opinions go down the line so to speak. Some even say they never had a P training or it was a bit lacking. I've talked about this with Sapphric and some others how even players know other staff members to be more strict than others with protections and that a guide with examples would be a good thing to setup. It wouldn't fully remove the subjectivity of making protections, since you can't 100% cover all situations, but it would lessen the variety of them and give something easy to reference. Currently I've understood that staff can still make the build allow regions within their own town in an already existing region (I base this on the fact that I was allowed to make the BA region to my spleef arena after asking the padmins and they said it's ok) since BA is just another layer of region allowing public harvest or a spleef mechanic to happen. If we don't get the rights to do our own regions as such, I'd still like to see this to be official and in addition to give the rights to do protections for players within your town for item frames and armor stands, since those are very clear cut protections. Grief. Grief is a bit different, since sometimes it prevents the player from playing. Lets say someone griefed crops on your town and you can't roll it back on your own, but there's nobody online to fix it so you just go without until there is. Or if they killed your animals, the same thing. If there's some variety of harshness again, I think it's then more of a issue of the P training. I was told that you get a warning and note for each type of griefing and if repeated it's a ban. If it's probably accidental, just rollback and nothing else. There was someone who suggested during the meeting to reallow these things to for mods to do within their own town as well, but they'd need to do a modreq out of it to leave a trail. I think this is a good idea. Not for padmins to randomly check on them, but to have a reference if a problem is detected. In general I think you should trust your staff and if you find out someone can't be trusted with those rights, then maybe they shouldn't be staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Zomise, I do want to point out as a Sidenote that I am currently working on a "how to moderate on p" document that I think will help with some of the inconsistencies that occur. There is a lot of ground to cover and I also want to make sure that the other padmins are happy with it before I publish anything, but it is in progress and I think it will be useful. Also I have some thoughts on the rest of your post that I will post here later when I'm home and on a real computer. Tiny phone screens do not make it easy to type novels :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I have been thinking about how to reply to this, and I even typed up a lengthy response (which I have just deleted because it came across as extremely defensive). All of my reservations about allowing mods to handle their own protections and grief requests on p boil down to this one point: everything that we do as staff is scrutinized by players. All it would take is one accident or bad day, and if certain players caught wind of it there would be a huge fiasco. Everything comes back to how staff is perceived. Ever since I have been on staff mods have been required to let other mods handle their requests. To me this shows players that staff do not get any additional benefits to being on staff, and that we are all subject to the same rules. I would be wary of changing that dynamic if it gave the impression that staff do not have to follow the same rules and wait for their requests to be handled the same as any other player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ever since I have been on staff mods have been required to let other mods handle their requests. To me this shows players that staff do not get any additional benefits to being on staff, and that we are all subject to the same rules. I would be wary of changing that dynamic if it gave the impression that staff do not have to follow the same rules and wait for their requests to be handled the same as any other player. This is probably the difference between those who started modding before this was placed and those who came after. I actually land right in the middle of the change. Again though, this is not an issue I feel very strongly about. It's more about this rule being different between C and P that makes no sense to me. We are nerd mods, not C or P mods, so this doesn't sit right with me. I'd like to take up specially on the point "if it gave the impression that staff do not have to follow the same rules and wait for their requests to be handled the same as any other player," since I'm not really sure what you mean with this in the context, since even before the rule you always had to do the waiting modreqs before doing your own protections. You would just handle it as any other thing in the queue (even though they weren't actually put in as modreqs). If someone doesn't follow that, then again, it's an issue with that specific staff member. Currently with this rule the off hours staff members are put in a lesser position than normal members, since they can get their modreqs handled in those hours with ease, but for example I have to wait for someone else to show up (this is more of an issue about us not having EU timezone mods, but just pointing it out). If changed so, that mods have to make the normal modreq and then whoever mod comes to it first in the normal order does it, it would be the way other players have it. You did not comment on the others things about the regions inside already made regions and I'd like to hear what you think about those as well. All of my reservations about allowing mods to handle their own protections and grief requests on p boil down to this one point: everything that we do as staff is scrutinized by players. All it would take is one accident or bad day, and if certain players caught wind of it there would be a huge fiasco. Everything comes back to how staff is perceived. While I agree with this point, it is also one that further backs my opinion, that this is a matter about staff powers that should be decided for the whole community. When it comes to PR issues, it's not about one server anymore. In my opinion whatever is decided for this should be a community wide decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KedNys Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 All it would take is one accident or bad day, and if certain players caught wind of it there would be a huge fiasco. Everything comes back to how staff is perceived. Ever since I have been on staff mods have been required to let other mods handle their requests. To me this shows players that staff do not get any additional benefits to being on staff, and that we are all subject to the same rules. I would be wary of changing that dynamic if it gave the impression that staff do not have to follow the same rules and wait for their requests to be handled the same as any other player. WE ALL are subject to the same rules, but to say that staff do not get any additional benefits... well that's a bit of a stretch, I could name a few unintended additional benefits of being on staff but that is not what I am posting about nor the point I intend on making. All this boils down to "Do you trust your mods to follow the rules set in place?" If the answer is "no" then why are they part of the staff? if the answer is "yes" then why not let them self regulate when it comes to regions, we know the rules. Also, if an issue arises (land dispute, claims beyond the scope of what the rules apply or simply protecting areas that should not be protected) the worst case scenario is having another mod look at it and making a small correction. Like I said before, this bunch of people moderating these days really impresses me, there is a certain passion and pride of going thru modreqs with a true sense of urgency, many times a modreq has been filed, I type /modmode and TP to the spot and 1 or 2 mods are already there (even admins!!! back in the day admins almost never did modreqs) so you have plenty of reasons to trust your mods. My message to the admins is this: You have a great group of mature people with a great sense of humor working their butts off to knock those modreqs out of the park and enforce the rules. I am very impressed. That said, I cannot help but think that there are a one or two people here with a bit of a trust issue with the mods and this is a concern. If "cheating" is the goal, moderating and helping out is hardly the way to go. If this regions issue has occurred in the past, just look back and I can guarantee you that it has to be more with the personality flaws of a mod than the group as a whole. So I propose the following: a) Allow and trust moderators to create their own regions and if a situation arises, it doesn't take more than a few seconds to get it sorted out. - - or at the least - - b) Allow moderators to create child regions within their own existing region, no one is getting any extra advantage from this but protections for certain rooms, specific flags on regions, item frame protections and the such are indeed necessary sometimes. Mods would just take a bunch of land and exceed the limits of protections Correct the issue. Send that mod to retraining, like a newbie for not being familiar with the rules. If they cannot be trusted then they shouldn't be a mod. Simple. But mods would do their regions first! Make it a habit: Hey mods, before you start your region creations and/or modifications, simply type /check and knock that list out, leave your own work for last. As staff, we are here to serve, not to be served. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c45y Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Bump for update. We're all staff here, it's not a big deal if I protect a region or someone else does, it's the same rules being enforced. If any form of staff cock it up that's when you can take them aside and discuss what went wrong, but blanket rules like this almost defeat the point of me personally being staff ( so I can get shit done when i'm the only one on ) I haven't been following it - until recently I wasn't even aware of this rule ( our other servers don't make up things like this ) I made a mistake protecting my own build due to not being a "mod" and using worldguard for years now and being super rusty, it was easily corrected and pointed out to me where I had gone wrong ( accidentally extended to bedrock ). There was nothing wrong with that process or how it was handled, I wish that all future interactions could be this relaxed and understanding. tl;dr Make moderq for thing Complete all prior requests as is reasonable Complete own request ??? Profit :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterCommaThe Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Make moderq for thing Complete all prior requests as is reasonable Complete own request ??? Profit I think we could shorten the procedure considerably by removing the first and last steps mentioned and end up with the same value of customer service. 1. is just beaurocratica. (Yes I'm coining that term, copyright MasterCommaThe 2015) As for 5. we wouldn't want to jeopardize our status as a non-profit organization during a tax audit. Have fun, happy holidays! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Staff Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I think we could shorten the procedure considerably by removing the first and last steps mentioned and end up with the same value of customer service. 1. is just beaurocratica. (Yes I'm coining that term, copyright MasterCommaThe 2015) It would be good to remove some beaurocratician dreary server moderating from ourselves. We could argue that by creating modreqs for ourselves, they act as a log for our own actions but we already skip it for our personal flows. Regions have dates and timestamps in them and if ever needed, we can check through logs to find out any further info in regards to region creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversunset01 Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 I do want to put out there that we (padmins) have had some discussions about this topic, we just haven made any announcements yet - worst case scenario look for any changes we've decided when we make the mod-post for next rev. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts