Saving S

[TheKingDuff]

COPIED OVER FROM MY REDDIT POST( http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/1g5cj7/saving_s )

 

: I don't think anyone can deny that S is going downhill, we need to find ways to improve the server and we need people who can put those changes into effect willing to TRY. In a small mumble session we came up with some ideas to try to improve S exponentially:

 

 

 

* Fix lag/ new servers, I'm sure people (including myself) would donate if we knew our money would be used to buy new servers and not anything... wasteful.

2. New admins including tech savy tech admins to properly manage the server, we all know that Tharine is being drowned under admin duties and not only does she need help, but we need someone to help her

3. Set rev start and end dates, a little shorter too. If we knew as the rev started when the rev would start and end there would be a much smaller portion of the population who would leave in the middle of a rev. Having the rev start and end on time may also have something to do with more tech admins.

4. plumped ore. This one I'm not sure on, I don't know if it will make diamonds less rare so people would go out in, or not make it worth it for some broken armour to waste all of your potions

5. Less frequent planned events more spontaneous. This should cut down on the hoarding of materials for planned events such as arena's while increasing spontaneous pvp even if for example an admin chase is planned 6 hours before it happens.

6. Egg minigame. My own personal idea, have an enderdragon egg or some other unique item is placed in the map and plans could capture it. It could only be placed on the surface(nothing could cover it), it would emit a beacon, and perhaps give small advantages to the clan members in the area(this coding would require savy tech admins). It would be like a free for all capture the flag throughout the server.

7. BETTER RULE ENFORCEMENT / more clear rules. There are many rules, mostly based on camping, that need clarification and the amount of people that are let off the hook for combat logging / greifing / other infractions is too damn high. 

 

 

Last but not least advertise. Once we have all of the other problems solved or on their way to being solved we can work on getting more people. Advertising on websites, the minecraft subreddit, and paying for advertisements would all be options.

 

I'd really appreciate if we'd have some good discussion in the comments, most likely getting better ideas then what I have here,  but things need to change. Now. 

 

EDIT: I'll continue to update the reddit post with posts from here and vice versa so post to either.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Duff

[TheKingDuff]

BUCH: 

I know no one ever likes my ideas.
However, I will add my insight: Survival is not fun anymore. That's it. I've been playing multiple servers for the past few weeks before finally joining S again. On these servers, they always had a "Survival" area next to all the extra minigames. The minigames made this server successful, not the survival. The survival area had only 4 people on it, while there were 100's of other folks in the other minigame areas. I even tried to invite most of my friends on there that enjoy the "survival" aspect of Minecraft, and they all said this server is boring because 1. Lag 2. Not enough people 3. Lack of unique plugins.

Every time I attempt to add this kind of insight, this gets down voted. I try to say, "Add factions, possibly add /home and make this server more appealing to the public", but this server has a history. Most of the players here who are regulars don't want this server to change.

Other than that, I will share some of my opinions about the topics mentioned here. Yes, it would be a good idea to advertise this server, as that is how I am here today. I looked up "Good servers" about 2 years ago and found c.nerd.nu on a popular site. What made me stay was the amount of players active during that time, and the fascination of new things being introduced to me. The mods and admins were very helpful (Verros! buddyweed!). Also, Minecraft has changed drastically since this server was first created. Minecraft itself has gotten boring, especially because of effort it takes to advance in this game. I think we need to make things easier to allow players to stay, rather than leave because of boredom (taking away enchants may have been a good idea before, but Minecraft has changed too much to allow that again).

[TheKingDuff]

BUCH: 

I know no one ever likes my ideas.

However, I will add my insight: Survival is not fun anymore. That's it. I've been playing multiple servers for the past few weeks before finally joining S again. On these servers, they always had a "Survival" area next to all the extra minigames. The minigames made this server successful, not the survival. The survival area had only 4 people on it, while there were 100's of other folks in the other minigame areas. I even tried to invite most of my friends on there that enjoy the "survival" aspect of Minecraft, and they all said this server is boring because 1. Lag 2. Not enough people 3. Lack of unique plugins.

Every time I attempt to add this kind of insight, this gets down voted. I try to say, "Add factions, possibly add /home and make this server more appealing to the public", but this server has a history. Most of the players here who are regulars don't want this server to change.

Other than that, I will share some of my opinions about the topics mentioned here. Yes, it would be a good idea to advertise this server, as that is how I am here today. I looked up "Good servers" about 2 years ago and found c.nerd.nu on a popular site. What made me stay was the amount of players active during that time, and the fascination of new things being introduced to me. The mods and admins were very helpful (Verros! buddyweed!). Also, Minecraft has changed drastically since this server was first created. Minecraft itself has gotten boring, especially because of effort it takes to advance in this game. I think we need to make things easier to allow players to stay, rather than leave because of boredom (taking away enchants may have been a good idea before, but Minecraft has changed too much to allow that again).

UNI0:

Not sure what you are talking about about no one liking your ideas, this is a great post, thanks for sharing :) I've been saying we should go to other servers and study what makes them successful. We should learn from them; we don't have to reinvent the wheel. I'd be interested in seeing some of the ones you've been to, pm me.

You are right about the resistance to change from some of the regular players, but a lot of those old players have given up/left survival long time ago. I think it's really up to the admins/head admins to come up with a vision for survival, and experiment with new things, and deviate from vanilla when needed.

[TheKingDuff]

xthehundreds: 

What about not removing all enchantments, just the bullshit ones then there would be less complaining about the fact enchanting armor is so hard to do.

[TheKingDuff]

Tharine:

I've still somehow managed to not wake up fully, but in the absence of me providing a proper comment until then, I only wanted to clarify:

New admins including tech savy tech admins to properly manage the server, we all know that Tharine is being drowned under admin duties and not only does she need help, but we need someone to help her

That draykhar was brought on board as an admin recently (I can't recall how long you've been absent, Duff) and he does a spectacular job for someone still getting his bearings in the role. You probably won't see his efforts immediately because he does a lot of stuff in the background and I end up being the one to put out the posts that come from that (as an example), but we're tackling Survival issues together on a daily basis.

As an insight from someone who spends practically all of their dedicated 'Minecraft time' to working on the servers, i'll let you know that the Survival admins aren't the barricade that's keeping the first two of your points from being resolved, and the rest are just a case of not having enough time in our lives to devote to solving them all as soon as possible. I'll comment back in a bit with some proper responses and i'll include the to-do list i've been working from this past week, to show you guys what it is I have that needs getting done.

[TheKingDuff]

Dragonroosterdog:

what will happen to S if we don't do these things? will have to be shut down or something?

[TheKingDuff]

Dragonroosterdog:

what will happen to S if we don't do these things? will have to be shut down or something?

It will continue to die as it has been doing for a while. Fewer and fewer people will come and eventually no one will come.

[TheKingDuff]

slugfrompluto:

atta boy duff. i knew i liked you for a reason.

[TheKingDuff]

slugfrompluto:

atta boy duff. i knew i liked you for a reason.

 

 

<3

[TheKingDuff]

TornadoHorse:

There are 3 main things that need to be fixed soon if we actually want S to get better; and by soon, I don't mean put them on the bottom of the to-do list, I mean shove them right to the top. Because it's not just me that thinks it, it's the whole S community - as shown in the poll.

Lag. It's been here for ages, everyone complains about, everyone hates it. What's being done? So far as I can tell, nothing. For me, the most obvious thing to do would be to have a donation drive to get the money to go towards funding things that actually need to be fixed.

We also need a bigger player base to try to fix Survival. Advertising is key to getting new players to join, but we actually need to keep them here, and currently, there are many things that would be driving them away. Videos are a good way to stir interest, but not when we're only posting them to our own sites. We need to consider other ideas to advertise, potentially on voting sites. But again, that takes money. Money that we don't have. Do a donation drive, soon.

Staffing on S is a very big problem and a cause for a large portion of the drama. We need staff that actually know what they're looking for when there are accusations of PvP hacks. Anyone can rollback a couple of blocks. Either nominate some people who know how to PvP, or train the staff to so that they know what they should be looking for. It's simple, but just not being done. Another section of staff to look at is the Admins. They're doing well at the moment, and are getting round to sorting out some of the problems on S, but there are currently only 2 active ones. Would it not make more sense to have more to help get the jobs sorted out faster? Imo, any inactive admin should be replaced with another within 2 weeks. It's a position that requires a lot of work, and there is almost always something that needs to be done by them. We don't want the admins quitting because of too much work, we want them to play the game too. Share the workload, rotate the staff.

Rules, another area that needs to be addressed. This is the only thing that I have seen being worked on, so thanks Draykhar and Tharine (and anyone else who helped) but there is still more to be done. Rules need to be enforced better, with a clear punishment if they are breached.

These are the main things that need to be fixed now. It's a long list, but something needs to be done about it. My final point is that things need to have official posts for all to see. Recently in chat, a member of staff said that anyone was able to help with tech stuff, all you need to do is to ask what needs to be done. Now, I've not seen any posts about this anywhere, but surely people are more likely to help if they know what they have to do? I would think it would be pretty simple to put up a post about this on the forums letting people know if there's stuff they can do.

I've not covered everything, there is a huge amount more that needs to be addressed, but for now I think these should be the priorities. We can't think about changing what happens on the maps until the things around it are fixed.

[TheKingDuff]

TornadoHorse:

There are 3 main things that need to be fixed soon if we actually want S to get better; and by soon, I don't mean put them on the bottom of the to-do list, I mean shove them right to the top. Because it's not just me that thinks it, it's the whole S community - as shown in the poll.

Lag. It's been here for ages, everyone complains about, everyone hates it. What's being done? So far as I can tell, nothing. For me, the most obvious thing to do would be to have a donation drive to get the money to go towards funding things that actually need to be fixed.

We also need a bigger player base to try to fix Survival. Advertising is key to getting new players to join, but we actually need to keep them here, and currently, there are many things that would be driving them away. Videos are a good way to stir interest, but not when we're only posting them to our own sites. We need to consider other ideas to advertise, potentially on voting sites. But again, that takes money. Money that we don't have. Do a donation drive, soon.

Staffing on S is a very big problem and a cause for a large portion of the drama. We need staff that actually know what they're looking for when there are accusations of PvP hacks. Anyone can rollback a couple of blocks. Either nominate some people who know how to PvP, or train the staff to so that they know what they should be looking for. It's simple, but just not being done. Another section of staff to look at is the Admins. They're doing well at the moment, and are getting round to sorting out some of the problems on S, but there are currently only 2 active ones. Would it not make more sense to have more to help get the jobs sorted out faster? Imo, any inactive admin should be replaced with another within 2 weeks. It's a position that requires a lot of work, and there is almost always something that needs to be done by them. We don't want the admins quitting because of too much work, we want them to play the game too. Share the workload, rotate the staff.

Rules, another area that needs to be addressed. This is the only thing that I have seen being worked on, so thanks Draykhar and Tharine (and anyone else who helped) but there is still more to be done. Rules need to be enforced better, with a clear punishment if they are breached.

These are the main things that need to be fixed now. It's a long list, but something needs to be done about it. My final point is that things need to have official posts for all to see. Recently in chat, a member of staff said that anyone was able to help with tech stuff, all you need to do is to ask what needs to be done. Now, I've not seen any posts about this anywhere, but surely people are more likely to help if they know what they have to do? I would think it would be pretty simple to put up a post about this on the forums letting people know if there's stuff they can do.

I've not covered everything, there is a huge amount more that needs to be addressed, but for now I think these should be the priorities. We can't think about changing what happens on the maps until the things around it are fixed.

cmdrtebok:

Part of the problem with the staff is the bullshit persecution complex people seen to have and the way they treat the staff. Once someone gets promote you are treated like shit in game an constantly accused of cheating. Not only are you treated like shit by the userbase but you are totally untested by admins too and it feels like a weight around the neck. Not that isnt for good reason either; way too many times we have promote mods only to actually have them cheat or take advantage of something. It gets really unfun really fast an that is why us long timers only play as alts and many others simply stop playing.

[TheKingDuff]

cmdrtebok:

Part of the problem with the staff is the bullshit persecution complex people seen to have and the way they treat the staff. Once someone gets promote you are treated like shit in game an constantly accused of cheating. Not only are you treated like shit by the userbase but you are totally untested by admins too and it feels like a weight around the neck. Not that isnt for good reason either; way too many times we have promote mods only to actually have them cheat or take advantage of something. It gets really unfun really fast an that is why us long timers only play as alts and many others simply stop playing.

Buchanman:

The thing is, on S we have the "big kids" who have been here a long time and want nothing to change. Then we have the "new kids" who join, get killed constantly, and not made welcome. It's like school; no one wants to have a school-like environment on S. We have to be able to welcome them, keep them entertained by adding some things (minigames, plugins; teleportation(?)).

[TheKingDuff]

Buchanman:

The thing is, on S we have the "big kids" who have been here a long time and want nothing to change. Then we have the "new kids" who join, get killed constantly, and not made welcome. It's like school; no one wants to have a school-like environment on S. We have to be able to welcome them, keep them entertained by adding some things (minigames, plugins; teleportation(?)).

Tornadohorse:

I wouldn't say that's the case entirely. It's changing a little bit, there hasn't been a huge amount of dicking about with new players, not that I'm aware of anyway. But yeah, we need to think about moving away from vanilla a bit.

[TheKingDuff]

cmdrtebok:

Can we stop making this same thread every week? There are multiple discussions in the forums about ideas and a million threads where no one agrees. This runs into a massive waste of time.

[TheKingDuff]

cmdrtebok:

Can we stop making this same thread every week? There are multiple discussions in the forums about ideas and a million threads where no one agrees. This runs into a massive waste of time.

pokergeek1234:

The problem with not making the same thread everyweek is we need to keep reminding the playerbase. Also, making issue threads isn't a massive waste of time. If you dislike these threads, don't make comments on/read them.

[TheKingDuff]

cmdrtebok:

Can we stop making this same thread every week? There are multiple discussions in the forums about ideas and a million threads where no one agrees. This runs into a massive waste of time.

yea, when it's fixed.

[TheKingDuff]

Diznatch52:

Regardless of whether or not I agree with you, you might consider that this type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums. There are already a few threads going on about the improvement of S and it would likely be more beneficial for you to contribute your ideas to one of the existing ones than to create a competing thread.

Two examples of these threads are the one about spawn camping, and the one for general changes on survival.

[TheKingDuff]

adsdad:

type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums.

Those forums need to go.

What's the point of the reddit servers even having a seperate forum? It splinters the userbase and their discussions, which makes it a pain in the ass to follow server developments. It's not like reddit doesn't already have a built-in means of public discussion.

[TheKingDuff]

adsdad:

type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums.

Those forums need to go.

What's the point of the reddit servers even having a seperate forum? It splinters the userbase and their discussions, which makes it a pain in the ass to follow server developments. It's not like reddit doesn't already have a built-in means of public discussion.

uni0:

We are reddit server? Why/how? I know we used own the minecraft subreddit; we don't anymore. Should we say we are the reddit server because of some loose historical association to it and stick to this form of communication even though many agree it's not enough, or should we focus on making the best possible servers and using the best communication tools for the job?

[TheKingDuff]

adsdad:

type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums.

Those forums need to go.

What's the point of the reddit servers even having a seperate forum? It splinters the userbase and their discussions, which makes it a pain in the ass to follow server developments. It's not like reddit doesn't already have a built-in means of public discussion.

wickedcoolsteve:

Well, as I see it, part of the problem is with the way reddit works. Even with plenty of upvotes, this post will drop down the mcpublic front page fairly rapidly. Within a few days it won't be on the front page at all. At that point discussion will effectively cease. That's not ideal for a complex subject such as this that would benefit from a longer-term in depth conversation.

In the end, a traditional forum setup is better for certain types of content (ban appeals, server policy) than reddit is.

[TheKingDuff]

adsdad:

type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums.

Those forums need to go.

What's the point of the reddit servers even having a seperate forum? It splinters the userbase and their discussions, which makes it a pain in the ass to follow server developments. It's not like reddit doesn't already have a built-in means of public discussion.

cmdrtebok:

Reddit is absolute shit for sustained conversations. We have had this same thread every week with the same suggestions because it doesn't sit on the main page for more than two days. Furthermore for a discussion nested comments sorted by popularity are probably the worst way to have a meaningful discussion. Not only does it require people responding with the same information in different comment chains but the terrible voting system makes it a useless pissing context where unpopular opinions get buried for no reason. As if that wasn't bad enough too many comments in a chain get hidden never to be read and unaccountable trolls often take over the discussion. Most people in this community don't have the time to constantly follow these circular discussions and many of the people in charge don't have the time to digest it and act before it drops off the front page into obscurity. The forums have far more staying power, are far more organized and have accountability. It is a better platform for discussion which is why it's used by every other community whether they are minecraft or other gaming/online community.

Reddit is little more than a collection of links. From the day they added commenting it has been poorly implemented. Being that reddit is a collection of links you should just link the forum discussion to the subreddit. It would be way better that way. Notice I am one if the only staff members commenting in any if these threads? It's because it's a fucking Sisyphean task.

[TheKingDuff]

cmdrtebok:

Reddit is absolute shit for sustained conversations. We have had this same thread every week with the same suggestions because it doesn't sit on the main page for more than two days. Furthermore for a discussion nested comments sorted by popularity are probably the worst way to have a meaningful discussion. Not only does it require people responding with the same information in different comment chains but the terrible voting system makes it a useless pissing context where unpopular opinions get buried for no reason. As if that wasn't bad enough too many comments in a chain get hidden never to be read and unaccountable trolls often take over the discussion. Most people in this community don't have the time to constantly follow these circular discussions and many of the people in charge don't have the time to digest it and act before it drops off the front page into obscurity. The forums have far more staying power, are far more organized and have accountability. It is a better platform for discussion which is why it's used by every other community whether they are minecraft or other gaming/online community.

Reddit is little more than a collection of links. From the day they added commenting it has been poorly implemented. Being that reddit is a collection of links you should just link the forum discussion to the subreddit. It would be way better that way. Notice I am one if the only staff members commenting in any if these threads? It's because it's a fucking Sisyphean task.

If you see it then why aren't you trying to do anything about it rather then shove it into the new $150 forums that we didn't need. EDIT: that was a tad harsh and uncalled for but it's frustrating that you keep saying you've seen them but there have been no significant changes in a long time.

[TheKingDuff]

If you see it then why aren't you trying to do anything about it rather then shove it into the new $150 forums that we didn't need. EDIT: that was a tad harsh and uncalled for but it's frustrating that you keep saying you've seen them but there have been no significant changes in a long time.

cmdtrebok:

What is it exactly I am supposed to do? Any changes that are made by the admins are met with extreme amounts of displeasure and handwringing. When I was an admin I was likened to hitler (I'm Jewish and old enough to have direct family members who survived the holocaust by the way I really don't appreciate that shit), made fun if. Oh and told on several occasions my ideas were wrong and lead to drama posts about how such and such is leaving the server and who's with me. Even the most minor idea or change is met with obstinate resistance to the point of calcification. Even the suggestion you made about the enchanting was instituted the first time by luke_gardner and met with such unbelievable resistance and pages and pages of text by everyone with an opinion and a shitty attitude he said he lost sleep over it. Let me repeat that because its so absurd it bears repeating; he lost sleep over a video game because a minor tweak/idea for a 2 or 3 month revision was met with extreme derision and drama. He lost the will to try anything again after that and the stopped playing the game all together. I felt the same way before I quit for over a year.

On a pay to win for profit server there is someone in charge who can make decisions and answer to nobody. Here no one is really in charge an every decision you are made to feel like shit about. These kinds if posts every week lead to a general feeling of helplessness too and very quickly becomes impossible to read. Ultimately I have no more power than you do over the server which is to say I have none. I guess id be willing to take a stab at the admin thing again but I would institute drastic changes quickly and not be very open to the pages of drama that would ensue. Maybe that is for the best or maybe that would kill what we have left who knows.

Edit: I'm typing this in my phone and I have stubby fingers please excuse the typos and stuff

[TheKingDuff]

cmdtrebok:

What is it exactly I am supposed to do? Any changes that are made by the admins are met with extreme amounts of displeasure and handwringing. When I was an admin I was likened to hitler (I'm Jewish and old enough to have direct family members who survived the holocaust by the way I really don't appreciate that shit), made fun if. Oh and told on several occasions my ideas were wrong and lead to drama posts about how such and such is leaving the server and who's with me. Even the most minor idea or change is met with obstinate resistance to the point of calcification. Even the suggestion you made about the enchanting was instituted the first time by luke_gardner and met with such unbelievable resistance and pages and pages of text by everyone with an opinion and a shitty attitude he said he lost sleep over it. Let me repeat that because its so absurd it bears repeating; he lost sleep over a video game because a minor tweak/idea for a 2 or 3 month revision was met with extreme derision and drama. He lost the will to try anything again after that and the stopped playing the game all together. I felt the same way before I quit for over a year.

On a pay to win for profit server there is someone in charge who can make decisions and answer to nobody. Here no one is really in charge an every decision you are made to feel like shit about. These kinds if posts every week lead to a general feeling of helplessness too and very quickly becomes impossible to read. Ultimately I have no more power than you do over the server which is to say I have none. I guess id be willing to take a stab at the admin thing again but I would institute drastic changes quickly and not be very open to the pages of drama that would ensue. Maybe that is for the best or maybe that would kill what we have left who knows.

Edit: I'm typing this in my phone and I have stubby fingers please excuse the typos and stuff

You listen, for example no one will blame you for trying things from this post that are supported in the comments, I know I for one and many others would defend you. You can't let the rantings and insults of the people that always want to be angry at something get to you. Earlier this year my Uncle died at the age of 42 due to a birth defect that just became prominent and many jokes were unknowingly very saddening to me. You have to move on, if you just put in your head that you know they're just ignorant and or are just joking and would never mean something like that you have to make your best judgement and not look at only opinion but numbers. If 3 or 4 people send you rage filled drama posts and the rest tell you they're happy or don't complain while numbers for the server go up, that's a good thing. Just try to implement some of these ideas ASAP. Some are fairly straightforward and could easily put in. No one's going to get mad at you for adding a new tech admin if they know what they're doing or for better enforcing the rules. It's just something to think about on how to make the server a better place so if you could discuss with other admins about these ideas and potentially put some in is what I ask of you.

P.S writing at 3:30 am with a 6 hour jetlag so please don't kill my grammar / spelling

[TheKingDuff]

Diznatch52:

Regardless of whether or not I agree with you, you might consider that this type of discussion might be a better fit for the forums. There are already a few threads going on about the improvement of S and it would likely be more beneficial for you to contribute your ideas to one of the existing ones than to create a competing thread.

Two examples of these threads are the one about spawn camping, and the one for general changes on survival.

It needs to happen asap so I'm trying to get it everywhere XD, this subreddit should not be abandoned in favor of the forums I don't think as more people come here