[PvE] Elytra, Elevators, Slime Blocks, and NCP: Thoughts and Suggestions

[OleToothless]

Copied from my subreddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/4js8u1/pve_elytra_elevators_slime_blocks_and_ncp/

 

Hey All,

I suppose I should begin this post by saying that I'm not trying to rock the boat or have a server-wide solution implemented for my personal satisfaction. The issues I raise here are pertinent to all players on PvE and PvP, more so now that both servers are running 1.9 and are entering/have entered new revisions. Additionally, the issues and considerations raised in this post are not "work arounds", quality of life fixes, or content that would make a traditionally complex Minecraft creation become mundane and inconsequential. That said...

With the advent of 1.9 comes the Elytra, possibly the coolest new thing in Minecraft since Alpha. Players are going to want to fly, and players are going to want to build Elytra towers all over the map (see Archelon's post for references) and create a level of Elytra-based infrastructure similar in size and scope to what has previously been done with rails via CARTS/CARBON. These large infrastructure projects bring the community together in both their construction and use as players collaborate to gather materials, plan, and then travel to and from the various towns and builds together. Traveling the map and the way it has always been done in a community fashion on the Nerd.nu servers is part of what makes this a great place to play Minecraft. However, with this new mode of transportation comes a new problem: climbing Elytra towers.

Climbing a ladder from from average ground height of y=70 up to the top of an Elytra tower at y=256 takes approximately 1:40. Water "elevators" are a bit slower. While this doesn't seem like a big deal, and perhaps it is a fair trade-off for the utility of flight. But this is Minecraft, and part of Minecraft is building elaborate structures that mimic both real life and fantasy. Players are going to build minecart systems to more quickly scale their Elytra towers. Then, players are going to want to slim down the transportation package;players are going to want to build elevators.

Elevators work in Vanilla Minecraft. There are multiple types including simple push-out-push-up piston elevators, slime-car elevators, and slime block elevators: all of which work in Vanilla 1.9. NONE of these creations work on Nerd.nu's PvE or PvP servers. There are also several novelty creations such as player and minecart launchers that don't work on Nerd.nu servers. Why don't they work, you ask? The answer to that question is something I've tried to figure out for a while now, as I've built elevators on three revs (and of course none of them work). It was only recently that I figured it out.

It's not latency or lag. That was my first area of inquest, as I figured the functionality of my elevators was hampered by the client-server-client latency that is required when using redstone contraptions that move the player. However, after watching multiple videos and live streams of players on other Minecraft servers build and use elevators and other redstone devices that don't work on our Nerd.nu servers, I ruled that out. I also conducted several tests utilizing my Minecraft Realm, which I actually connect to with DOUBLE the ping that I have when connecting to Nerd.nu: the elevators work on Realms. So on to the next thing...

It is NOT a problem with tick rate. After testing with Silversunset yesterday, I can confirm that it is not tick rate, nor tick-rate expansion that prohibits the functionality of redstone elevators. During the testing the server tick rate at my test rate was consistently between 19 and 20 ticks per second (20 is standard in single player Vanilla). This is not enough to hinder redstone devices. Luckily, Silversunset clued me in to something else... Every time I tried to use my slime block test launcher, she (and the other mods/admins) were getting notices that a server plugging called No Cheat Plus+ (NCP) had identified me as potentially having hacks. This is due to the speed at which the player's character moves, particularly when not connected to a block (ie, flying). This pluggin, NCP, was arresting my character's movement and sending my character model back down to the ground rather than being launched by my slime block launcher.

I contacted Totemo and informed him of the issue. Totemo had me continue to try test launches with my player launcher while he ran a few tests and changed parameters within NCP to allow this type of device to function. No success. I plied Totemo for suggestions and solutions, and this post is the result. Here are some quick facts:

TL;DR: Facts and Issues

1. A pluggin called NCP that stops cheaters from using flyhacks among other things breaks redstone elevators, player launchers, and several other devices.

2. These devices are ALL fully functional and buildable in Vanilla 1.9.

3. Latency, lag, tick rate, and tick rate expansion are not the cause of these devices breaking.

4. Modification of existing config settings in NCP does not resolve the issue.**

This issue is known to bukkit and NCP developers and has been an issue for a long time. It is directly related to the way that NCP records and monitors pistons. See this post for relevant information, including a summary from the devs that this functionality doesn't have an "easy fix" and is something that will be considered in the future (not now): http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/nocheatplus/tickets/364-block-changes-survivalfly-passable-pistons-also-slime/

Here are my two suggestions:

1. Players in our player base that are skilled with coding/programming take a look at NCP's guts and see if there is anything they can do to modify the program until the NCP devs get an official fix. Our tech admins, as awesome as they are, are completely swamped with the new revisions going into place as well as managing the servers as they normally do. They don't have the time to do this, if it even can be done. So I ask that any players that may have the time and skills to take on this task do so. Personally, I don't think this is feasible given the problems laid out by the bukkit team in the post I linked above. So...

2. Include a new Admin-placed block, similar to the Iron Golem Spawners of rev 17. Yeah, I know. Nobody wants to add new blocks. But hear me out!

I think we can all agree that NCP is necessary to prevent cheaters, hackers, and griefers from harassing our server. NCP is REALLY good at that. I wouldn't want to disable the part of NCP that is causing the issue (survivalfly).

NCP IS prohibiting a legitimate part of VANILLA Minecraft. The redstone elevators and devices that are the topic of this post aren't some kind of exploit. They are NORMAL Minecraft creations and I, for one, don't like the fact that a server mod hinders my creativity and enjoyment.

New blocks have been added in the past without issue. They have been added for cosmetic reasons (see podzol, mycelium, double stone slab block, etc), functional reasons (iron golem spawners to decrease villager population issues), and just for fun (doppleganger mod). I see no rational reasoning that this consideration shouldn't be taken seriously.

How would it work?

I personally envision something similar to the current Iron Golem Spawners. Players collect resources and build a framework. A mod request is elevated to an Admin who places the unique block in the player-indicated position after check for (and then deleting) the required "donation". What would that look like? My elevators designs typically cost 2x sticky piston, 6x redstone, 1 repeater, 2 redstone torches, 8 immovable blocks, and one slime block per 5 levels of elevation gain. This would be prohibitively expensive and still make these elevators a "project". An additional benefit would be that the actual pistons and redstone required for either a functional elevator or a minecart system up to sky limit would be in place, reducing server load.

I'll stop this wall of text with this. Obviously this is something I've been thinking about and researching for a while now; I hope that all of you will read, discuss, and consider my suggestion. Thanks for sticking in there and reading,

OleToothless.

TL;DR (for real): We need elevators for Elytra towers. A pluggin called NCP breaks elevators. NCP stops cheaters, so we want NCP. NCP might be fixable to allow elevators, but probably not. As an alternative, what if we had an "elevator block" that we could buy from admins like Iron Golem Spawners?

[jllmprrt]

Do piston translocation elevators work? There are some videos of them on YouTube and they are relatively simple to build in exchange for being a bit more resource intensive, and they don't get a player up to very high speeds.