Forzaire Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) Hello, I was banned from the servers for, "forum ban evasion, abusing services and excessive trolling." I do admit to abusing the forum birthday system, along with "evading" the ban by making an account by the name of "Forziare". I also partly agree that I trolled a bit, both on mumble and on the forums. However, it's quite clear none of this had any impact whatsoever on the Minecraft servers. I understand being banned on mumble or the forums, but I honestly see no reason to be banned from the servers. I cannot change my birthdays on the servers, or "troll under the name of recording bot" (http://i.imgur.com/B8Xdcmk.png) whilst playing on the servers. Mrloud15 banned my alternate forum account for 2x as long as my main account, which was unbanned yesterday. I was already banned from the forums, had stopped making alts, hadn't "trolled" mumble since the Survival Meeting last week, and when I was unbanned from the forums, birthdays were removed from the forums. If all this happened, why was I banned now, a week later almost? I can't "troll" mumble or change my birthday daily anymore anyway, so why bother banning me now, especially on the servers, which had nothing to do with this at all? Thanks, Forzaire Edited May 24, 2014 by Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrloud15 Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 Ban information: Ban for Forzaire on c.nerd.nu for Forum ban evasion, abusing services and excessive trolling. Multiple warnings nerd.nu/appeal by slide23 on 2014-05-24 14:12:48 (no more bans, 2 notes) Please be patient and slide23 will be with you as soon as they can. If no one has attended to your appeal after 48 hours have past, please feel free to BUMP (Bring Up My Post) your appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi, Forzaire, thank you for admitting that you are at fault and for being patient in waiting for a response. So, what started this? You would update your forum profile birthday every day to be that day. What effect did this have? Your name would show up on the homepage under Todays Birthdays and on the calendar on the current day. Why is this bad? Your forum profile contains information about you, if you choose to display it. You have only 1 birthday (does anyone else feel dumber having read that?) By continuously changing your birthday, you were misusing the forums birthday feature. Not only that, but any legitimate birthdays may not show up because yours was taking up their space. People look to the calendar for birthdays to congratulate others, not to be trolled. How did it come to this? 4 warnings, forum ban evasion using 2 alt accounts 'Forziare' and 'abiuv', and numerous instances of 'trolling' (see definition below) which has crossed the line to excessive. The table below documents the events as best I can see. Including you updating your birthday the day this ban was put in place (2014-05-24) which was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. The reason that you are currently banned on the forums, mumble and in minecraft is because of the severity of your blatant disregard for the rules and this community in general. The primary rule you have broken is as follows, which clearly states you may be banned from them all: Excessive trolling in general will not be tolerated and may result in a ban from the forum, mumble, and/or the nerd.nu servers. This includes trolling with your nickname. troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Where do we go from here? You have a history of spamming, griefing, trolling, hacking, racist remarks and ban evading. Why do you think that you deserve to be unbanned, and what ban length would you suggest? Timeline 2014-05-15 12:15AM CDT - Initial report of abusing the forum birthday field (it had been updated on multiple days before this report). 03:54PM CDT - Asked by staff to set a single birthday. http://i.imgur.com/X0LmC49.png 06:41PM CDT - [Forzaire -> Mrloud15] And I'll stop with the birthdays and what not, sorry bout that all. 11:25PM CDT - Staff noticed update to birthday after first warning and apology. Sent a second warning.2014-05-16 10:40PM CDT - Deleted and recreated ‘Forzaire’ account http://i.imgur.com/38R7apW.png - Set birthday to the 16th http://imgur.com/BpgpcU12014-05-17 03:39PM CDT - Account suspended for 5 days for altering birthday again. Also given another warning and explanation as to why the suspension was issued. 05:22PM CDT - Alt account ‘Forziare’ suspended for 2 weeks. 07:36PM CDT - Alt account spelled slightly differently than main account was deleted. “Forziare” 08:50PM CDT - (Channel) Forzaire: Why do the Sadmins hate birthdays? http://i.imgur.com/B2yzeQd.png 09:07PM CDT - (Channel) Forzaire: Its going to be Fourzaire's birthday tomorrow huehuehue 09:08PM CDT - Warned again about ban evading and abusing the forums and that bans would carry over to other services next.17th-22nd - Evaded the forum ban with abiuv http://i.imgur.com/dt8s5xK.png2014-05-18 - Mumble comment http://imgur.com/YIPIQyt2014-05-23 07:55PM CDT - Racism - Line #19 http://paste.thezomg.com/14092/68006140/ 08:00PM CDT - Admits to evading ban via new ip - Line #29 of paste above2014-05-24 - Changed birthday to 2014-05-24 http://i.imgur.com/DTfmna6.png 12:13PM CDT - Forum birthdays were disabled 02:03PM CDT - Trolling forums with post https://nerd.nu/forums/index.php?/topic/2114-birthdays-on-the-forums/2014-05-25 01:09PM CDT - Evaded mumble ban using account ‘Abiuv-’ Forzaire notes Note #36742 for Forzaire on c.nerd.nu: Warned for command spam. by mrloud15 on 2014-03-23 18:45:05 Note #36861 for Forzaire on c.nerd.nu: Warned for team griefing obsidian generator by mrloud15 on 2014-04-03 15:20:38 Abiuv past bans July 2013 harassment August 2013 fly hacking on S April 2013 chat spam March 2013 wasting moderator's time and resources January 2013 xray Abiuv notes Note #26132 for abiuv for combat logging on s on 2012-12-25 20:29:30 by brianherman Note #26335 for abiuv for minor griefing on s, user warned on 2012-12-29 16:14:38 by uni0 Note #28302 for abiuv for 2012-02-19: more minor grief on S - cauldron on 2013-02-19 21:41:50 by totemo Note #28738 for abiuv for Warned for logging to avoid pvp encounter on 2013-03-03 00:31:03 by Tharine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forzaire Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) Hey slide23, thanks for responding. I'd like to begin by saying how ridiculous it is that this situation has come this far. It has gone from a minor infraction involving my birthday on the forums to an unnecessary ban on the forums, mumble, and the servers. It's quite clear that you gathered as much information against me as you could for this appeal. This is shown especially by the fact that you've brought up past bans completely irrelevant to this situation and by the fact that you've unnecessarily doxxed an alt that I've obviously kept private for reasons. Next, I'd like to take the time to go through your "timeline" and presented information in hopes of explaining and delivering my side of the story. Where do we go from here? You have a history of spamming, griefing, trolling, hacking, racist remarks and ban evading. Why do you think that you deserve to be unbanned, and what ban length would you suggest? I'd like to point out that the events pertaining to this appeal should not be considered a part of my "history" on MCPublic. Prior to this appeal I have never been racist, evaded any bans, or griefed (for the most part). Spamming - I have admittedly only "spammed" once. This incident involved me typing the command "/pl" 7 times in chat and receiving a note for it. Griefing - I do admit to griefing in December 2012, when I had first joined the servers and was new to Minecraft on PC. My second note for griefing was (I think) a misunderstanding. I had been trying to use a witch grinder near Egreth and broke the cauldron trying to work it, I myself modreq'd it and stood there for an hour waiting, as I was still unaware of how modreqs work. Trolling - I also admit to "trolling" on both mumble and the chat on the servers occasionally in the past (however, nothing that warrants a note or ban). Hacking - The only time on MCPublic that I have ever hacked has been in January 2013. I xrayed for an hour and was promptly banned by draykhar. The "incident" that occurred in August 2013 was proven to be a misunderstanding with no proof convicting me and I was unbanned by buzzinbee in under 2 and a half hours. Racist Remarks - I deny ever being racist on the MCPublic servers, forums, or mumble. I have never said anything racist in a hostile or harmful manner ever. I do however admit to saying "nigga" in chat a few times. However, it is obvious that in the context it was said I did not say this to be hateful or offend anyone. Everyone in the channel or who I was speaking with knew this and I highly doubt I offended a single person. Ban evading - Prior to this event, I have never evaded a single ban, despite being banned quite a few times. The "evading" that has occurred is the first I have ever done, and actually involves a bit of a misunderstanding (described in a later point of this appeal). I think I deserve to be unbanned simply because this is an overly dramatized situation that I honestly think has only taken place because I've upset a few moderators and admins. Honestly, this should never have been blown up beyond the forums ban and birthday incident. Had any of the other parts of this mattered, I should have been banned for them prior to this, I don't believe I started doing all of this the second I started changing my birthdays. Next, I think the ban length should either involve myself being unbanned now or for a few days at most. I think this simply because, once again, I feel this is extremely over dramatized. Moving on. Timeline: I've decided to break this up by day in order to avoid a wall of text. May 15th, 2014 - 2014-05-15 12:15AM CDT - Initial report of abusing the forum birthday field (it had been updated on multiple days before this report). 03:54PM CDT - Asked by staff to set a single birthday. http://i.imgur.com/X0LmC49.png 06:41PM CDT - [Forzaire -> Mrloud15] And I'll stop with the birthdays and what not, sorry bout that all. 11:25PM CDT - Staff noticed update to birthday after first warning and apology. Sent a second warning. The fact that I began changing my birthday is true, as is the fact that I apologized to Mrloud15, only to start changing it again shortly after. May 16th, 2014 - 2014-05-16 10:40PM CDT - Deleted and recreated ‘Forzaire’ account http://i.imgur.com/38R7apW.png - Set birthday to the 16th http://imgur.com/BpgpcU1 I'm unsure of what's meant by, "Deleted and recreated 'Forzaire' account'. I do admit to changing my birthday again. May 17th, 2014 - 2014-05-17 03:39PM CDT - Account suspended for 5 days for altering birthday again. Also given another warning and explanation as to why the suspension was issued. 05:22PM CDT - Alt account ‘Forziare’ suspended for 2 weeks. 07:36PM CDT - Alt account spelled slightly differently than main account was deleted. “Forziare” 08:50PM CDT - (Channel) Forzaire: Why do the Sadmins hate birthdays? http://i.imgur.com/B2yzeQd.png 09:07PM CDT - (Channel) Forzaire: Its going to be Fourzaire's birthday tomorrow huehuehue 09:08PM CDT - Warned again about ban evading and abusing the forums and that bans would carry over to other services next. My account was suspended, as was the alternate account I created, "Forzaire." I also do admit that I joked in mumble about creating yet another account, although it's clear I had no intentions of doing so, or I would have. May 17th-22nd, 2014 - Evaded the forum ban with abiuv http://i.imgur.com/dt8s5xK.png It is true that I "evaded" my ban under another alternate account, however, is it necessary to reveal what my alt was? Whenever other players or accounts are mentioned, their names are redacted, why was this not the case here? I quite obviously chose to not have it be publicly known by other players. - Mumble comment http://imgur.com/YIPIQyt I really see no reason to bring this up, how does my mumble comment, which in this case, was of a polar bear wearing a birthday hat pertain to this appeal at all? May 23rd, 2014 - 2014-05-23 07:55PM CDT - Racism - Line #19 http://paste.thezomg...14092/68006140/ 08:00PM CDT - Admits to evading ban via new ip - Line #29 of paste above The "racism" displayed here is quite clearly not racism at all, I thought you'd know this, considering you have complete access to this conversation. The context surrounding this is that I was telling the player that I thought I had been banned from mumble for saying the word, "nigga" multiple times. I did not call this player a "nigga" or say anything hateful to black people, so how is this racism? Is the word "gay" simply homophobic, I really don't understand this part of the appeal. Next, I was shown to be "[admitting] to evading [the] ban via a new IP." Again, this "confession" you have on me relies heavily on context. When this conversation occurred, I was unable to connect to the mumble servers while having my IP set normally. I discovered that by changing it and making a new certificate (obviously had to make a new name as well) I could connect again. The thought had passed my mind that I might have been banned, but I was receiving a message saying "The remote host closed the connection," not a message saying "Banned: (Ban reason)" or anything that I would expect after being banned. The conversation you fail to include is me messaging Mumberthrax, a Survival Admin, and asking if I had been banned from mumble. I was told by Mumberthrax that I was not banned, however, my account of "RecodingBot" had been banned during the survival meeting, a week earlier. I'd assume after an admin has told me I'm not banned, using a new IP and name to fix what I thought was a connection problem would not be any problem. May 24th, 2014 - 2014-05-24 - Changed birthday to 2014-05-24 http://i.imgur.com/DTfmna6.png 12:13PM CDT - Forum birthdays were disabled 02:03PM CDT - Trolling forums with post https://nerd.nu/foru...-on-the-forums/ It is shown here that I still continued to change my birthday, along with the fact that I inquired about why birthdays had been disabled. This post, while partially a troll post, was also somewhat legitimate. I had heard in mumble that a player (I'll actually keep their name private, take notes) had asked an admin about this and was told that the constant changing of birthdays by myself was only a part of this. May 25th, 2014 - Today. 2014-05-25 01:09PM CDT - Evaded mumble ban using account ‘Abiuv-’ For the better part of today I have been away from my home, and through that, my PC, so I again had no idea I had been banned from mumble. When trying to access mumble via a mobile app, I was told that I needed a password to connect with my account, I found this perfectly understandable as the account was certified on my main PC at home. I then decided to connect under the alias of my alternate account as I did not want a bunch of accounts related to "Forzaire" (Forzaire, Forziare, PolarBearSwagz) and the people I'd be talking to already knew my alternate accounts. I soon disconnected after I realized I'd be unable to hear those in the channel without broadcasting their voices out loud, which posed a problem in public. So, basically, both of these mumble "ban evasions" were both technically misunderstandings, due to misunderstandings, incorrect information from admins, the lack of a proper "banned" message, and the fact that I accidentally "evaded" my ban from a mobile device. Past Bans and Notes: I feel I've explained this thoroughly above by stating how I feel bringing these past bans and notes up (most of which are completely irrelevant to this appeal) is completely unnecessary and is quite obviously an attempt to discredit me in this appeal. Closing: I'll wrap this reply up by just summarizing what I've typed in a few sentences, a tl;dr if you would. I feel this entire situation had been blow out of proportion greatly and has been overly dramatized as a result of a few admins and moderators becoming upset. To start, this incident is involved with Mrloud15 for the most part, so I have no idea why slide23 is handling this. Next, slide23 has presented evidence that I have changed my birthday daily and used an alternate forums account to continue it after being banned by Mrloud15. I honestly feel this is the only major offense I've committed here. The rest of the information (private chat logs, past bans/notes, alternate Minecraft accounts) has obviously been gathered by slide23 to discredit me and further dramatize this situation. This entire ban can be blamed on misunderstandings, sloppy moderating, and (I believe) some staff members having hurt feelings. Had this been dealt with properly, I should have been banned from the forums permanently had I made another alternate account for birthdays, I should have had my birthday privileges taken away (as I see slide23 is clearly able to do this), and I should have been warned about the "racism" and "evading" I had so obviously been harming MCPublic with. I was never warned about these evasions in mumble or about my use of "nigga". The first I heard that I was actually banned from mumble was when slide23 entered the channel last night and said quite bluntly how I was "going to get banned" for "ban evasion", which I assume I was banned for shortly after, as I left mumble after making my appeal. To end this, I'll just say once again how unnecessary this entire situation is and how poorly I feel it has been handled, with the main admin(s) involved not even dealing with this themselves and the use of outside information in order discredit me during this appeal. I feel if I am to even have a ban period, it should be short and for what I actually admit to doing through out this entire event - changing my birthday on an online forum on 2 accounts and "evading" a mumble ban despite being told I had not been banned. I do admit to being in the wrong in some parts of this appeal, however, the admins and staff involved in this can also be held responsible for how this has advanced and ended up. I do not claim to be entirely innocent in this appeal, but honestly, changing a birthday is not a major, bannable offense. There is no reason for this to have turned into a ban and forum appeal. I'd like to thank you for your time, -Forzaire Edited May 26, 2014 by Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forzaire Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 48 hour bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 So I think I’ll start with what I consider the most relevant piece of that reply, your signature -Forzaire, Polar Bear and Birthday Rights Activist http://puu.sh/8Qkvo If you wanted me to take your appeal seriously, not continuing the trollish behavior that got you here in the first place would have been a good start. I do see that you have now removed it, but why was it needed in the first place? I'd like to begin by saying how ridiculous it is that this situation has come this far. It has gone from a minor infraction involving my birthday on the forums to an unnecessary ban on the forums, mumble, and the servers. I completely agree that this has gone way too far. However, at every step in this we’ve presented you with a line and said, at first, please don’t cross this line. You proceeded to step over it and we drew another line and more forcefully said, do not step over this line. Again, you ignored our warnings. The one and only reason we are here, is because you ignored numerous warnings and stepped over the line one too many times. It's quite clear that you gathered as much information against me as you could for this appeal. Should appeals not be handled diligently and thoroughly? If I were on the receiving end of a ban I’d prefer knowing that things were looked into as much as possible before a decision was made. This is shown especially by the fact that you've brought up past bans completely irrelevant to this situation and by the fact that you've unnecessarily doxxed an alt that I've obviously kept private for reasons. Your ban and appeal is not tied to your current name, it is tied to you and your past actions are a part of you. Your alts were included here because they became relevant to this ban when you used them to evade. The fact that I began changing my birthday is true, as is the fact that I apologized to Mrloud15, only to start changing it again shortly after. I'm unsure of what's meant by, "Deleted and recreated 'Forzaire' account'. I do admit to changing my birthday again. It is true that I "evaded" my ban under another alternate account, however, is it necessary to reveal what my alt was? Whenever other players or accounts are mentioned, their names are redacted, why was this not the case here? I quite obviously chose to not have it be publicly known by other players. I really see no reason to bring this up, how does my mumble comment, which in this case, was of a polar bear wearing a birthday hat pertain to this appeal at all? It helps to show the pattern of trolling. The "racism" displayed here is quite clearly not racism at all, I thought you'd know this, considering you have complete access to this conversation. The context surrounding this is that I was telling the player that I thought I had been banned from mumble for saying the word, "nigga" multiple times. I did not call this player a "nigga" or say anything hateful to black people, so how is this racism? Is the word "gay" simply homophobic, I really don't understand this part of the appeal.Maybe it’s just where I’m from, but I've heard numerous people say racist things and then say, oh it’s not REALLY racist because i didn't mean it. “Gay” has a legitimate definition and use and is not always homophobic, “nigga” on the other hand has no meaning other than in a racist connotation. Next, I was shown to be "[admitting] to evading [the] ban via a new IP." Again, this "confession" you have on me relies heavily on context. When this conversation occurred, I was unable to connect to the mumble servers while having my IP set normally. I discovered that by changing it and making a new certificate (obviously had to make a new name as well) I could connect again. The thought had passed my mind that I might have been banned, but I was receiving a message saying "The remote host closed the connection," not a message saying "Banned: (Ban reason)" or anything that I would expect after being banned.Unfortunately it’s a limitation in Mumble that you are not presented with a ban message. The fact that you thought you were banned AND had to create a new IP AND a new cert/username to get connected should have thrown some red flags up. The conversation you fail to include is me messaging Mumberthrax, a Survival Admin, and asking if I had been banned from mumble. I was told by Mumberthrax that I was not banned, however, my account of "RecodingBot" had been banned during the survival meeting, a week earlier. I'd assume after an admin has told me I'm not banned, using a new IP and name to fix what I thought was a connection problem would not be any problem.I’ll grant you the last statement, however that was still AFTER evading. Had you gone immediately to staff this wouldn’t even have been mentioned. It is shown here that I still continued to change my birthday, along with the fact that I inquired about why birthdays had been disabled. This post, while partially a troll post, was also somewhat legitimate. I had heard in mumble that a player (I'll actually keep their name private, take notes) had asked an admin about this and was told that the constant changing of birthdays by myself was only a part of this. For the better part of today I have been away from my home, and through that, my PC, so I again had no idea I had been banned from mumble. When trying to access mumble via a mobile app, I was told that I needed a password to connect with my account, I found this perfectly understandable as the account was certified on my main PC at home. I then decided to connect under the alias of my alternate account as I did not want a bunch of accounts related to "Forzaire" (Forzaire, Forziare, PolarBearSwagz) and the people I'd be talking to already knew my alternate accounts. I soon disconnected after I realized I'd be unable to hear those in the channel without broadcasting their voices out loud, which posed a problem in public. I’ll quote your tl;dr to refute this. The first I heard that I was actually banned from mumble was when slide23 entered the channel last night and said quite bluntly how I was "going to get banned" for "ban evasion", which I assume I was banned for shortly after, as I left mumble after making my appeal. I came into mumble to see if you were still on to actually issue the mumble ban. I attempted to politely ask if you (as PolarBearSwagz) were in fact ‘Forzaire’. I was not 100% sure it was you, as neither you, nor your friends would give a non-trollish response. I then issued the warning that if you were in fact still on, it would become evading. So, basically, both of these mumble "ban evasions" were both technically misunderstandings, due to misunderstandings, incorrect information from admins, the lack of a proper "banned" message, and the fact that I accidentally "evaded" my ban from a mobile device. Neither were misunderstandings. You knew full well that you were banned in both instances. I feel I've explained this thoroughly above by stating how I feel bringing these past bans and notes up (most of which are completely irrelevant to this appeal) is completely unnecessary and is quite obviously an attempt to discredit me in this appeal. Your past actions show your character and are relevant to any bans and the ban lengths that go with them. It’s your own actions that have discredited you, not me displaying them here. I feel this entire situation had been blow out of proportion greatly and has been overly dramatized as a result of a few admins and moderators becoming upset. It’s sad how little you think of the feelings of others. To start, this incident is involved with Mrloud15 for the most part, so I have no idea why slide23 is handling this. I’m handling this because I’m tired of the way some people treat staff. You don’t have to like us, you don’t even have to respect us. But you will follow the rules or else be banned. It’s as simple as that. I should have had my birthday privileges taken away (as I see slide23 is clearly able to do this) I shouldn't have needed to implement this. It took time out of my life and is truly an unnecessary modification to the forum software. Closing: I’m tired…. of the trolling, of the rule lawyering. Just be respectful of others, is it that hard? The changing the birthdays is almost the most irrelevant thing about this. You simply continued to cross the line each time it was drawn. Showing that you either don’t care about, or are actively trying to disrupt the community. The following ban lengths will apply: Forum: 3 months Mumble: 1 month Minecraft: 2 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forzaire Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) Hello again, slide23 I suppose I'll use this reply as my rebuttal. As before, I'll just quote what you typed and offer my reply. So I think I’ll start with what I consider the most relevant piece of that reply, your signature Of all that I typed above, are you saying that my signature is the most relevant piece? I completely agree that this has gone way too far. However, at every step in this we’ve presented you with a line and said, at first, please don’t cross this line. You proceeded to step over it and we drew another line and more forcefully said, do not step over this line. Again, you ignored our warnings. The one and only reason we are here, is because you ignored numerous warnings and stepped over the line one too many times. May I ask what these numerous warnings were? I was warned once by Mrloud15 via forum private message. The next warning I received was in Mumble a few moments before I was banned. Should appeals not be handled diligently and thoroughly? If I were on the receiving end of a ban I’d prefer knowing that things were looked into as much as possible before a decision was made. I do agree that bans should be "handled diligently and thoroughly," however, it is obvious you pulled as much information as you could. Had you not added the past notes and bans, it'd be much clearer that this ban was foolish and the result of a very minor offence. It helps to show the pattern of trolling. The changing of my mumble comment is hardly trolling. My mumble comment does not appear on the main forum page or anything of that sort, as birthdays do. To view my comment, you'd have to choose to hover over it. I changed it to a polar bear with a hat for fun, not to "troll". Maybe it’s just where I’m from, but I've heard numerous people say racist things and then say, oh it’s not REALLY racist because i didn't mean it. “Gay” has a legitimate definition and use and is not always homophobic, “nigga” on the other hand has no meaning other than in a racist connotation. I understand this slide, but it's obvious in the context (of which you have unrestricted access to), that I have never been racist. To help you gain better knowledge of racism, I'll post the definition for you. : poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race : the belief that some races of people are better than others From what was said in the pastebin you provided, I said "1 nigga 2 many," referring to why I assumed I was banned. Did I say that any race was better than black? Did I condone violence or poor treatment of black people? The use of the word "nigga" is hardly racist in this case. I did not say anything hateful about black people or even use the word "nigger". I did not say something racist then defend myself with "oh it's not REALLY racist because I didn't mean it". Due to this, I don't really see any reason to state I said anything racist when it is quite obvious I have never been racist on the servers, forums, or mumble. I’ll grant you the last statement, however that was still AFTER evading. Had you gone immediately to staff this wouldn’t even have been mentioned. I did try to contact staff, I checked as soon as I was finished speaking with the player mentioned above. However, I could not find an admin on Survival (suprise!) and continued assuming it was a connection issue. Why would I knowingly evade my ban and THEN contact an admin/staff member? I came into mumble to see if you were still on to actually issue the mumble ban. I attempted to politely ask if you (as PolarBearSwagz) were in fact ‘Forzaire’. I was not 100% sure it was you, as neither you, nor your friends would give a non-trollish response. I then issued the warning that if you were in fact still on, it would become evading. When you joined the mumble channel you simply said hello, asked if I was Forzaire, and then said how I was going to be banned for evasion. Shortly after you joined, you moved to "Admin and Mod Discussion" with another moderator who was in the channel with me prior to this (and for some reason didn't notice I had been banned). Upon returning, this moderator informed me that I had been banned. If this counts as a warning, it's a useless one. Why would I be warned if I was already going to be banned minutes later? Neither were misunderstandings. You knew full well that you were banned in both instances. I feel I've already explained myself here. It’s sad how little you think of the feelings of others. How does this display my feelings to others? I didn't post anything criticizing the staff or expressing how I feel about them anywhere in my post. I simply stated how I feel this IS the result of a small portion of the staff becoming upset over someone changing their birthday. Had these staff members not become upset during this, I highly doubt I'd be banned for this incredibly silly "offense". I’m handling this because I’m tired of the way some people treat staff. You don’t have to like us, you don’t even have to respect us. But you will follow the rules or else be banned. It’s as simple as that. Once again, I have never said dislike staff or that I don't respect them. I'm curious as to where you are pulling this out of. I do very much like some staff members, however, naturally, I dislike some too. I don't recall ever disrespecting a staff member, unless you mean that by changing my birthday daily I offended a significant portion of staff. I shouldn't have needed to implement this. It took time out of my life and is truly an unnecessary modification to the forum software. Closing: I’m tired…. of the trolling, of the rule lawyering. Just be respectful of others, is it that hard? The changing the birthdays is almost the most irrelevant thing about this. You simply continued to cross the line each time it was drawn. Showing that you either don’t care about, or are actively trying to disrupt the community. The following ban lengths will apply: Forum: 3 months Mumble: 1 month Minecraft: 2 weeks I don't even know where to begin with this part. To start, you don't HAVE to deal with this "trolling", you could have either asked another staff member, preferably one actually involved in this (Mumberthrax, Mrloud15), or just not banned someone for such a ridiculous reason. I never contacted you prior to this or targeted you, so this "trolling" would only affect you as much as it would everyone else, and in this case, that's not much of an impact on you. I do not "cross the line each time", I've already explained how I only recall being warned once via PM prior to being banned. How am I showing that I don't care about this? Had I not cared about this ban, I'd not have taken the time out of my day to appeal and write all of this. I understand changing my birthday my birthday can "disrupt the community," however, could you have not just removed my birthday privileges to start with? I understand it can take time out of your day, but surely being a Tech Admin comes with it's responsibilities. Now, onto my favorite part here - the bans. The forum ban is set for 3 months. This is for some reason the longest, although it's the most useless. I rarely post on the forums and this could easily be evaded by simply logging out and reading posts from there. The Mumble ban is set for 1 month. Is this do to the "ban evading" I committed during the past few days? If not, I see no reason for this as the incident I'm banned for occurred on the Forums. The Minecraft ban is currently set for 2 weeks. This ban length is the part I find completely foolish and unneeded. Literally nothing involving this post occurred on Minecraft, so why am I banned on there in the first place? Is MCPublic's moderation really this bad lately (I've seen someone banned for a year for simply shooting an arrow in a portal)? There is no reason I can think of that would justify banning me from Minecraft. Is it just to completely ban me from all of MCPublic's services or is this just another consequence of upsetting a few admins? I'd prefer if the ban lengths are shortened (or even removed) as this ban is almost laughable. I changed my birthday on the forums and you've now caused this to progress to a point where I'm facing a ban on 3 different things, 2 of which are either very loosely connected to this or not associated with this at all. I really don't know why I've even replied to this or why I'm even bothering arguing with MCPublic's staff. The servers can complain they're losing players and gradually dying, yet drive players away with ridiculous bans and policies. Once again, thanks Forzaire Edited May 30, 2014 by Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiuv Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) Just to add, I'd appreciate it if I wasn't banned from the forums until after this appeal has been settled, considering I can't reply to my own appeal now. Edited May 29, 2014 by Abiuv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Of all that I typed above, are you saying that my signature is the most relevant piece? Your signature showed that you were still trolling, which is the reason this ban was issued. May I ask what these numerous warnings were? I was warned once by Mrloud15 via forum private message. The next warning I received was in Mumble a few moments before I was banned. There were at least 5 separate warnings: Initial warning by Mrloud Second warning after continuing to change birthday Account suspended Alt account suspended/banned Me warning you in the Survival Mumble Meeting I do agree that bans should be "handled diligently and thoroughly," however, it is obvious you pulled as much information as you could. Had you not added the past notes and bans, it'd be much clearer that this ban was foolish and the result of a very minor offence. Past bans and notes are brought up for nearly every ban, so no exception was made for yours. The changing of my mumble comment is hardly trolling. My mumble comment does not appear on the main forum page or anything of that sort, as birthdays do. To view my comment, you'd have to choose to hover over it. I changed it to a polar bear with a hat for fun, not to "troll". The changing of your mumble comment alone, is not trolling, but as part of all the rest of your behavior, was. I understand this slide, but it's obvious in the context (of which you have unrestricted access to), that I have never been racist. To help you gain better knowledge of racism, I'll post the definition for you. ..... I'll quote wikipedia in regard to 'Nigga' which should end the debate on this matter. There is conflicting popular opinion on whether there is any meaningful difference between nigga and nigger as a spoken term.[8] Many people consider the terms to be equally pejorative, and the use of nigga both in and outside African American communities remains controversial. I did try to contact staff, I checked as soon as I was finished speaking with the player mentioned above. However, I could not find an admin on Survival (suprise!) and continued assuming it was a connection issue. 2014-05-23 19:55:02 | [Forzaire -> player] I think I was banned from da mumble 2014-05-23 20:00:01 | [Forzaire -> player] hab change ip to different location, such undercover now 2014-05-23 20:00:10 | [Forzaire -> player] beat da system 2014-05-23 20:05:49 | [Forzaire -> Mumberthrax] I was wondering if I was banned from mumble or anything?, because I can't caonnect to it, but I 2014-05-23 20:05:55 | [Forzaire -> Mumberthrax] can connect to every other server You clearly stated that you had already changed your ip to get on mumble before talking to staff. Why would I knowingly evade my ban and THEN contact an admin/staff member? 2014-05-23 19:56:05 | [Forzaire -> player] dun wanna make an appeal and theyre like "lol ur not even banned scrub"How does this display my feelings to others? I didn't post anything criticizing the staff or expressing how I feel about them anywhere in my post. I simply stated how I feel this IS the result of a small portion of the staff becoming upset over someone changing their birthday. Had these staff members not become upset during this, I highly doubt I'd be banned for this incredibly silly "offense". This ban was not issued because staff were 'upset', nor was it issued because you changed your birthday. It was issued because of your refusal to follow the rules. This entire situation would have gone no further had you done what you said and stopped. Every step we've taken has been only in response to an action of yours. In regard to me handling this ban. I was in constant contact with all the directly involved staff and each of my responses has been vetted and approved by most of the admin team. You would be receiving similar responses from other admins had I not issued the ban myself. The forum ban is set for 3 months. This is for some reason the longest, although it's the most useless. I rarely post on the forums and this could easily be evaded by simply logging out and reading posts from there. You are free to read the forums at your leisure, you simply can't be an active participant for the time being. The Mumble ban is set for 1 month. Is this do to the "ban evading" I committed during the past few days? If not, I see no reason for this as the incident I'm banned for occurred on the Forums. The Minecraft ban is currently set for 2 weeks. This ban length is the part I find completely foolish and unneeded. Literally nothing involving this post occurred on Minecraft, so why am I banned on there in the first place? Is MCPublic's moderation really this bad lately (I've seen someone banned for a year for simply shooting an arrow in a portal)? There is no reason I can think of that would justify banning me from Minecraft. Is it just to completely ban me from all of MCPublic's services or is this just another consequence of upsetting a few admins? I'm not really sure where this notion came from that if you are banned from one service you can't and won't be banned from any of the others. In fact, the trolling rule specifically states that you can be banned from the other services. The reason the bans have moved to in game is because you obviously feel the forum ban to be so inconsequential as to disregard it entirely (evading it). I really don't know why I've even replied to this or why I'm even bothering arguing with MCPublic's staff. Maybe arguing isn't the best approach? Early on we opened a polite line of communication in hopes to resolve all this amicably. 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Forzaire Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hey again, slide23 Just gonna jump into this. Your signature showed that you were still trolling, which is the reason this ban was issued. I added that into my signature simply to add a bit of fun to my appeal and not have it look anymore like a cringey argument. I did however remove it a few minutes so my post would be taken seriously. There were at least 5 separate warnings: Initial warning by Mrloud Second warning after continuing to change birthday Account suspended Alt account suspended/banned Me warning you in the Survival Mumble Meeting I personally only received the initial warning by Mrloud15 and your "warning" right before being banned. When being banned/suspended from the forums I simply received a message saying my account had been suspended and when it would end. (http://puu.sh/8QdE0) I also don't recall being warned during the survival meeting, though I could have just not seen it. The changing of your mumble comment alone, is not trolling, but as part of all the rest of your behavior, was. Yes, but viewing my mumble comment is a choice, and the last time I checked, there was no restriction on what could be in your mumble comment (obviously besides NSFW or inappropriate things). I didn't send a picture of my mumble comment to you or the other staff, or forced you to view it as my birthdays did. If this is the case, why bother bringing in a harmless picture of a polar bear wearing a hat into this? It's clearly not an attempt to "troll" any players or staff, rather it is me having fun with my mumble comment. I'll quote wikipedia in regard to 'Nigga' which should end the debate on this matter. I still find your argument here interesting. You claim I was racist (obviously to add you your side, I'm sure), when every piece of context showing my "racism" in chat has been explained and "debunked" by me. I agree use of the term "nigger" is racist in almost every case, "nigga" in this case however, is not. 2014-05-23 19:55:02 | [Forzaire -> player] I think I was banned from da mumble 2014-05-23 20:00:01 | [Forzaire -> player] hab change ip to different location, such undercover now 2014-05-23 20:00:10 | [Forzaire -> player] beat da system 2014-05-23 20:05:49 | [Forzaire -> Mumberthrax] I was wondering if I was banned from mumble or anything?, because I can't caonnect to it, but I 2014-05-23 20:05:55 | [Forzaire -> Mumberthrax] can connect to every other server You're simply supporting my claim here. I said earlier I attempted to contact staff after speaking with the "player". I claimed a few reply above that I thought that I had been banned, but that I also assumed it was a mumble connection problem. I told this to the player in the conversation you provided above. Although I see the pieces you posted can appear to convict me when taken out of context. "I think I was banned from da mumble" - I told the player I had thought I might have been banned from mumble. "hab to change ip to different location, such undercover now" - I told the player how I fixed it, although I did not claim to be "undercover" from the staff on mumble, but rather the players. By this, I mean that by making a new mumble account (as I couldn't connect with my other one), some people in mumble might not know who I was, this is shown later when the player in this conversation himself didn't know it was me at first when he joined mumble shortly after. "beat da system" - I'm speaking about mumbles connectivity here (I "beat" mumbles problem), not MCPublic's ban or moderation system. Next, I contacted Mumberthrax, and I'm sure you already know I was told by him that I had not been banned from mumble under Forzaire. I continued to use "PolarBearSwagz" as I had overwrote my mumble certificate with this new one. 2014-05-23 19:56:05 | [Forzaire -> player] dun wanna make an appeal and theyre like "lol ur not even banned scrub" Once again, you're simply supporting my claim. I am shown here talking to the player again, this time saying how I wasn't sure I had been banned from mumble. I told him how I did not wish to make an appeal on the forums in the case I had not been banned in the first place. This again shows how I was unaware I had been banned from mumble. From the timestamps you can see this was during the original conversation with the "player" and a few minutes before I contacted Mumberthrax. This ban was not issued because staff were 'upset', nor was it issued because you changed your birthday. It was issued because of your refusal to follow the rules. This entire situation would have gone no further had you done what you said and stopped. Every step we've taken has been only in response to an action of yours. In regard to me handling this ban. I was in constant contact with all the directly involved staff and each of my responses has been vetted and approved by most of the admin team. You would be receiving similar responses from other admins had I not issued the ban myself. Alright, I have been under the impression this all began with me changing my birthday daily. If this ban was not issued as a result of me changing my birthday, what was I banned for? Was it for "ban evading" or the trolling that occurred in mumble? These are the only 2 possibilities I see, as anything else that happened was involved with my birthdays. To add to this, why is "abusing services" in my ban reason if I was not banned for changing my birthday? The only service I see "abused" was the birthday system. Alright, but did you feel obligated to take on this ban? Had you not agreed to this, it would have effected you as much as it did any other random player. Obviously when you choose to handle something, you become involved in it, so I see no reason for you to complain about the "trolling" and "rule lawyering". You are free to read the forums at your leisure, you simply can't be an active participant for the time being. I see this, but I'm simply stating the ban is redundant as I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I've posted with both accounts combined (outside of appeals). I think I've posted more in this appeal than I have on any other topic or thread. I'm not really sure where this notion came from that if you are banned from one service you can't and won't be banned from any of the others. In fact, the trolling rule specifically states that you can be banned from the other services. The reason the bans have moved to in game is because you obviously feel the forum ban to be so inconsequential as to disregard it entirely (evading it). I'd assume I thought this because usually when you're banned from one MCPublic thing, you aren't banned on all of them. Do you ban xrayers and loggers from the forums and mumble? Are people who harass other players banned from all of these? If an offence such as those, which are around 10x as "bad" as my offence, why does this not apply to them? Slide, you're justifying this by saying how I evaded by ban on the forums. Had I not logged in under abiuv, would I be banned? I didn't post at all under abiuv, nor did I do anything on the forums, really. Had I stayed logged out I'd have had as much of an impact on the forums than I would have if I had logged in. Although, on the other hand, the use of Forziare was evading and a way to continue my birthday changing. I understand this part, but it still had hardly any effect on the forums. Maybe arguing isn't the best approach? Early on we opened a polite line of communication in hopes to resolve all this amicably. Is the purpose of the "Ban Appeals" forum not for banned players to refute their bans and defend themselves? I have not argued maliciously throughout this ban appeal. I have simply been delivering my side of what occurred, along with my thoughts on your responses. Am I supposed to simply post an appeal saying that I'm in the wrong entirely and politely request my punishment when I know the ban is unjust and ridiculous? I honestly am impressed by how far this appeal has come and the fact it's been ongoing for almost a week. Hopefully you can resolve this soon, hopefully with less ridiculous ban lengths. To finish this reply off, I'd like to know whether my mumble and server bans are currently being counted for their times. Meaning are my server and mumble bans going through their 1 month and 2 week period right now? I understand the forum one won't begin until this appeal is finished, but I'd see no reason to hold off on the bans for mumble and minecraft if nothing is occurring on them now. Thanks, Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I feel like we are going around in circles here. These are the core reasons you are banned and the evidence for them is all above Forum ban evading - FACT, cannot be disputed Excessive trolling - Staff opinion. You may disagree, but I and the ones I consulted with viewed that it had become excessive. Rules violated: If you are banned under one account you cannot play on other accounts on the server while the ban is still in effect. If you are caught playing on alt accounts while your main account is banned will result in your alt accounts being permanently banned. - Though the language here tends more towards Minecraft, it carries over to all the services individually. Excessive trolling in general will not be tolerated and may result in a ban from the forum, mumble, and/or the nerd.nu servers. This includes trolling with your nickname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forzaire Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hello slide, didn't expect such a fast reply. Yes, I understand I cannot claim I didn't evade on the forums. This is shown with my "Forziare" account. I'd gladly accept the ban for evading as Forziare. The "excessive trolling," is as you said, an opinion. I feel I may have crossed the line a few times, but also the situation is not as extreme as you make it seem. Yes, I changed my birthday, then again on a new account, then spoke of it in mumble, continued "trolling", and then was banned. The trolling, I assume, is the birthdays and mumble comments? I had already been banned from the forums and could not change my birthday anymore,I still cannot now. I admit to trying to attempting to change it after being unbanned, but obviously soon let the birthday things go after being unbanned. You can bring up my forums post on birthdays to counter this if you'd like, but I've already explained the semi-legitimacy of that post. Now, you claim my ban was mainly from "Forum ban evading" and "Excessive trolling". I'll accept this, however, I will not accept the other stuff you've brought up such as racism, knowingly evading mumble, and "admitting" IP evading. With this being said, I'll accept the ban for those 2 offences you've posted, as I feel evading the forums is justifiable. However, I do not feel these 2 offences would justify a 3 month forums ban, 1 month mumble ban, and 2 week Minecraft server ban. I'd suggest revising the lengths you've set to ones more appropriate and suitable for a ban this minor. I did not xray, or grief, or harass players, or anything deserving an excessive ban. If you counter this with my extensive list of past bans, I'd gladly remind you of the punishments I've already served for those. As I've said many times, this appeal and ban have been greatly over dramatized, I only ask for a fairly reasonable ban length, as I feel I've delivered my side of this and defended myself numerous times throughout this appeal. Thanks again, Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 We have a VERY clear policy of absolutely no racism and 'nigga' has no non-racist meaning. It does not matter if you didn't mean it that way. Even ignoring the mumble instance where you contacted Mumbertrax. You still evaded this mumble ban. You logged in a day after under the name 'Abiuv-'. You clearly knew you were banned. I'm sorry you feel your ban length is too long. I gave you a chance to set a reasonable length in my original response. You however decided to place no blame on yourself and say you should have no ban length. Which left the decision of ban length up to me. This is what I feel is appropriate and what the ban length will stay at. Please next time, if we ask you to stop trolling and/or misusing the services, simply stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forzaire Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) We're really pushing through this appeal now, You only learned of this "racism" by reviewing logs, no one reported it and I've offended nobody, I still fail to see why you continue to defend yourself here. To defend myself here, as I said, I logged off mumble shortly after being told I was banned in-game and after I had appealed (around 5/6pm). The next time I tried to join mumble was the next day, in public and away from my computer (12/1pm). I've already explained the details surrounding this. Please do not accuse me of making this "go around in circles" if you won't even listen to me. I have not decided to place no blame on myself, if you'd read through my replies, you'd have seen I've admitted to many things throughout this appeal (Control+F "admit"). I've already said I wouldn't just appeal with a catering to the banning admin and claiming I'm to blame for this all. I've already stated many times, this could have been settled much easier and moderated much better. Obviously I have no control over my ban length, and it depends entirely on you, but I feel I can voice my opinion that it is a bit extreme for such a minor offence that started with the birthdays. I clearly cannot dictate how poorly you act throughout this appeal, but maybe restating myself for the tenth time will show you how ridiculous a 3 month, 1 month, and 2 week ban is in this case. Obviously bans like this make sense in the event that someone xrays, or harasses staff repeatedly, or even griefs for the 10th time, but in this situation, I don't feel that's the case. Thanks, Forzaire Edited May 30, 2014 by Forzaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slide Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 For every single ban we review the logs to get an accurate representation of the situation. You used a racist word and got caught. I won't debate this anymore. So, you purposefully logged into mumble the day after you were told you were banned......... that is ban evading. Your ban length was determined based on this ban and the history of your past bans. For each subsequent ban, the ban length increases. I've made every attempt to treat this ban appeal with professionalism and respond as straight forward as possible and I'm sorry you feel otherwise. As this is literally going no where, I'm closing this appeal. You will be unbanned at the following times: Forum: August 24th @ 3:12PM CDT Mumble: June 24th @ 3:12PM CDT Minecraft: June 7th @ 3:13PM CDT After your Minecraft ban is done, I will be willing to re-evaluate the lengths based on your behavior but the lengths stay for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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