barneybot + vivalahelvig [head admin]

[barneygale]

Hi,

 

This is a continuation of my appeal from here: https://nerd.nu/forums/index.php?/topic/2654-barneybot-vivalahelvig-head-admin/

 

The admin who dealt with my request made the following mistakes in a short space:

 

1. Giving no justification whatsoever for the continued ban on two of my alt accounts.

2. Claiming that the policy is to never unban alt accounts, something that is patently false (both currently AND historically).

3. Closing the appeal before it was complete and both parties were agreed on the course of action, something which has been written about multiple times before by various admins.

 

I would like an explanation of exactly what benefits keeping some (but not all!) of my alt accounts banned brings to nerd. I think this is a perfectly reasonable request, as bans are *supposed* to benefit the community. I will continue to press for an answer on this, unless I am threatened for doing so.

 

For all the (deserved) shit I gave JohnAdams, she at least tried to rationalise her policies and not hide entirely behind ideas of half-remembered precedent and tradition.

[Mrloud15]

Hello barneygale, I would first like to say sorry, I was under the impression that you were aware of this long standing policy which can be found at nerd.nu/rules:

 

If you are banned under one account you cannot play on other accounts on the server while the ban is still in effect. If you are caught playing on alt accounts while your main account is banned will result in your alt accounts being permanently banned

 

The two alts you are requesting to have unbanned were used when one of your accounts, barneygale, was banned for unauthorized server access. As a result, the alts accounts were banned under the policy above.  I hope this policy explains why your appeal was denied, but if you have any questions or don't understand why the these bans fall under this policy, just let me know and I will try to find you an answer or explain it better. Now like I said in the last appeal, we are discussing alternatives to this policy, but as of right now the policy has not been changed. I would suggest keeping an eye out for any news regarding a change in policy about how alt accounts are banned!

 

One last thing, I would suggest reading up on the rules just to make sure you know them since it seems you were unsure of what this policy says.

[barneygale]

I wonder what you sound like when you're not being patronising, Mrloud15. Yes, I am aware of the rule, as you well know given I've posted a thread about it and posted multiple times in the duplicate thread you needlessly made.

 

You'd do well to remember that *you* are the head admin and *you* make the rules. Replying to a query about why I was banned by saying "you were banned because you broke a rule" is as good as saying "you were banned because you were banned". If you think your continued talking down to players is winning you any admirers, think again.

 

The defects in this rule are known, and have been well discussed in two forum threads in which you participated. The facts are all before you; they have been since august. If you have found time to discuss my appeal, you must surely have found time to discuss a well-understood problem with a rule.

 

Rules against griefing and hate speech are obvious. A rule that punishes some accounts but not others (as opposed to some people but not others) is a head-scratcher. Where's the benefit to the community? Why not extend the original ban and unban all the accounts at the same time?

[barneygale]

Another thing worth mentioning: historically the head admins have opted not to use this rule on a number of occasions (I know of three, there may be more). The reasons are usually obvious and similar to mine, i.e. I had a *permaban* lifted. IIRC, Dumbo52 also mentioned to me in-game that he knew of exceptions.

[Mrloud15]

I wonder what you sound like when you're not being patronising, Mrloud15. Yes, I am aware of the rule, as you well know given I've posted a thread about it and posted multiple times in the duplicate thread you needlessly made.

I was not trying to patronize you at all, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Given the words you were using and the multiple appeals, it seemed like you were unsure about what the policy says, that it was written down, and how it applied to your accounts, so I attempted to clear those things up for you.

 

 

You'd do well to remember that *you* are the head admin and *you* make the rules. Replying to a query about why I was banned by saying "you were banned because you broke a rule" is as good as saying "you were banned because you were banned". If you think your continued talking down to players is winning you any admirers, think again.

I'm not trying to talk down to you. You where banned because you broke a rule, so I'm not sure what more you wanted me to say on that topic because ban appeals are not the place to discus policies.

 

 

The defects in this rule are known, and have been well discussed in two forum threads in which you participated. The facts are all before you; they have been since august. If you have found time to discuss my appeal, you must surely have found time to discuss a well-understood problem with a rule.

 

Rules against griefing and hate speech are obvious. A rule that punishes some accounts but not others (as opposed to some people but not others) is a head-scratcher. Where's the benefit to the community? Why not extend the original ban and unban all the accounts at the same time?

Once again, ban appeals are not the place to discuss policies and there are far easier ways to ask about them.

[barneygale]

> I was not trying to patronize you at all, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Given the words you were using and the multiple appeals, it seemed like you were unsure about what the policy says, that it was written down, and how it applied to your accounts, so I attempted to clear those things up for you.

 

Mrloud15, did you seriously think that I was not aware of the rule or how it applied to my account?

 

You had forgotten that I'd posted a thread about this exact issue only a couple of months ago?

 

You had forgotten that I'd posted a few times in your thread, specifically mentioning my accounts and my situation?

 

You thought that I too had forgotten the alt evasion rule, despite my many thousands of bans on mcbouncer for precisely that infraction?

 

You thought I'd forgotten this rule despite months of trawling the internet for compromised accounts and banning them?

 

You thought I'd forgotten but didn't see fit to ask what rule I'd broken in the original post?

 

...

 

This is what you genuinely, honest-to-god believe?

 

I'm not sure which explanation for your attitude is more terrifying: malice or astounding ignorance

 

> Once again, ban appeals are not the place to discuss policies and there are far easier ways to ask about them.

 

This is exactly the place to talk about this rule. It doesn't make sense, it didn't make *grammatical* sense until very recently, it's rarely appealed, when it *is* appealed I know of ZERO instances of the appeal being denied. If you can't explain why the rule is a good rule, why the fuck are you enforcing it?

Edited October 15, 2014 by barneygale

[Mrloud15]

> I was not trying to patronize you at all, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Given the words you were using and the multiple appeals, it seemed like you were unsure about what the policy says, that it was written down, and how it applied to your accounts, so I attempted to clear those things up for you.

 

Mrloud15, did you seriously think that I was not aware of the rule or how it applied to my account?

 

You had forgotten that I'd posted a thread about this exact issue only a couple of months ago?

 

You had forgotten that I'd posted a few times in your thread, specifically mentioning my accounts and my situation?

 

You thought that I too had forgotten the alt evasion rule, despite my many thousands of bans on mcbouncer for precisely that infraction?

 

You thought I'd forgotten this rule despite months of trawling the internet for compromised accounts and banning them?

 

You thought I'd forgotten but didn't see fit to ask what rule I'd broken in the original post?

 

...

 

This is what you genuinely, honest-to-god believe?

 

I'm not sure which explanation for your attitude is more terrifying: malice or astounding ignorance

I assumed you knew of all of that in your appeal made a few days ago. However, your choice of words in this second appeal made it seem like you did not know these things.

[barneygale]

Feel free to respond to the points I've been repeatedly making: the rule is known to be defective, it never made sense, previous head admins KNEW it didn't make sense and decided not to enforce it, I'm not aware of it EVER being enforced in a ban appeal until now.

[Mrloud15]

There are plenty of times when this policy has been enforced, and you are more than welcome to check past appeals to find some examples.

 

The current policy is the one you were banned under and it's still the one we are using. Whether or not you think it's defective is not relevant for this appeal, it is there and we enforce it. You are more that welcome to make a new appeal if the policy changes in the future, but for now your appeal is still denied.