Rokku117 [totemo]

[Rokku117]

Was banned. Would like am ELI5 pls

[totemo]

I'm posting to simply acknowledge the appeal but have much to do today.  I will deal with it within 48 hours.

[Rokku117]

Everything ghrey303 said in his appeal is accurate to the situation. I meant no harm or to exploit the server. I saw it merely as a bonus during the Admin Hunt that was taking place at the time. I also rather keep everything as this was a "Technical" issue and not a player made exploit, but I guess if it come down to it, I would return said "exploited" materials for an un-banning from the server.  I would also like to point to the rule about "hacking" the server.  As I was not using any modification or anything of the sort, I feel this is a little un-just. Also, the sudden ban without any warning or pm in-game leading up to, was a tad disappointing. In this case the admins should have been careful about this, what if I hadn't found this and someone else had? They would of sat there and abused the crap out of and never said anything. It could of possibly expanded into a ton of other people abusing it and gotten even further. I don’t think that this is entirely fair toward me as I had no idea, and the admins should of taken better care. I was willing to comply with totemo's request to return the diamonds that he asked for and nothing else was said until I was suddenly banned. Then upon asking what was going on I was given no explanation besides I was told to wait despite me not purposely doing anything wrong.

[Rokku117]

Bumpety bump bump ba-bump da-bumpbump

[totemo]

Here are what I see as the facts of this matter, reconstructed from the server logs and my own recollection:

 

•  To set up the Shopkeepers plugin on PvE, I copied the configuration folder from testing.  This had the unfortunate and unintended consequence of copying some "test" villagers to PvE.


•  The villagers were located approximately 700 blocks from spawn, and therefore their presence went unnoticed by the staff.


•  One of the test trades was to sell diamonds for 1 dirt apiece.


•  Rokku117 found the villagers and called ghrey303 to bring dirt to trade.  They also excavated dirt from the area surrounding the Shopkeeper villagers.


•  Rokku117 made an attempt to contact tompreuss to ask about the trade.  However, the admin hunt was in progress and tompreuss was distracted by that and messages from other players.  Rokku117's message was vague and did not convey any sense of the severity of the issue with the villager.  It was easily misinterpreted as a query about the legitimate shopkeeper at spawn.

2013-12-11 22:46:23 | [Rokku117 -> tompreuss] What do we do about these villagers?

2013-12-11 22:46:33 | [tompreuss -> Rokku117] uh

2013-12-11 22:46:35 | [tompreuss -> Rokku117] busy

2013-12-11 22:46:38 | [Rokku117 -> tompreuss] Can we have them?

2013-12-11 22:46:44 | [tompreuss -> Rokku117] busy

2013-12-11 22:46:48 | [Rokku117 -> tompreuss] ok...

2013-12-11 22:46:54 | [tompreuss -> Rokku117] admin hunt

2013-12-11 22:47:01 | [Rokku117 -> tompreuss] I know

•  Another player was also present, but did not use the trade and consequently was not banned. He in fact warned the others that it would be unwise to use the trade.


•  I discovered the use of the bogus trade in the Shopkeepers trading log file, teleport to Rokku117 and deleted the villagers.


•  I misread the log file, due to my unfamiliarity with the plugin, interpreting the number of trades executed as the number of items actually traded, and asked for that many diamonds to be refunded.  At which point I had initially thought the matter to be closed, with no significant harm done.


•  In reality, Rokku117 and ghrey303 had each acquired on the order of 1500 diamonds over the course of 18 minutes, trading dirt that they had on hand and what they excavated from the site.


•  When asked about the trade, I clarified in chat that:

 

2013-12-11 23:06:26 | <totemo> it was a mistake and obviously not intended

2013-12-11 23:06:35 | <Rokku117> Oh. Weird

2013-12-11 23:08:40 | <totemo> it was a test trade that got copied across by mistake

2013-12-11 23:08:44 | <Rokku117> Ahh ok

2013-12-11 23:08:46 | <Rokku117> lmao

• Immediately after that, Rokku117 decides to discuss the situation with ghrey303 "off the record":

2013-12-11 23:09:31 | ClanChat: [wofficers]<Rokku117> Ghrey do you have xfire or steam,?

2013-12-11 23:09:39 | ClanChat: [wofficers]<ghrey303> steam, yup!

...

2013-12-11 23:11:26 | ClanChat: [wofficers]<Rokku117> Then we shall talk where we arent being recorded

• Neither Rokku117 nor ghrey303 volunteered any information to staff about the number of diamonds that they had acquired.


• I subsequently discovered the full extent to which the trade had been utilised in other logs.


• ghrey303 did not return to his chests because of a desire to exploit the mistake as quickly as possible before they were caught:

2013-12-11 23:32:19 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<Rokku117> Welp, i guess we need more dirt lol

2013-12-11 23:32:27 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<ghrey303> I have a double chest still haha

2013-12-11 23:32:31 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<Rokku117> D:

2013-12-11 23:32:36 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<Rokku117> Why didnt you grab it!

2013-12-11 23:32:44 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<Rokku117> Dont worry about it ;D

2013-12-11 23:32:48 | ClanChat: [whiteoak]<ghrey303> because I figured we would be caught by the time I got back

• When prompted as to whether he might not be telling me everything, Rokku117's response was obtuse.  He took a full 10 seconds to think about it:

2013-12-11 23:36:37 | [totemo -> Rokku117] do you need to tell me something mate?

2013-12-11 23:36:47 | [Rokku117 -> totemo] ?

• Rokku117 and ghrey303 were then banned to prevent them from moving any diamonds, which might complicate recovery.

 

To summarise: 

 

• Due to schedule pressure, mistakes were made in setting up the special villagers and in correcting those mistakes.


• Rokku117 and ghrey303 attempted to exploit the situation.


• Their communication to staff was ambiguous and staff were distracted by seemingly more important matters.

 

 

I've deliberated on this matter for longer than I would care to admit.  I've also consulted with all of the P admins at length, on several occasions over the last few days.  

 

One of my difficulties in making a decision on this is that the situation arose as a consequence of mistakes made by myself.  The heart of the matter, therefore, is to what degree the players are to be held responsible when such mistakes happen.

 

What I have concluded is that:

 

• Though I try to avoid them, mistakes will occasionally happen, particularly when people are under schedule pressure, as occurred with the update to 1.7.


• You took advantage of these mistakes.  Incidentally, I see that Rokku117 has decided to engage in rule lawyering in his appeal: you should by all means try that with a real world judge some time.  I'll quote from the PvE rules: "No use of bugs or exploits to gain an advantage over other players". It was a bug in our configuration. End of Story.


• I consider that bugs are, in fact, inevitable.  What matters is not whether they exist or who put them in, but how you as players deal with them.  In this instance, you attempted to exploit the situation to the maximum degree and did not volunteer any information that might have been utilised by staff to correct it.


• Both Rokku117 and ghrey303 assert in their appeals that they were unsure whether the trade was intended or not.  I have several thoughts about that:
  
  • Firstly, no reasonable Minecraft player who is familiar with PvE, as you both are, would consider a trade from dirt to diamonds to be balanced or in keeping with the style of play that the staff have configured.  If you wish to argue otherwise, I will be happy to replace all of your diamond gear with the equivalent number of dirt blocks.
  
  
  • Secondly, you both acted guiltily. It is clear that you were aware that what you were doing is wrong. Rokku117 decided to discuss what to do with the diamonds off the record; ghrey303 expressed his fear of "getting caught".
  
  
  
  
• Overall, you both acted in bad faith.  You could easily have avoided a ban by clear communication with staff and by not exploiting the mistake.  Ultimately, you gambled on not getting caught and being able to weasel out of it if you were.

 

I'm setting the ban duration to 2 weeks.  You can each open an appeal on the 25th of December.  Read the rules (http://nerd.nu/rules) in the meantime.

[Rokku117]

All I care for you to know is that we meant no harm to the server and its player, I deeply apologize for any misinterpretations of any actions ghrey or I made during that time. We simply thought the trades were some sort of hidden "Bonus" from the admin hunt. I am also wondering why you didn't simply ask for all the diamonds back instead of a specific number. I would rather not be banned for 2 weeks, so if there is anything I can say or do to prove that this was truly an honest mistake, then please let me know. 

[Mrloud15]

Hello Rokku117, I have a few questions for you.

 

 We simply thought the trades were some sort of hidden "Bonus" from the admin hunt. 

I could see if you thought 2-3 diamonds where a bonus, but why would you think that 1500 of anything would be a bonus and not an error? 

 

 

 

I am also wondering why you didn't simply ask for all the diamonds back instead of a specific number.

Why did you not say that you had more?

[Rokku117]

I wasn't thinking of 1500 as I was in the "heat of the moment" and I didn't say that I had more because I assumed, with his ability to see what is in a players inventory, that he knew I had more. And can we not admit that there mistakes on both sides? Do I HAVE to be entirely wrong? I admit I was wrong. I understand that it shouldn't have happened in the first place and I'm sorry it did. There's no way this could happen again. I pretty sure that this is taking too long and has been blown way out of proportion.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Rokku117

[totemo]

I am also wondering why you didn't simply ask for all the diamonds back instead of a specific number. I would rather not be banned for 2 weeks, so if there is anything I can say or do to prove that this was truly an honest mistake, then please let me know. 

 

I have dealt with many bans where people will say whatever it takes to get out of trouble.  It is a sad fact that I no longer trust players to tell me the truth in these situations and simply rely on the logs.

 

Sadly, your conduct does not dissuade me of this.

[Rokku117]

Why would I have any reason to lie to you? It was a mistake, I admit that. I don't get why you think I'd lie about this. I care about this server, I just want to play a game with my friends. I'm not trying to "dissuade" you of any "evidence"  I understand now that I should have talked to someone prior to this happening, but I didn't. I now see this as my own fault. I feel this is needless "punishment" because this was a secluded one time event. 

 

I wouldn't say this falls under a normal ban under normal circumstances, simply a miss communication on my part  and I feel it isn't rightly deserved. This situation isn't repeatable, I wouldn't do it again even if you wanted me to. . What if someone else had come along and found the villager, traded a few stacks and left? I at least tried to contact an admin. I mislead myself into thinking this was some sort of "bonus" 

 

Again, I apologize for the lack of communication and my seemingly maligned behavior, it was childish and rather stupid of me to think this was a bonus

 

I urge you to forgive my selfish behavior and please reconsider my ban.

 

I am trying to be civil here, so if anything here leads you to think that I am "just saying that to not be in trouble" I would like you to know that I am being as sincere as possible and truly wish to come back to the server.