Debate of head ownership... ATTENTION: Head Admins

[xoxx]

Let me explain the situation…

Laugh_Addax and xTheHundreds were in a genuine bloodbath when Laugh proceeded to behead the iconic player. Since both were prepared for battle with shining suits of armor and diamond swords the mighty xTheHundreds was decapitated and a head was dropped. In laughs triumphant glory, a thieving Buddy(don’t know his full name), strolled by and stole the head of xTheHundreds from under Laughs feet.

 

Laugh Chased him down but not before Buddy placed the head on xTheHundreds Base just inside the door. A split second after the placement, Laugh killed Buddy and picked up the head that he had rightfully earned and headed back to base.

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There are two reasons that Laugh picked up the Head that he earned:

 

1: Laugh had just killed the person that the head was of…

 

2: Laugh witnessed a grief by Buddy(whose claim the head was placed on wasn’t his) so Laugh simply picked up the head to remove the griff so the owner could return to the base as he had left it.

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A few rules I can see come to mind….

 

 Rule number 1: Don’t be a dick

This applies because Buddy stole the head that Laugh had just earned.

 

Rule Number 2: Grief baiting

This applies because Buddy knew that Laugh wanted the head and would pick it up no matter where it was placed.

 

Rule Number 3: Griefing (placing blocks….on other player’s structures.)

This applies because the land that the head was placed on did not belong to Buddy and he had placed it there.

 

 

[LaughAddax]

I can attest to this.

[Draykhar]

As it's a debate thread, I'll give my .02

Let me explain the situation…

Laugh_Addax and xTheHundreds were in a genuine bloodbath when Laugh proceeded to behead the iconic player. Since both were prepared for battle with shining suits of armor and diamond swords the mighty xTheHundreds was decapitated and a head was dropped. In laughs triumphant glory, a thieving Buddy(don’t know his full name), strolled by and stole the head of xTheHundreds from under Laughs feet.

You've got a lot of purple prose here. Let's cut out the unnecessary pathos and bring it all down to the brass tax. So Hundo got gibbed by Laugh, who was too slow to grab the loot which was instead grabbed by Hundos friend Buddy.

 

Laugh Chased him down but not before Buddy placed the head on xTheHundreds Base just inside the door. A split second after the placement, Laugh killed Buddy and picked up the head that he had rightfully earned and headed back to base.

So he placed the head down, and then Laugh killed him and broke the head, and took it? In my book, it looks like Laugh griefed.

 

There are two reasons that Laugh picked up the Head that he earned:

 

1: Laugh had just killed the person that the head was of…

 

2: Laugh witnessed a grief by Buddy(whose claim the head was placed on wasn’t his) so Laugh simply picked up the head to remove the griff so the owner could return to the base as he had left it.

 

1.The first one is a null point as he lost possession of the head. Killing someone doesn't entitle you to the loot on S. You've been around plenty long enough that you know nothing is yours until it's safely in a locked chest.

2. Two 'griefs' don't solve an issue. If laugh thought the skull being set on someone elses land was grief he ought to have made a modreq. (As a sidenote, you really think Hundo would have considered his friend putting his own head in his base 'grief'?) 2013-05-27 03:00:20 | <xTheHundreds> xoxx I TOLD Him to place it there on MY land

 

 

A few rules I can see come to mind….

 

 Rule number 1: Don’t be a dick

This applies because Buddy stole the head that Laugh had just earned.

 

Rule Number 2: Grief baiting

This applies because Buddy knew that Laugh wanted the head and would pick it up no matter where it was placed.

 

Rule Number 3: Griefing (placing blocks….on other player’s structures.)

This applies because the land that the head was placed on did not belong to Buddy and he had placed it there.

 

1. Don't be a dick rule is a catch-all for unforeseen circumstances, But more oft than not - in my eyes this situation - it's the one that everyone screams to whenever they feel something (or someone) isn't being fair to them.

Even so, stealing loot has long been in the spirit of survival. I'm neigh certain nearly everyone on Survival has been on BOTH sides of this type of situation.

2. How in the hell is Buddy supposed to determine if Laugh can be responsible for his own actions? And the conditions a block being placed doesn't justify something as being griefbait. But I'll play on with you. If the skull is 'griefbait' as your claiming it is, then Laugh ought be banned for breaking it. Pure and simple.
 

3. Somewhat fair, but again, it appears Hundo gave him permission to build on it, going sofar as to yell at you to give it back because "<xTheHundreds> THATS GRIEF"

 

I can attest to this.

I cannot, sorry. I was not on, and am only going off xoxx's statements here, as well as what I can compile from the logs.

 

xoxxs statement shows me that you broke a block someone else placed. Regardless of who 'owned' that block (again, all you own on S is what's locked in a chest or built.), regardless of who placed it or where it was placed, that's grief. 

[uni0]

This case raises an interesting question about grief bait imo. Suppose you pick up loot in front of someone during a fight and quickly start placing the blocks on the ground (any kind of valuable blocks) in an attempt to save the loot. Wouldn't this be grief bait? I think both persons would be in trouble for this.

[xoxx]

Thats the point I tried making to Tharine last night but it didnt seem to work. Hey its not my head i wasnt in the fight I was just stating how i felt. There is a gray area here which makes it tough for me to be completely happy with either outcome. None the less, I do appreciate the opportunity that this server gives in terms of appeals and things like this. Thank you!

[Tharine]

I think draykhar's response sums up pretty well the same mentality I had when handling this last night.

 

Thats the point I tried making to Tharine last night but it didnt seem to work. Hey its not my head i wasnt in the fight I was just stating how i felt. There is a gray area here which makes it tough for me to be completely happy with either outcome. None the less, I do appreciate the opportunity that this server gives in terms of appeals and things like this. Thank you!

 

Being that this is an issue that hasn't come up before, and as such there is no standing definition of such an act as grief bait, i'm not going to honour or uphold the expectation that buddyweed be reprimanded for placing that block down as he was being killed. Should we consider such an act a form of grief bait in the future, absolutely, players will be reprimanded for doing such a thing. However, as it stands, i'm not going to moderate something on the basis of a policy that doesn't exist on our servers.

[xoxx]

Fair enough Tharine. Sorry if I came across as rude. I just couldnt find a rule that gave a definite solution to this issue, so it was pretty shady. Lots of what ifs and buts...but Thanks for your time! Hope there are no hard feelings. 

-XOXX

[Amaranth]

We've never considered placing valuable blocks before dying to be a way to save them. If you were building and placed something that's one thing but if you're putting a block down just because you know you're about to die and want to keep it from your killer too bad.

[edk]

If it was really "a split second after the placement" it seems like a clear case of abusing the grief rules in order to keep loot after you're killed. taking heads or any other blocks under such circumstances shouldn't be considered griefing.