dnynumberone

I find this strange. Why can't I delete my account? Can someone else remove it?

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(Overall) - as a vanilla-ish advocate, I do think last rev was a good balance. In a way, last rev's IGSes were keeping with the vanilla concept and were almost like carbon/carts/etc, in that even a lone person could do it on their own, even if resource-intensive. 1. (Prevent etc.) - I could see a timed duration being a good thing to start, as un-vanilla as it is. Encourages initial cooperation amongst town members and solo people can still collect plenty on their own. Off-hand, for the idea. 2. (Changing etc.) - I still think this and other mechanics (horses, villagers) could be dealt with better by just being more strict with vanilla mechanics/enforcement. If vanilla iron golem spawners were limited to 4 spawn pads per town, and horses were limited to 20 per person (no +addowner'ing to give a breeder more), maybe a max of 50 villagers in a 100 block radius...? Seems we could go back to a lot of vanilla stuff. I'm not privy to server specs but the last few launches have gone admirably, so couldn't a lot of this stuff just be limited and not completely changed? (Stricter vanilla creates a lot of difficulties with a lot of these projects, and people seem to prefer things be more difficult.)

You put this in a way I couldn't, but yeah I think that's how I feel. I am curious, joining this server now, at the level of knowledge that I had when I first joined way back when? I'm pretty sure I would have found this current rev a bit overwhelming (especially when turkey blazes are thrown in...)

And now we're diverging even further into the topic of the IGS themselves - So um, to help clarify arguments from this point forth maybe someone could make 3 new threads, or some easy way to tag replies - 1) [TRS] This rev Specific - I still think iron golem spawners should be added immediately (to the same # as ~~elder~~ guardian temples at very least) 2) [RIG] Rev In General - some debate is going about that. 3) [iGS] Iron Golem Spawners - specifically? Herding cats, I tells ya... So TRS - still want more spawners added, tho probly too late now. Mighta been neat for new players to find. Too late for that. I guess more will come eventually, but by then, the only people who will win/receive them will be the same old same old. RIG - I could write for days. I'll pass for now other than reiterating - the more specialized we are, the less open to new players we are. And perhaps the past few revs have been too heavily focused on community feedback, which by its very nature precludes new users from participating in. So maybe "new user perspective" could be given more attention. IGS - I think a combination of last rev and this rev could maybe be okay, even when not vanilla? Give them the same frequency/distribution pattern as guardian temples, and roughly the resources to develop. Guardian temples are huge pains in the asses to make vanilla forms of, just like iron grinders before. The TRS version of spawners being found could possibly work in future revs.

"A rev without any iron grinders could be interesting." For certain people, sure. Certain people. The broadest range of people? Questionable. And seriously Random, you're going to resort to "If you want to never have to worry about resources play creative mode"? You know that's a BS argument, c'mon man...

So I'd like to clarify one thing which I think would address parts of buzzie, toothless, and random's arguments - when I am arguing vanilla, I am not arguing for a pure unadulterated vanilla; this obviously wouldn't work for the server. And, for further clarification, my desire for "vanilla-ish" isn't a desire simply for vanilla's sake, but because I believe it makes the noob-entrance-requirements to the server higher each time a change is made.

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Lyle - I agree with a lot of what you said (tho let's stay away from the rail wars, I understand you have done a a helluva lot and torteela has done a helluva lot, can we leave it at that?). I think that when lag issues arrive, it is better to deal with that person more personally (and perhaps more harshly^1?) than to completely revise a vanilla mechanic. I understand that at a certain point in time (really, several) - a certain person (really, several) - were told they were really causing a strain on the server with one of their activities. And that even after warnings, even after having admins intervene once, those player(s) continued anyway. So we're going to radically alter vanilla mechanics and make it even harder for new people to join? How does that logic follow? _______ The very summation of my argument is - the more vanilla we are (I understand certain things like LWC/etc have to exist), the more likely we are to draw new players. The trend has been move away from vanilla in order to address a few issues that come up with a few people. Deal with those people better instead, keep the server as vanilla as possible, keep the number of server-specific-alterations to a minimum. ^1 (thought ^1 superscript worked) _____ Edit 2 : Imagine moblimiter kept horses to ~~10~~ 20. Oh boy you'd have to really be dedicated to make a great horse that way, and it would be for the most part vanilla. But that challenge. One might even have to work from other breeders from other towns in order to, vanilla-ey, make a great horse. Instead of...spamming spacebar...

Also, while we're on the subject of "enjoyment" - some people, one person in particular you're quite familiar with who you'll know next line, really enjoyed breeding the best possible horse. Some people enjoyed that so much they kept at it until they were tired of the constant hate because their horses were always the best. And after that person decided to stop, other people decided they enjoyed it, and they wanted to keep that tradition. And they enjoyed making the best possible horses for free for the rev to enjoy. Instead of like...spamming spacebar... Some people also enjoy making really great iron grinders for everyone to use. Instead of like...happening to find one... Enjoyment is great. But it seems we need more players? Maybe venturing further from vanilla isn't the answer. Maybe if someone has too many horses, tell them to chill. If two towns are building vanilla iron grinders next to each other, ask them to cooperate. Edit : maybe make an mcp classic server where worldguard is basically the only plugin? I would enjoy that..

Well this topic has wildly diverged from its original intention (addressing specific current rev issues) to more general rev-wide issues, so hey let's dive right into that - >I'm actually enjoying not having an easy grinder setup again, i'm finding i'm rather excited when i find ores rather than just paving over them because they're inconvenient. It makes the game feel more worthwhile than just plopping an alt in an afk box. Your experience. Great. And we can run polls, maybe that's the majority experience. Why we're now segueing into this topic is - we are becoming further and further and further from vanilla with each rev. We are, IMO, reaching the point where you have to be a specialist in regards to all the server rules/claims/custom spawners/regions and all the other intricacies, that you have to be a specialist to use this server. see robr's recent experience. People enjoy building iron grinders. People enjoy breeding horses. People enjoy vanilla - as close as can be while keeping multiplayer possible. These past two revs, and this most recent in particular, have completely soured me on the special spawners. Region protections, claims, those will always be tricky to explain to new users. Horses and iron shouldn't be. And, if pressed on the issue, I would give up bonemealing double slabs/mushrooms/wood/etc if it meant we returned to vanilla in other ways. If too many horses are really an issue, ask those people to reduce their numbers. That's the far superior solution than making custom spawners/leveling/experience/whatever mechanics. Going anti-vanilla/specialized instead of just telling a few people "hey, you have too many horses, we're getting rid of some" is kinda the worst possible solution.

I think, if the subject of this thread was slightly changed, we would be in complete agreement. I would prefer this server return to vanilla-except-where-necessary. Along those lines, I think a lot of long time players could be more empathizing with what it's like to start off on the server without the resources of a town behind you. For some people, hopping on a donkey might not be a possibility. Or it might be a crappy one because they're just busy trying to survive. As a single player, might take them 5-10 minutes to ride them the same distance. As a single player, they might not have the greatest dia picks with cool enchants. As a single player, they might not have the food to sustain such a long journey. and for those players in the past, they could have maybe popped over to a nearby big town and use an iron grinder for a few hours and be good. You're correct, it's very easy for people who are parts of big towns to get iron very quickly. For others, it's become a huge speedbump. In essence, I think a lot of these changes are focused on established towns, and really forgetting about new/independent players. One almost has to be a specialist in regards to the server intricacies to play here. How does that help attract new players? So for this particular topic - iron golem spawners - we have them this rev, so let's find a better way to use them. As the side topic - I agree, special spawners shouldn't really be used.

(I have the feeling AceMarconi might be starting something big hopefully )

I also very much understand there's a terribly...terrible...awful poop way to balance things. I am part of Rose, and I like seeing Rose successful. I also remember when Rose was first starting, and how much help it took from the community at large. And that interaction was so great. Rose's very first beacon pyramid, about 1/2 the iron blocks were donated from people around the map. So yeah I'm totally caught in a conundrum of wanting to see the little guy succeed while also wanting Rose to do well. But, along those lines - Rose has a pretty good userbase. A lot of towns do. Do they really need any more advantages? This is why I initially recommended adding 4+ new spawners at random places, or asking 4 users at random. I want the little guy to make something big.

i agree a lot with your last paragraph. But your first 2+ paragraphs are basically stating past-rev-credentials. Again, this rev - iron spawners are radically altered, people can't make their own villages, ores are plumped some amount, horses are hugely different - there are a LOT of changes this rev. Again...maybe familiarize yourself with this particular rev's ins and outs? Because almost all of your past-rev-cred is kinda drastically changed this go around. I mean, you're talking about rev14 mining...there are so many mechanic changes since rev14...you know we're on 19 now right...? **Apologies!** - didn't see your edit until too late.

>but really, P goes from the "dirt hut barely getting by" phase to the "we're building a utopian metropolis" in about two days. i don't think that needs to happen any faster. I completely agree with this. I am saying the current iron grinder/"prize award" format just reinforces that. Edit : Rose had planned for a second iron golem spawner in our iron grinder setup. We just pretty much assumed we would win won of those "prizes" eventually - however ephemeral, we pretty much knew one more (at least) would end up in our possession. As much as it benefits Rose, I do not like this. We shouldn't be this arrogant that "of course we're going to win one of those iron golem spawner prizes, so let's plan our build accordingly." That's just terribly conceited. Yes, I am lobbying against my town. Apologies pez, tic, zom, and so on. But when rose is planning a build based on the assumption we'll win one of those golem prizes...I think something is off-kilter. And we could use more things that benefit new/independent players.

Well, to be fair, /seen torteela (Nov 22) - do you have the best pulse on what P is like atm?

re:totemo I almost entirely agree with you, but think that's a bit of a side topic. This rev has special spawners, and I think they could be dealt with a bit better. I do agree there is a great deal of iron to be mined. Partly I think this supports my proposal - if there's already plenty of iron, what's 4 more spawners? Partly, remember, for some people to collect that iron they need to do a whole lot of single player farming/harvesting/repairing. In the past for projects (like rails) one could hop to the nearby town that made a grinder for a bit. Not so easy now.

The new golem spawner thing is a good idea, but flawed. Right now, for the most part, they're just kinda helping the rich get richer, instead of being a community resource. Add them randomly across the map. Or choose 4 random names from users who happen to be online and ask if they want one and where. Something. There's an emphasis on building communal projects (such as rails) and right now rails are limited to a select few. I think there's also a fundamental flaw with the idea of having them as "prizes later." First - "prizes" - this denotes winning certain events. Typically, people who win events come from big towns with lots of resources. So there's already a bit of a built in bias towards established towns/regular players. Second - "later" - when? A week/month/2 months/etc? Very vague. And, again, I can see the attempt at trying to keep players around with an incentive, but it really ends up more as a bias towards established/regular players. This rev has had a lot of experiments performed on it. And I am loving a lot of things about that. But I believe this golem spawner thing requires some tweaking, much like the horses required some as well.

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