SpiderMan
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Posts posted by SpiderMan
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If you're taking about LRO, she was not banned.
She was banned for it though, until someone else unbanned her a while later.
Also, it was none of anyone's business to meddle in her personal life. It was a very childish move by someone who is obviously not a child
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He was banned before most of the current player base joined, I think he should be given a second chance.
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I would love to see a proper response to the issues brought up in this thread.
I think everybody would.
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I'm glad this topic and subsequent posts are here, for everyone's interests as some of the concerns raised have been stalling the community focus on other pressing matters and while I cannot speak for everyone, I've not come across any one person yet who doesn't have the same destination in mind. We'll work on getting there together, in other open topics like these.
I agree, hope to see a follow up post in regards to this issue.
;D
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Rest assured friends, the concerns brought up in this thread are not being swept under the rug and/or ignored.
;D
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Toxicity in general or in this context? I meant that she knows what toxic is as she has seen it. No one I reference in what you quoted is being toxic...
No, usually not. Whistleblowing is sometimes the only way to get things out in the public. While the logs are not me at my best, however, they are... perhaps 4 conversations I've engaged in in the past 9 months. You see only the bad because that's all Tharine leaked.
What about all the other conversations I've engaged in where I was the players' advocate, agreed with Tharine on an issue, or conducted myself 100% professionally? Did she leak those? Of course not, it wouldn't serve her point. I am merely suggesting that even if disturbing, the leaked logs are isolated incidents in a much longer line of normal behavior. I'm not a power crazy, hate-the-player, fount of staff favortism some fancy me to be. If I was, I trust the other admins would have asked me to leave long ago. I'be been repramanded, though, for two of the incidents and talked down/out into correcting my actions myself in at least one of the others.
Here are a few clarifications:
- Explain toxicity in the context it was originally brought up.
- Who do you think is or was being toxic and why?
- Are the issues raised in the post with or without any merit?
- What is your opinion on said issues?
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I worded it that way to show up the preferential treatment of Survival. I'll do so again, in a different way.
For any PvP on P, for increased PvP on P and any PvP on C, it sounds like P and C admins asked permission from S admins for their servers to have PvP. It sounds like an ex-S admin was the one to say no to PvP on C. Following that reasoning, have you asked permission from the P admins for beds? Beds in the minecraft mode of survival are unique to P, therefore you must ask permission from the relevant admins, and they are allowed to turn you and your players down.
I'd appreciate it if some people would imagine they do accept the reasoning about asking permission, and answer from that point of view.
Beds aren't unique to P.nerd.nu , they've been in the game since Beta 1.3 February 22, 2011 more than 2 years ago.
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One thing I could see being a problem is how many users have access to logblock and are using it. Logblock is a heavy running system of sending a code asking for block edits from the server to an SQL database then back to a server. It can potentially be very resource demanding for the server. Especially if multiple users (30-80 people) are using it at around the same time.
It wouldnt be as much as most people think, the top creative mode server (800 players) gives everyone logblock rollback for their plot, and logblock wand everywhere else.
The resource impact is minimal and reduces moderation tickets exponentially.
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It is an apology. I'm not trying to share the blame with anyone, nor do I hold Tharine fully responsible for the community's reactions and words. But it would also be insulting her intelligence to say she had no idea what her post would do in the community. She's not stupid and has seen more than a fair share of toxicity and drama.
The 'rage post' was a test intended just as I describe it. I'm sorry you cannot or do not believe me. I could call witnesses, but I doubt you'd believe them either if you don't believe me.
What about what the people who said what they did, shouldn't they be held liable for their own words, the impact to the community?
Explain toxicity?
Who is being toxic?
Is the person whistleblowing worse than what they're whistleblowing about?
also, what about the issues that were raised in the posts?
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Do you have an example that applies to Creative?
I've seen creative servers that give players logblock access within THEIR plot.
It works great because it reduces moderation exponentially.
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Back in 2011, you could ask a head admin about an issue you had, and they would do their best to resolve it. Admins and mods alike, they always had your best interests at heart.
Are you implying this is not the case anymore?
I think s/he came to that conclusion based on the leaked mod/admin chat logs. Their words were very clear.
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It is an apology. I'm not trying to share the blame with anyone, nor do I hold Tharine fully responsible for the community's reactions and words. But it would also be insulting her intelligence to say she had no idea what her post would do in the community. She's not stupid and has seen more than a fair share of toxicity and drama.
The 'rage post' was a test intended just as I describe it. I'm sorry you cannot or do not believe me. I could call witnesses, but I doubt you'd believe them either if you don't believe me.
What about what the people who said what they did, shouldn't they be held liable for their own words, the impact to the community?
Explain toxicity?
Who is being toxic?
Is the person whistleblowing worse than what they're whistleblowing about?
also, what about the issues that were raised in the posts?
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I don't think Tharine can be blamed for what other people said about the community...
Edit: I'd prefer a reply instead of downvotes, please.
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I think if you change any statement where I said "we" to "I" your issues will be resolved, I do not speak for everyone. As I said before, I was trying to explain staff's response, not just my own. My statement was too authoritative and that caused confusion. Sorry.
Ah, thank you for clarifying.
Focusing on the issues Tharine brought up and whether I feel they need to be addressed. I do not think there is a strong problem of "players vs. staff" from my own observations of Mod Chat. I think there is a strong need for a private place to discuss server issues, and that the subcommunity that has formed around moderating the servers generally carries healthy (non-toxic) discussion. I think Tharine's chat logs show good examples of where that is not true, and where we can do better, but are not a reason to overall change our policy, which should be formalized.
The actual chat logs prove that there is a players vs staff issue. It's made worse by the fact that the subcommunity exists and isn't transparent in any way or responsive to the changes that the player base suggests.
Also:
https://nerd.nu/forum/index.php?/topic/405-becoming-a-moderator-is-not-a-promotion/
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Make it toggle-able.
Easy Peasy
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We also (and primarily) served you better by having a secure place to discuss server security preventing threats from damaging the community.
The contents of that chat room did more damage to the remaining community than her departure. Also, care to elaborate on the those threats?
Without these being assured I do not feel we serve you as well as we once did. I call taking that away "harming the community".
So by getting caught with your pants down, it means that you can no longer moderate efficiently on a minecraft server.
Unless I missed something I didn't dictate any player's opinion, in fact I stressed how your opinion matters to me in the post you responded to. Though you might believe my opinion is "trash", I am open to having my opinion changed, and the only way to do that is by discussing it.
Please note the usage of the word "we" below. Does that not seem like character assasination?
This person does not have nerd.nu's best interests at heart, and has violated our trust deeply in her most recent actions. Hopefully, you will then understand if we consider any points made as part of this final derogatory action to be anathema.
I take your, and other members opinions that Tharine has long been one of our most upstanding, and hard working admins very seriously. I don't believe that history has a direct bearing on how she is likely to act towards the community at the moment, her character, given her action which started this discussion. Her noted history will affect how I value any future communications and actions she has with the server and myself and is not to be disregarded.
Ah, you dont believe history has a direct bearing on how she is likely act towards the community... are you refering to the player community or the admin/mod subcommunity you mentioned earlier.
Her actions are far more harmful in my opinion than any of the issues she brought up and validated by that action. I think we simply disagree on that point and perhaps my above explanation of "harm" has changed your opinion. I do think her issues should be addressed and discussed, but preventing the associated actions holds priority for me in the immediate future.
Ah, the blaming the messenger. Also, your opinion has not changed my own opinion in the slightest.
I am not seeking to assassinate anyone's character. As bad as Tharine's actions were in my opinion, I still think there are ways I could welcome her back to the community eventually. I'm definitely not seeking to insult you, Tharine, or anyone, and so I hope I have been direct in responding to your issues.
Really, you can't be serious? explain the following:
This person does not have nerd.nu's best interests at heart, and has violated our trust deeply in her most recent actions. Hopefully, you will then understand if we consider any points made as part of this final derogatory action to be anathema.
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Edit: Instead of Downvoting, please reply,
Thanks,
-gsand
Since you asked, I will elaborate. The trust I was referring to was that of the other administrators, as applying to the commonly understood practice of keeping staff discussions private. Her views that were implemented were, first, the addition of more forum permissions to moderators, and, second, the deletion of JohnAdams1735's subreddit post which she felt reflected poorly on staff. Both courses of action, the posted logs reveal, were taken.
ah, so those were her only 2 requests, the ones that caused her to ragequit. It doesn't make sense she would ragequit like that...
gsand, you're correct that I have said this before in IRC, and I found myself incapable of responding to questions there in a timely manner that that medium usually follows. I posted these comments here to put my observations and opinions on record as a better way to responsibly discuss them.
I appreciated your apology the first time.
In response to your request for further explanaiton of harm, Tharine's unilateral choice to post private chat logs has taken away a secure and private location for staff to have discussions.
The primary issue most players appear to have is the toxicity of those discussions. She was very meticulous in sanitizing² those logs.
² relatively
We served you better because we had a private place where we could develop ideas together, which we could not on our own.
From my perspective it appears to be mostly gossip. I'm sure you're capable of forming ideas all by yourself.
It helped us form a strong sub-community within nerd.nu's staff.
A lot of people consider that to be one of the main problems.
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To clarify my perspective, her opinion no longer represents that of an admin, even a member of the servers, or even just some random person passing through, but rather someone who actively has sought to harm our community with every power we trusted her with. I consider your, our members, opinions to carry significantly much more weight in my decisions than Tharines at this point.
How is she seeking to harm the community, please explain the words you are typing.
Your attempt at character assasination is extremely obvious, by the way.
You've provided no real reason for people to dislike her other than the fact that she posted logs of a video game server admin chat log.
Also, I've known Tharine for considerably longer than you have, who are you to try to dictate my or anyone else's opinions about her.
Also, this isn't the first time you've said trash like this, the first time you said it was in IRC, and you got called out immediately.
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I feel like this discussion has turned into an argument over whether Tharine alone is a good or bad influence on the server, and it's utterly ignoring the behaviors and attitudes exhibited by other staff members in the logs, as well as since this all came to light.
It's not as simple as people losing their tempers. If it's so human, so normal, then why is there not a correlating change to server rules to remove the "don't be a dick" rule? Obviously, it's because it is there for a reason, and that reason is that there will be points that interventions are necessary to prevent something from turning incredibly ugly.
The fact that none of the staff here seem to think that is necessary for their own interactions, even after this public incident, just comes off as hypocritical.
Yes, a lot of players believe that there is a double standard between actions made by admins and those done by players.
The people who feel this way always seem to reference the following ban appeal.
http://nerd.nu/archives/index.php?p=/discussion/18332/randomdoor-cyotie911/p1
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When I read her post, I got the impression that that was much of her problem; she cared too much. She cared about being an effective admin so much, she allowed her workload to get out of hand, such as people contacting her on non-nerd.nu channels (like Facebook and Steam) with nerd.nu issues; the best thing to do would probably have been to simply ignore those or give them some stock reply like, "If you have an MCPublic issue, please bring it up with me through server channels." Apparently, she allowed her dedication to motivate her to indulge these intrusions instead, and I tend to think that had she not been rubbed so raw by all this, the posted conversation might not have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
Also, concerning those logs themselves, I didn't really enjoy them, certainly, but I really didn't find any of it shocking either. How did people think disagreements at the admin level were usually handled? Around a hardwood conference table in a high-rise building overlooking some slick, modern skyline, all dressed in suits and ties and someone standing at the front with a whiteboard and pointer? I've seen much worse, and don't think it's quite fair for people to hold the admin team to such an ivory standard as to be unable to believe that seeing them at their worst, in private, is not the best indicator of who they are, or how they administrate. Perhaps being a moderator myself has given me a somewhat closer perspective on the fact that staff members are people, and not just people, but Internet People, like all of us here, subject to moods, imperfections, and emotions, and usually confined to seeing others as a simple line of text, devoid of things like tone of voice, body language, facial expressions, etc., that can significantly change any phrase's meaning.
Excuse me I need to go get more commas.
A lot of people seem to have ignored the fact that those logs reveal that the specific issues raised (that is, moderation permissions on the forums) were addressed almost immediately (if peevishly), and the resolution was mostly in favor of Tharine's expressed views. In fact, I think she herself made one mistake (which I have observed to be a common one); she attempted to force her opponents to admit to being wrong immediately after the fact. Does that ever end well?
Overall, her tone seemed very professional and stand-offish, and while you could arguably call that passive-aggressive, I do think that's a better way to channel one's anger than name-calling. I will say that I didn't find her to be the most antagonistic participant in those logs, and I've already expressed on the subreddit my relief that at least a few people involved were there trying to bring things back on track and the temperature down (and Tharine agreed with me on that).
Dangit, out of parentheses.
Technically speaking, I think it is possible to say that Tharine broke a commonly understood trust (though I admit I have never seen the policy in writing myself) that staff-only conversations/deliberations should not be made available to non-staff without some kind of admin approval, and I kind of wish she hadn't made that post for the sake of the heated arguments it seems to have engendered. I do note that she was willing to at least make overtures of neutrality (in a world of text, that goes a long way), and has expressed dismay that the resulting turbulence has reached the degree it has. Even so, I believe she could have handled her issues in a gentler way, and I still think that, had she not let her job as admin ruin the game and the community so much for her, she probably would have.
There's a bug on my screen (really). Shoo!
In conclusion, I think the whole argument has become too polarized (anyone surprised?). I find it uncharitable to refer to Tharine as a "runt," and unreasonable to think that occasional friction between staff members "shouldn't exist in the first place." Either way, though, this discussion does exist, and I'm getting sick of the past, and would like to see more talk of what the future will hold, what will happen/be done, and to heck with whatever "prompted" it.
According to her leaving thread, she still had the trust of the s players, who's trust do you think she broke? please elaborate.
Which of her ideas were actually implemented?
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Who do you think would win in a competitive Counter strike match between your father and mother?
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:facepalm: :facepalm:The moment votifier gets installed on these servers is the moment a ton of people will quit.
In the same fashion as Digg 4.0
:facepalm: :facepalm:-
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Tharine! Hear me out on this, I have a WONDERFUL idea. I was thinking, could players have the choice to put their most beloved items in their inventory, and spawn with it next rev? That way, players would be able to keep some remnants of the previous rev and not lose everything they have worked so hard for - whilst still not having a chest room of maxed out stuff. I would really love if you gave this some thought, thanks!
-Eehee
*dribble*
EDIT:
If not an entire inventory of "remnants", perhaps just the option to put the "remnants" into the hotbar only, and wipe everything *except* players' hotbars? 9 items would be kept, as to avoid a player having a full inv of Diamond Blocks for example. Thanks for reading!
Too Exploitable.
9 Slots:
- Sharpness 5 Diamond Sword
- Protection 4 Diamond Helmet
- Protection 4 Diamond Chestplate
- Protection 4 Diamond Leggings
- Protection 4 Diamond Boots
- Stack of Diamond Blocks
- 16 Eyes of Ender
- Stack of Blaze Rods
- Stack of Carrots or Potatoes
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Just a clarification: You can place as many of the same heads as you want, but you can only place it a set number of times before you have to run the /skull command again to get a new head item, which you can then place a set number of times. You are not limited on the total number of heads placeable, just how many you can at one time using one head item. Think of it as durability on heads.
Actually, upon rereading your comment, I agree with you, but, I'm not sure if this change is forwards compatible.
ie: People that download old revs to see their old builds and finding that all the heads placed in them are gone due to an unforseen mojang patch.
Unban Carver.
in Minecraft General
Posted · Edited by gsand
This x 1000. Nobody has any right to try to control other peoples lives over a video game rivalry.