Enchanting

[djt832]

For a bit now, enchanting on survival has been extremely easy. It started out with xp plumps, then /unenchant and now Enchantism.

 

These are all great things, but how would everyone feel about reverting to a vanilla enchant system? This would get rid of /unenchant and Enchantism. Having these plugins allows for everyone to create perfect armor, weapons and tools much faster. This was implemented to level the playing field for all users. However, I think we have gotten to a point where it may be too level and far too easy. With the vanilla system, getting perfect gear was a challenge and took time, keeping users on the server longer. Now we are able to create "god" gear in under 10 minutes and I think this is hurting the overall game play. 

 

Any other thoughts?

 

 

[Rcub3161]

I would like to say that enchantism is hard to learn for new users, and it might turn them off from the servers. I love the plugin myself, but I can see where djt is coming from. 

[jllmprrt]

I don't understand why everyone doesn't like Enchantism. I mean it's not my favorite thing but there's an option to go to vanilla enchanting.

I see where you get the /unenchant being a bit cheaty; I think so too.

[Elephant Parade]

If Enchantism and the XP plump are removed, the server will become even more hostile towards new players. This probably isn't something we want.

[Tharine]

I agree with regards to the challenging aspect of it. Attempting to level the playing field for everyone has kind of turned things upside down and now I suppose (?) people are getting bored with how quick things are, as opposed to how slow it was to initially get on your feet. I can't speak for the people that have larger clans or anything though, as the current setup benefits me greatly as someone not in one.

 

Enchantism's pretty great, in my opinion. Especially since the option to switching back to vanilla was added - that lets you have a bit more control over how challenging you want things to be. My suggestion would be to tweak the things surrounding enchanting, but not the enchantment table setup itself. They're changing enchanting again in 1.8 though (it requires lapis...  ) so it would really depend on how people felt about the newer system coming in. Carrying on though, maybe scaling back/forward (whatever seems appropriate) the plumping of ores and experience (these don't have to be the only two) is the better way to go about it, instead of an all-or-nothing approach to enchanting.

 

Really though, if the opportunity's there, the game is only as challenging as you want it to be. You don't need to use Enchantism (at least nowadays), much like you don't need to build a mob grinder or, if ores were plumped, mine all day long. If things are moving too fast for you, just slow down and impose your own personal limits. I don't recall their name sadly, but someone was playing Survival in their own "adventure mode" a few revs ago, where I think they didn't allow themselves to do things like mine coal or accept help from others. There isn't a solution that's going to please everyone, but that guy was happy with what he had despite all that was offered to him.

[tobylane]

It might not be perfect, but vanilla is less perfect. Vanilla enchanting requires grinding, putting in the effort to get spare sets of diamond, a grinder to get the xp from, just for one fight (more or less). It takes far too long for how short they can last.

[roastnewt]

When 1.8 comes out, Mojang has made drastic changes to the enchanting system.  I think we should use that new system, because it resolves a lot of these arguments.

 

Firstly, it requires fewer levels to enchant.  Basically there's now an enchanting level requirement and an enchanting level cost.  So you have to BE at level 30 to get a high-tier enchant, but it only costs 2-3 levels.  This makes it easy to return to level 30 (from 27/28) and do another enchantment.  This could take the place of our XP boost.

 

Secondly, it gives you a hint as to what enchantment you're going to get.  It'll say something like "Sharpness...," which will let you know that you'll get the sharpness enchant, but not whether it's Sharpness 4, Sharpness 4 Fire 2, Sharpness 3 Knockback 1, etc, etc.  I think this is a good compromise, it could take the place of Enchantism, but not be a total crapshoot.

 

Thirdly, it costs one lapis to do an enchantment, which finally gives a use for lapis other than blue dye.

 

TL;DR: My vote is for just waiting until 1.8's enchanting system, and removing the XP boost and Enchantism then.

[djt832]

Thanks for the replies everyone! 

 

First off, I'd like to say I'm not bashing our current set up. I do enjoy Enchantism, but I feel like we may have become too spoiled. Hopefully it doesn't seem like I'm trying to force feed you my ideas, I'm just looking for discussion :)

 

 

Thank you roastnewt for explaining the new 1.8 system. I had completely forgotten about the changes they are making to enchanting. I agree that we should wait until 1.8 to consider tweaking our current enchanting setup. It sounds as though this could allow for a middle ground between the current vanilla system and enchantism.

 

 

Tobylane, while most of what you said is true, most of the users on S never have to set up a grinder. A few people will set up one in the end and within a week or less, its fully functional. Even before the xp plump and the max level was down to 30, end grinders have been extremely fast. They are also kept accessible for all players. Also, you are able to enchant books and combine those enchants with armor/weapons/tools with an anvil, and not wasting any ores.

 

 

Elephant_Parade, taking away plugins on the server will not make it more hostile to play on. It is the attitude of the joining users and the attitude of the the community towards them that creates a hostile environment. We can give away diamonds to everyone, but that wont make it a fun and happy place.

 

 

Tharine, I do have to agree with your argument. As someone who played alone last revision, enchantism was a great help. In my pre-enchantism experiences on nerd, I was never part of a large clan (unless 3-4 people counts). I do remember the lengths it took to get decent gear. However, we now have anvils to allow us to combine enchantments. We can also enchant books, so our weapons/armor/tools are not stuck with bad enchantments on our diamond items. As roastnewt pointed out, 1.8 may provide us with a nice middle ground.

Edited April 20, 2014 by djt832