We need your help!

[TheKingDuff]

Essentially, an idea that we find very interesting and possibly implementable for next rev is as follows:

 

     You get randomized drops. Instead of what the dying player is wearing or carrying (armor / weapons /blocks) being dropped, all of those items would be instantly converted into points (differing for each item), and then the loot that would be dropped would be randomized items of those on the "drop table" totaling up to those points (after being depreciated a bit to make farming within friends inefficient) that also take up 3/4th's the inventory space's taken pre-death. This is where you guys come in, we need your opinions on the point value for each item, the depreciation rate, and which items should be on the drop table. This is a very interesting opportunity for you to help shape the server you love. We have created a template for you, you can download as- any file you'd like, re-upload it, and if all goes well at the end of the week (6/8/14) we'll be able to average out the legitimate responses and use that table as the final table.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QN2wiFIjTNBFuGkbcbax2pKsz9n2BO-0ddRj35_ZGwM/edit#gid=0

[twilexis]

Umm, wat.

[EeHee2000]

I seriously think there should be more discussion on this before we do anything with it. I mean, this seems like we're just jumping right into something after taking the slightest glance. 
A bit more explanation and a nice discussion on this would be nice, as it's a pretty major change to be considering. I mean, we don't even know how we'd go about implementing it with the new features on the horizon, especially considering we don't even know what those features are. 
Again, we need some debate on this before we can do anything, otherwise we're all going to be very confused. 

[joshuaherman]

I think this should be playtested on a server instead of predetermining the randomized drops. How are we supposed to know beforehand if the drops will be balanced or not?

[TornadoHorse]

Again, we need some debate on this before we can do anything, otherwise we're all going to be very confused. 

 

No need for debate here, Duff was asking for help with his idea to give him an idea about the values of certain items. This is far from a finished article, we don't need to debate at every stage.

 

I think this should be playtested on a server instead of predetermining the randomized drops. How are we supposed to know beforehand if the drops will be balanced or not?

 

Duff needs to have a starting point for this idea which is why he is asking for help. If it gets to the point where we think we'd like to try an idea like this, definitely play testing would be needed, but not at the moment.

 

I'm neither here not there with this idea, but I think it'd be better to group items together and then add values, rather than having to choose a specific value for each item. Building blocks together, food, tools with different tiers (diamond, iron) etc.

[TheKingDuff]

Thanks Torn, yea, this was not meant as a, THIS IS BEING IMPLEMENTED NOW, but more like, this is a possible change that could occur eventually after the coding and creation of the tables that might add a fun aspect to S.

[djt832]

So the loot you get is based off the point value of the items the person you killed had?

Your explanation of it was a bit confusing to me.

[Jauris]

Rather than having the inventory randomized, why not have kills award players a set amount of points based on the gear the player was wearing, as well as perhaps the "rank" of the killed player. These points could be redeemed at something like a vendor or sign in spawn for exclusive items. (Think valuables. Diamonds, iron blocks, ghast tears, or even unobtainable items like spawn eggs.) Obviously the killed player will lose all of his items, and I would still suggest some of them drop for the killer as well. Perhaps not the entire inventory, but they certainly deserve something besides points. The player killed for points will need to be wearing armor, obviously, as well as the killer.

 

Additionally, I would suggest that once a player is killed, they will not award points for a set time period. This could be set at something for like 15 minutes, to help lessen camping and the "farming" of points. In a similar vein, when a player has been killed by another player enough times in a set period (12-24 hours, perhaps 2 - 3 kills), they will no longer award points to the killer.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Jauris

[dizney07]

What's stopping players from continually killing allies to try and get better loot drops? 

[Jauris]

Nevermind ~ 

Edited June 2, 2014 by Jauris

[TheKingDuff]

What's stopping players from continually killing allies to try and get better loot drops? 

Well there would be a depreciation of point value from pre to post death

[TheKingDuff]

So the loot you get is based off the point value of the items the person you killed had?

Your explanation of it was a bit confusing to me.

The total point value of all of the players items would taken down a flat percentage, maybe 5% or something like that, and then random items that were approved as droppable (undamaged gear, potions, enchanted tools etc.) would than randomly drop in a combination that itself totaled up to the depreciated point total.

[BeastBruiser]

Would this plugin apply to all deaths or just PvP deaths? Frankly I would strongly appose it affecting all deaths. If I die while building or exploring, and come back to recover my stuff only to find a odd assortment of "equal value" crap, I would be pissed. Especially if i lost something like a ST dia god pick. But even losing some iron building armor would be very frustrating. Let alone if I had ore blocks or a beacon in my inventory and they were lost.

Honestly I see no reason for a plugin like this to affect anything except armor as it is the only thing that is worthless after a fight. Weapons are usually still good as their durability far outlasts that of armor and obviously potions don't drop unusable. I really don't see why this should affect blocks and tools at all, as they have no real impact on PvP.

We need to be careful with the plugins that we choose to add to the server as a large part of survival is building and surviving, not just PvP. If we use plugins that only cater towards PvP I fear we will alienate some of our player base.

As far as balancing it goes, if it just involves armor, it should be fairly easy. A simple algorithm to calculate the worth of each piece of armor based on quantity of material in the armor and durability left on it seems like it would work.
 

For example, if I die wearing a full diamond set of armor

• The helmet having 20% durability left (1 diamond gem)
• The chest having 38% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• The pants having 43% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• And the boots having 38% durability left (1 diamond gem)

that would equate, material wise, to 8 diamonds. Whether we chose to have that drop as an enchanted/unenchanted chest or just as diamond gems would be something we will have to decide. Personally I would suggest having it drop as diamond gems as the numbers may not always work out as perfectly as my illustration.

[BeastBruiser]

See: 

 

 

 

-Edit- 

 

Hey beast, instead of disliking my post you could just tell me what you disagree with? Thanks :)

Fair enough, It was a kneejerk reaction to seeing other people downvoting arguments they didn't agree with or downvoting comments trying to understand or clarify the concept. similar to you downvoting dizney07 just because he missed something or didn't quite understand how it would be put into place. Probably not the best reaction for me to take, But I felt some of the votes could stand to be evened back out.

[TornadoHorse]

We need to be careful with the plugins that we choose to add to the server as a large part of survival is building and surviving, not just PvP. If we use plugins that only cater towards PvP I fear we will alienate some of our player base.

 

We should be striving towards making the server better as a whole, whether or not it alienates the current player base. I think the feeling of the majority of the players is that we need to focus on having a PvP-focused server to differentiate ourselves from p.nerd.nu and to bring in a wider audience. If we only change things to what the current player base want, nothing will really change since those still playing are ones who enjoy the server how it is.

[dizney07]

See: 

 

 

 

-Edit- 

 

Hey beast, instead of disliking my post you could just tell me what you disagree with? Thanks :)

 

I read your post, however I was more asking Duff if he had a plan in place for this already. I wasn't taking the "suggestions" into account, because they possibly wont be included in this. Thanks though :)

[EeHee2000]

Would this plugin apply to all deaths or just PvP deaths? Frankly I would strongly appose it affecting all deaths. If I die while building or exploring, and come back to recover my stuff only to find a odd assortment of "equal value" crap, I would be pissed. Especially if i lost something like a ST dia god pick. But even losing some iron building armor would be very frustrating. Let alone if I had ore blocks or a beacon in my inventory and they were lost.

Honestly I see no reason for a plugin like this to affect anything except armor as it is the only thing that is worthless after a fight. Weapons are usually still good as their durability far outlasts that of armor and obviously potions don't drop unusable. I really don't see why this should affect blocks and tools at all, as they have no real impact on PvP.

We need to be careful with the plugins that we choose to add to the server as a large part of survival is building and surviving, not just PvP. If we use plugins that only cater towards PvP I fear we will alienate some of our player base.

As far as balancing it goes, if it just involves armor, it should be fairly easy. A simple algorithm to calculate the worth of each piece of armor based on quantity of material in the armor and durability left on it seems like it would work.

 

For example, if I die wearing a full diamond set of armor

• The helmet having 20% durability left (1 diamond gem)
• The chest having 38% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• The pants having 43% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• And the boots having 25% durability left (1 diamond gem)

that would equate, material wise, to 8 diamonds. Whether we chose to have that drop as an enchanted/unenchanted chest or just as diamond gems would be something we will have to decide. Personally I would suggest having it drop as diamond gems as the numbers may not always work out as perfectly as my illustration.

So, essentially you're suggesting that after a Diamond Armor fight, instead of an opponents armor dropping, Diamonds (equal to the value of whatever would've normally dropped) would drop instead so we don't end up with chest-plates that have say, 30 uses left but rather we get an equal value amount of Diamonds? 

I really like that idea, you've got my support if that's what you're trying to say. 

[BeastBruiser]

We should be striving towards making the server better as a whole, whether or not it alienates the current player base. I think the feeling of the majority of the players is that we need to focus on having a PvP-focused server to differentiate ourselves from p.nerd.nu and to bring in a wider audience. If we only change things to what the current player base want, nothing will really change since those still playing are ones who enjoy the server how it is.

 

I disagree that the majority of the players want a strictly PvP based server.If that was true, there would be few decorative builds and significantly more bunker styled builds than what we've seen over the last 10 revs that I've been around. How is alienating players going to bring in more players? I would like to keep existing players and draw more in.

I definitely agree we need to always be striving towards a better server, but i think we can do so without alienating existing players and damaging a play-style. Obviously some compromises will have to be made. I'm not suggesting we do nothing to promote PvP, I just want to be cautious in how we do so.

thus my suggestion in reference to this idea, i'm not opposed to it on a whole, I'm just looking for ways that we can cater to multiple play styles.

 

So, essentially you're suggesting that after a Diamond Armor fight, instead of an opponents armor dropping, Diamonds (equal to the value of whatever would've normally dropped) would drop instead so we don't end up with chest-plates that have say, 30 uses left but rather we get an equal value amount of Diamonds? 

I really like that idea, you've got my support if that's what you're trying to say. 

 

Yes, that is exactly what I was going after,

Another idea that just came to mind. Maybe have the killed player drop say, ~30 lvls of xp (corresponding to the amount of enchants on the loser's armor) to help the victor enchant whatever he makes with the spoils of the fight

[EeHee2000]

 

I disagree that the majority of the players want a strictly PvP based server.If that was true, there would be few decorative builds and significantly more bunker styled builds than what we've seen over the last 10 revs that I've been around. How is alienating players going to bring in more players? I would like to keep existing players and draw more in.

I definitely agree we need to always be striving towards a better server, but i think we can do so without alienating existing players and damaging a play-style. Obviously some compromises will have to be made. I'm not suggesting we do nothing to promote PvP, I just want to be cautious in how we do so.

thus my suggestion in reference to this idea, i'm not opposed to it on a whole, I'm just looking for ways that we can cater to multiple play styles.

 

 

Yes, that is exactly what I was going after,

Another idea that just came to mind. Maybe have the killed player drop say, ~30 lvls of xp (corresponding to the amount of enchants on the loser's armor) to help the victor enchant whatever he makes with the spoils of the fight

 

I've always kinda wondered what it'd be like for players to drop XP, but if that only happened when the killed player had something enchanted on them, I'd be more than willing to try that. 

[TheKingDuff]

Would this plugin apply to all deaths or just PvP deaths? Frankly I would strongly appose it affecting all deaths. If I die while building or exploring, and come back to recover my stuff only to find a odd assortment of "equal value" crap, I would be pissed. Especially if i lost something like a ST dia god pick. But even losing some iron building armor would be very frustrating. Let alone if I had ore blocks or a beacon in my inventory and they were lost.

Honestly I see no reason for a plugin like this to affect anything except armor as it is the only thing that is worthless after a fight. Weapons are usually still good as their durability far outlasts that of armor and obviously potions don't drop unusable. I really don't see why this should affect blocks and tools at all, as they have no real impact on PvP.

We need to be careful with the plugins that we choose to add to the server as a large part of survival is building and surviving, not just PvP. If we use plugins that only cater towards PvP I fear we will alienate some of our player base.

As far as balancing it goes, if it just involves armor, it should be fairly easy. A simple algorithm to calculate the worth of each piece of armor based on quantity of material in the armor and durability left on it seems like it would work.

 

For example, if I die wearing a full diamond set of armor

• The helmet having 20% durability left (1 diamond gem)
• The chest having 38% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• The pants having 43% durability left (3 diamond gems)
• And the boots having 38% durability left (1 diamond gem)

that would equate, material wise, to 8 diamonds. Whether we chose to have that drop as an enchanted/unenchanted chest or just as diamond gems would be something we will have to decide. Personally I would suggest having it drop as diamond gems as the numbers may not always work out as perfectly as my illustration.

I think this is actually a great idea. That is what spawned the idea initially, and maybe returning to a more simple stance is better. I do think though, that the armor should be enchanted though.