New rule layouts?

[Cyotie911]

It has been brought up in other posts that the numerous rules we have on our servers might be a bit overwhelming.  I thought I would start this thread to see about possibly coming up with a rectification to this problem. 

 

As first thought,  I am thinking that we should make players instantly aware of any rule that will get you banned instantly, on the spot.  These should be rules that are detrimental to the server play.  Racial or homophobic chat, xraying, and griefing (unless it's allowed).  The rest of the rules should be able to be called upon through various rule books or by direction to nerd.nu/rules

 

I know that I am probably forgetting rules that we will probably want to add to that small list but I just wanted to get this conversation started prior to starting my work day. 

 

I am open to any and all ideas, and as Mangus has previously stated:

I am always looking to improve things where they can be improved.

[Aypop]

Just wanted to say, I'm on mobile currently but will be adding to this discussion soon.
 
Alright I'm here! I've posted an attempt to summarize the rules here, while separating utility commands (facts about /modreq, protection, Citadel, etc), lists of banned items, and banning policy from the central rules not to break. I think this kind of compartmentalizing makes presenting the rules of the server much clearer. However, I'm open to any critique to improve the layout or listing of the rules.

 

As first thought,  I am thinking that we should make players instantly aware of any rule that will get you banned instantly, on the spot.  These should be rules that are detrimental to the server play.  Racial or homophobic chat, xraying, and griefing (unless it's allowed).  The rest of the rules should be able to be called upon through various rule books or by direction to nerd.nu/rules

 

Like you said, we may or may not want to lay out different tiers of rules depending on severity (griefing vs moderator impersonation). However, I don't think presenting them in different places will be helpful; rather, present them in order of severity (or in how likely you will be banned on the spot, which I might add largely depends on the moderators and admins present).

 

We might also want a second version of the rules that outlines specific examples, so as to prevent rule lawyering.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Aypop

[jchance]

I have posted on this topic in a few places including both admin discussions, in game with the other cadmins and Dumbo, and in this recent thread.

 

Rule Presentation on Server:

 

Being a cadmin I am lucky to have the least complicated rule structure of any server- xraying is not really an issue, we don't have complicated issues like crop grief on PVE, and there are no difficult concepts that are in flux like the current S revision.   That said, when a player joins C and sees this wall of text it does not give a good impression:

 

 

If I joined a server and was confronted with 33 signs of rules I'd think to myself "fuck this, I can't even walk around without these assholes banning me" and leave, just like many players do now.

 

I get that there have been extensive griefing problems in the past.   I understand that as one of the oldest minecraft servers in existence we have had our share of rule lawyering and forum drama, and hundreds of not thousands of ban appeals arguing with mods and admins.   However, that is not a new player's fault and we should not project that on to them the first time they join.

 

That is why I have proposed to the other cadmins (and they've agreed) to simplify the rules in the new C spawn currently in development.   This was my example I created for that discussion:

 

 

Granted, on PVE and S the basic set of rules would need to be a little more extensive, but it should never have to be 33 signs creating a wall of text.  Nobody reads that anyway- it either gets taken in and they leave thinking we're authoritarian assholes or their eyes just glaze over and they skip it.  With 5 basic rules they'll read them and then go have fun.

 

 

The argument I'm sure I'll read is that we need to define hate speech or being being disrespectful to other players.   I don't think thats a valid argument-  on C we always give warnings first for that kind of thing before banning, so there is no need to say "No hate speech, homophobia, or racism."   This is 2014, people know those things are bad, and if they don't they'll be banned soon enough.

 

If you want to list detailed, lawyered out rules?  Cool, do it in a /rulebook (but not 77 pages like the current C rulebook) or on the website.   Most players don't need that though- they just need to know the basics as presented above and have fun.

 

 

Banned Items and General Presentation of Information at Spawn:

 

Likewise, I've always hated the authoritarian "BANNED ITEMS" board that seems to get bigger and bigger for each rev, as if they needed something to fill up space in spawn.   In reality, players can't place banned items so there is no need to throw what they can't do in their face- they'll figure it out soon enough that TNT minecarts are banned when they try to place one.  If they ask in chat, there is always someone more than willing to point out that they're banned on this server.

 

 

Instead, I want to have a shift in how we present information at spawn to be kinder, gentler, and more welcoming-   Instead of saying "ITEM FRAMES ARE BANNED" we need to say "Hey buddy, if you need an item frame just do /modreq item frame!"   The same with flowing liquids and whatever else I am forgetting at the moment.    These items aren't banned, you just need help with them.  Offer that help instead of telling players what they can't do. 

 

We need to stop presenting mods as a police force and start presenting them as the player support group they are.  Instead of listing things players can't do we need to start listing things mods can do for players.   Change biomes, create protections, get builds moved, whatever nice things mods (or admins if it needs to be elevated) can do for the player.

 

Moderator Interactions with Players:

 

I can't speak for other servers but on C everyone has been giving warnings for bad behavior before bans.   Be it a direct message, a "no homophobia please" in general chat, or a kick to get their attention (my least favorite option), most mods warn before banning an account now.  I'd like to see this encouraged, even more so with a streamlined set of rules at spawn.

 

in summary (and this is all my opinion and not the opinion of other staff or the admins):

 

This server has been around a long time.   There has been years of rule lawyering, arguing on the forums, ban appeal trolling, and everything else.   This has colored our interactions with players as mods and admins where, in my opinion, we tend to take a hard line from the start where it is not really deserved by the player.   The people that run these servers are genuinely good people that care about the servers and the players but they're worn down by years of bullshit.   We need to stop that and start welcoming players in.

 

In summary, it's just fucking blocks.  You're supposed to have fun.

Edited August 26, 2014 by jchance
Fixed link

[roastnewt]

I couldn't have said it better than jchance. Our first priority when designing spawn should be to convince them that they want to play here. So spawn should showcase the building talent of the playerbase, explain how to get started, then get out of the way. Demanding that a new person be intimately familiar with every rule and every rule's edge cases before they've even decided to stay is a good way to scare people away.

[TheRandomnatrix]

I think it's pretty well established at this point that making it easier for players to understand the rules is a good idea. My main concern is finding a balance between simplification and understanding, to avoid any issues. And as previously mentioned the full set of rules will be clearly accessible.  

 

I don't know about C but people seem pretty good on P about pointing out the rules to people when needed, but leaving the important stuff to the moderators. It should stay that way. I'd like to suggest as a general way of conduct for players that rather than just saying hi to them upon first login(which I'm guilty of as well), people should make sure that new players feel comfortable and help them out by guiding them out of spawn and asking them if they need help getting introduced. I've gone that extra mile a few times and I really think it sets a good example for the servers and improves player retention. I'd like to see that attitude applied to all 3 servers.

 

In regards to banned blocks jchance I get your reasoning for not telling players what they can't do, but I think in general it's useful for players to know what they can and can't place.

 

Some other small side ideas I wanted to bring up along this:

• /rulebook also links to nerd.nu/rules in chat no matter the cooldown
• Dropping a rulebook gives you a small reminder in chat about being familiar with the rules(not sure how possible that is)
• Someone else mentioned this but maybe include some alert messages about various rules such as no xray, and make them stand out a bit better. One server I saw uses the random character to add a little movement to it to make it more noticeable, though I can maybe see that getting annoying if used in excess.

[SwitchViewz]

I like what jchance proposed, but for S and P perhaps also include in parentheses on the no hacking rule that no xraying is allowed. We should also include that they can type /rulebook for a expanded list of rules.

 

Since we also seem to be talking about moderator interaction with other players I'd like to chime in. There are often times when I am playing and some new player will say something racist in chat or homophobic and chat will immediately respond telling them that this is unacceptable. Often times they will apologize but then some moderator or admin will go and kick them anyway with a warning. I personally think that this is a bit to far, they had already been warned in chat and they even apologized. Why are we still kicking them? They might get a bad impression or think they are in serious trouble when all they did was make a simple mistake. I personally think that this needs to stop. If they are warned in chat by other people and they realize what they have done wrong, then we should not be kicking them.

[Difficult1]

 

I think it's pretty well established at this point that making it easier for players to understand the rules is a good idea. My main concern is finding a balance between simplification and understanding, to avoid any issues. And as previously mentioned the full set of rules will be clearly accessible.  

 

I don't know about C but people seem pretty good on P about pointing out the rules to people when needed, but leaving the important stuff to the moderators. It should stay that way. I'd like to suggest as a general way of conduct for players that rather than just saying hi to them upon first login(which I'm guilty of as well), people should make sure that new players feel comfortable and help them out by guiding them out of spawn and asking them if they need help getting introduced. I've gone that extra mile a few times and I really think it sets a good example for the servers and improves player retention. I'd like to see that attitude applied to all 3 servers.

 

In regards to banned blocks jchance I get your reasoning for not telling players what they can't do, but I think in general it's useful for players to know what they can and can't place.

 

Some other small side ideas I wanted to bring up along this:

• /rulebook also links to nerd.nu/rules in chat no matter the cooldown
• Dropping a rulebook gives you a small reminder in chat about being familiar with the rules(not sure how possible that is)
• Someone else mentioned this but maybe include some alert messages about various rules such as no xray, and make them stand out a bit better. One server I saw uses the random character to add a little movement to it to make it more noticeable, though I can maybe see that getting annoying if used in excess.

 

Well i think if they can get a general idea of the rules, they will catch on to the more complicated as they play. The /rulebook should be for a more "in depth" look at the rules