Survival Survival - Too PVP Heavy?

[Rhydderch7734]

I believe the Survival [PVP] server has started to lean too heavily towards the [PVP] aspect of the game.

 

I enjoy having PVP on, as it is closer to vanilla, and adds excitement to the game.  However, I always envisioned PVP as a series of random encounters, with the loot/XP being its own reward for the kill.  Some would go out of their way to find other players to kill, but for the most part combat would be a random occurrence, happening mostly in population centers (which, on this server, we must  all visit, as the spawn is the only place to find portals).

 

However, an increasing number of plugins being added to the server add no benefit to non-PVPers, or worse, hinder their chances.  Decapitation adds no value whatsoever for someone who simply mines and farms, not really going out of their way to get into trouble.  Killstreak rewards mean non-PVPers cannot even run away while trying to get to a portal.  Pearl cooldown, again, hinders players even when they are trying to espace a fall, or a lake of lava (a fraction of a second delay is all it takes when you're dealing with lava, and you miss your first shot).

 

Merely speaking my piece.  The server is what we want it to be.

 

- Rhydderch7734

[TornadoHorse]

Decapitation adds no value whatsoever for someone who simply mines and farms, not really going out of their way to get into trouble.

 

It doesn't take away anything from those kinds of players, either. What would you suggest to solve this, if it even is a problem?

 

Killstreak rewards mean non-PVPers cannot even run away while trying to get to a portal.

 

Personally I'm not bothered about the killstreaks buffs we have. They don't offer enough of an advantage to be worthwhile, I'd much rather see killstreaks go back to how they used to be with just a message in chat. There aren't too many players that go around killing anything they see, if there are, avoid them. You get a speed boost for a few seconds. Unless you're actively being hunted down and you're a few blocks away from the attacker, this provides no advantage.

 

Pearl cooldown, again, hinders players even when they are trying to espace a fall, or a lake of lava (a fraction of a second delay is all it takes when you're dealing with lava, and you miss your first shot).

 

This has not been enabled yet and is still in the discussion phase. The first discussion thread can be found here, however this thread will soon be locked. There is a second poll up here that you can vote on and give your opinion.

 

Players enjoy PvPing. Those who don't are not forced to, but are presented with the opportunity to be able to do so. The few plugins that we do have that change PvP enhance the experience with little to no difference for players who don't want to be affected. If you feel things are unbalanced offer a solution to balance it back out, we're always open to discuss new ideas. 

[djt832]

Ive been playing on S for quite some time now, and I can assure you there is much, much less PvP going on than there used to be.

 

Decapitation is just a fun plug-in. Having a player head gives you no perks, and there is not really any value to them other than showing off you killed someone. Because of this, I dont think it creates any disadvantage to those of us who do not PvP often or at all.

 

Even if a player was not given killstreak rewards, they would most likely still be carrying pearls or a speed potion, both of which make it easy for someone to catch up to you.

 

I wouldnt pass judgement on the pearl cooldown yet. If we get a trail period, that would give everyone a chance to experience it. Thinking back on the times I have used pearls, I really dont have to spam them to accomplish what I am trying to do.

 

I am glad to see you posting on the forums Rhydderech, you brought up some great points in chat today and I hope more people will respond to this discussion. Don't let any negative feedback discourage you, its great to see newer players to the server getting involved!

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited February 5, 2014 by djt832

[GetaFever]

Ive been playing on S for quite some time now, and I can assure you there is much, much less PvP going on than there used to be.

 

 

Preach it. Much less is probably an understatement, to be honest. S is like a ghost town in terms of PvP compared to revisions 16, 17, & 18.

[tobylane]

I don't agree, the plugins merely add some value to PvP. What of the underground/hidden hermit lifestyle needs a plugin?

 

I had a base on a PvP server that had a nether plugin. It made portals one way, and the nether 1:1 scale. I forgot to take obsidian through and walked the 800 ish blocks to spawn through the nether. I'm not sure that's suitable for Nerd, but it's a hermit-helping plugin.

[Rhydderch7734]

Tornado (and others), it's not the specific effects that are of concern; it's the idea behind them.

 

Even more fundamental aspects of the server seem geared towards PVP; regimented, grinder-based, arena PVP.  Take the XP boost for killing mobs.  It benefits me, and everyone else, regardless of PVP activity, and I'm not saying it should be removed (I like it).  But where is the XP boost for mining gems?  Breeding animals?  The XP boost for killing mobs is directly linked, in the minds of everyone I've asked, to the public mob grinders, which are used mostly (from what I've seen) by PVPers, who frequently need to create new enchanted sets of weapons and armor for their battles.  I don't use the grinders; it's too dangerous to go in the city unless, again, you're geared for PVP, and while I do go through some tools from mining and plowing, I get enough XP in one night of hunting outside my base, to completely repair/enchant any tools that need replacing.  I have never needed to replace a set of armor (mobs drop plenty, and since I don't PVP, I don't need God armor).

 

Were I to get into PVP, I would need to frequent the grinders, make my God armor, and turn from building, mining, farming, and all other aspects of the game, in order to remain competitive; compare this to a regular game, which would require PVPers to hunt, mine, and breed animals in order to get their enchants (or trade with someone who did enchanting regularly, with a full library), rather than use the convenient facilities designed specifically for them.

 

To clarify, as text is an awful medium for expressing feelings; I'm not trying to be hostile, or to bring out the tinfoil hats and wave anti-PVP-lobby flags.  I am merely stating some observations I have made.

[Rhydderch7734]

Actually, a number of problems seem to stem from this.

 

Many have mentioned that it is difficult to get players to stay on the server for more than a few weeks after every revision.  This may come from a bit of an identity crisis.

 

Many of the players say the server is for PVP; then perhaps it ought to be more arena-style, as the PVPers seem to be dissatisfied with the half-measures for PVP.  If it's not purely PVP, and there is some survival, then many of the PVP features need to be recalled to make the game more challenging (which is, after all, what makes it fun), as a lot of people looking for a Survival experience leave when they find the heavy PVP-bias.  In the end, neither party is really satisfied, and not many players stay for long.

 

The grinders are a huge factor.  There's really no risk to going out it full God gear if all it takes to replace the set, is to spend a few minutes in the grinder.  Players would be much less likely to spam potions and ender pearls (a source of much debate) if these things required actual work to obtain, instead of a few minutes at the End grinder, the Blaze grinder, etc.  Suddenly, PVP becomes a risky business, which forces players to be more strategic, making the game more involving, and more fun.  Those who wanted more arena-like PVP could find a server for that.

[unce]

The grinders are a huge factor.  There's really no risk to going out it full God gear if all it takes to replace the set, is to spend a few minutes in the grinder.  Players would be much less likely to spam potions and ender pearls (a source of much debate) if these things required actual work to obtain, instead of a few minutes at the End grinder, the Blaze grinder, etc.  Suddenly, PVP becomes a risky business, which forces players to be more strategic, making the game more involving, and more fun.  Those who wanted more arena-like PVP could find a server for that.

 

Making gear/potions/pearls harder to obtain would discourage players from gearing up on a regular basis. It is already hard to find armored pvp.

[GetaFever]

Tornado (and others), it's not the specific effects that are of concern; it's the idea behind them.

 

Even more fundamental aspects of the server seem geared towards PVP; regimented, grinder-based, arena PVP.  Take the XP boost for killing mobs.  It benefits me, and everyone else, regardless of PVP activity, and I'm not saying it should be removed (I like it).  But where is the XP boost for mining gems?  Breeding animals?  The XP boost for killing mobs is directly linked, in the minds of everyone I've asked, to the public mob grinders, which are used mostly (from what I've seen) by PVPers, who frequently need to create new enchanted sets of weapons and armor for their battles.  I don't use the grinders; it's too dangerous to go in the city unless, again, you're geared for PVP, and while I do go through some tools from mining and plowing, I get enough XP in one night of hunting outside my base, to completely repair/enchant any tools that need replacing.  I have never needed to replace a set of armor (mobs drop plenty, and since I don't PVP, I don't need God armor).

 

Were I to get into PVP, I would need to frequent the grinders, make my God armor, and turn from building, mining, farming, and all other aspects of the game, in order to remain competitive; compare this to a regular game, which would require PVPers to hunt, mine, and breed animals in order to get their enchants (or trade with someone who did enchanting regularly, with a full library), rather than use the convenient facilities designed specifically for them.

 

To clarify, as text is an awful medium for expressing feelings; I'm not trying to be hostile, or to bring out the tinfoil hats and wave anti-PVP-lobby flags.  I am merely stating some observations I have made.

 

Our server has plumped EXP has a whole. That means all EXP is multiplied by a certain amount. While you are right that killing mobs does yield significantly more EXP than mining or breeding does, you are wrong that it is because PvPers need them to. Mob breeding and Ore mining is a terrible source of EXP in vanilla minecaft and you will see that in every multiplayer server unless they have customized it otherwise.

 

Also, you say that a "regular game" requires PvPers to hunt, mine and breed animals to get their enchants. The funny thing is that we all do hunt, mine and a surprising amount breed animals (to acquire an efficient food source). It's just that using grinders is the most efficient method of gathering EXP; just like it is in probably 99.9% of the Minecraft servers out there.

 

Actually, a number of problems seem to stem from this.

 

Many have mentioned that it is difficult to get players to stay on the server for more than a few weeks after every revision.  This may come from a bit of an identity crisis.

 

Many of the players say the server is for PVP; then perhaps it ought to be more arena-style, as the PVPers seem to be dissatisfied with the half-measures for PVP.  If it's not purely PVP, and there is some survival, then many of the PVP features need to be recalled to make the game more challenging (which is, after all, what makes it fun), as a lot of people looking for a Survival experience leave when they find the heavy PVP-bias.  In the end, neither party is really satisfied, and not many players stay for long.

 

The grinders are a huge factor.  There's really no risk to going out it full God gear if all it takes to replace the set, is to spend a few minutes in the grinder.  Players would be much less likely to spam potions and ender pearls (a source of much debate) if these things required actual work to obtain, instead of a few minutes at the End grinder, the Blaze grinder, etc.  Suddenly, PVP becomes a risky business, which forces players to be more strategic, making the game more involving, and more fun.  Those who wanted more arena-like PVP could find a server for that.

 

Survival already lacks PvP almost entirely not including arenas, in my opinion. Making potions and ender pearls difficult to obtain would fully eliminate PvP. Not to mention the countless players that would quit.

 

There is risk to PvPing. Some of us don't have the patience or time to be mining all the time. I don't know about you, but it takes me a lot longer than "a few minutes" to replace a set. 

 

The last little bit actually made me laugh because that's just it: This is an arena-like PvP server. We have arenas every week. That's how we like it.

 

Please hear me out as I'm not trying to be short or rude, but a large fraction of the player base on Survival prefer PvP heavily. This server has always been PvP heavy/oriented. MCPublic hosts a server that sounds much more like your style, PvE. The severe altering or changing of the Survival to cater to the type that prefers minimal PvP has been the source of many past conflicts. In fact, PvE was created for those types of players. 

 

As a final note, please understand that I'm not trying to discourage you from playing Survival, I just think I can speak for Survival when I say that your idea of significantly altering it probably won't get very far. If you disagree, that's fine. I suggest making a poll on your ideas. 

[TornadoHorse]

Survival already lacks PvP almost entirely not including arenas, in my opinion. Making potions and ender pearls difficult to obtain would fully eliminate PvP. Not to mention the countless players that would quit.

 

Before we had plugins such as enchantism and XP plump gear for PvP was a lot more difficult to get, it was a huge grind to even get 1 set to fight with. There was a lot less PvP because usually you'd be risking everything you had (armour etc.). To counteract we added plugins that cut out a huge chunk of the grind to get armour, we felt since everyone would have easier access to the best armour that it might spark some life back into PvP.

 

Please hear me out as I'm not trying to be short or rude, but a large fraction of the player base on Survival prefer PvP heavily. This server has always been PvP heavy/oriented. MCPublic hosts a server that sounds much more like your style, PvE. The severe altering or changing of the Survival to cater to the type that prefers minimal PvP has been the source of many past conflicts. In fact, PvE was created for those types of players.

 

Survival hasn't always been focused on PvP. When this server was very new it was a mix between PvE and Survival, with PvE zones iirc. Shortly after that when the PvE server came up we became more like a true Survival server, but there definitely wasn't any aim to be a PvP server. It was only until around revisions 13-14 that we began to take a greater interest in PvP due to 2 reasons, the SAdmins at the time and how more of the playerbase were interested in PvP, things like killstreaks and a PvP leaderboard were added. We are known as the PvP server because we have PvP enabled, not because that's all that happens here. We are a Survival server and I don't think we're too heavily PvP based at all. The 2 plugins that were added, enchantism and XP plump, give an advantage to everyone on the server, not just PvPers. I think that goes the same for the majority of the plugins we add since we don't want to change the server just to suit someone's taste.

[djt832]

The 2 plugins that were added, enchantism and XP plump, give an advantage to everyone on the server, not just PvPers. I think that goes the same for the majority of the plugins we add since we don't want to change the server just to suit someone's taste.

Enchantism and XP plump have helped greatly in mining and general resource gathering. Before these plugins, I would spend hours trying to get a Fortune III pick. Also, they help me be able to gear up for PvP if I want. I dont spend a lot of time gathering resources and such, so being able to pick my enchants rather than having a chest full of crap enchanted items helps with both aspects of the game.