Rule Clarification: Chat Rules Clarification

[Silversunset01]

Its been noticed that a number of players are using "reee" in general chat, and it has come to light that this is often used in a derogatory/abusive manner towards people (please see this Know your Meme article if you'd like more information on the background of it).

We are not convinced that any of our players are using this meme in an intentionally derogatory way however it may not be apparent to those who are affected by it. As we are attempting to keep our servers friendly and open to everyone we are asking people at this time to please refrain from using this meme in general chat/mumble.

As a reminder: what goes on in your clanchats is entirely up to you, we do not actively moderate them. 

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to staff.

[torteela]

On an unrelated note, everyone is now able to reply to topics in this subforum.

[Zaliek]

As someone who works with actually autistic people this is quite insulting and not representative of the majority of autistic people. Typically I see it used to insult someone who is getting frustrated by something someone is doing that they don't consider a big deal; implying "What is wrong with you? You must be autistic if this bothers you.".

[DrTim58]

If one is to make a word out to be used for offensive purposes, not only will it draw unwanted attention to people meant to be offended, but it will also result in more people using it in said negative connotation. I do understand why some viewed it as needing to be banned, but by banning it we don't do any good for those it would possibly offend. If anything it gives them motive to be hurt. One can turn any form of word into something used to offend others, as we've seen in the past with words such as "faggot" (going from meaning bundle of sticks to it's modern negative connotation referring to homosexuals) and it is no surprise that action will be taken to those changes. Though by making it into a big deal we only give it more power over those who would possibly be offended by it. The key to these things, especially in this case where it is clearly stated that it is to the general consensus of the staff that it is not being used in a remotely offensive term, as previously stated by Silver,

On 8/16/2017 at 9:36 PM, Silversunset01 said:

We are not convinced that any of our players are using this meme in an intentionally derogatory way however it may not be apparent to those who are affected by it. As we are attempting to keep our servers friendly and open to everyone we are asking people at this time to please refrain from using this meme in general chat/mumble.

is to simply not let them offend you. At the end of the day, a bigoted insult is something that should only prove an annoyance to which should be shrugged aside as a fool's attempt to express their cruel beliefs. Why give them power by granting yet another means to a small arsenal? I do believe that by banning the phrase "ree," things will only escalate in a negative connotation as people will see it as a way to offend those vulnerable to it. If anything it will, as zaliek previously mentioned, imply those offended or trying to enforce it are autistic, thus leading to it becoming more of an issue. As I mentioned, I understand why this is banned, but if anything it only makes autistic individuals feel more attacked. If we are to keep ourselves friendly, we must understand that actions such as these will only further isolate groups of individuals afflicted with such unfortunate troubles. I do hope we can all reach a universal agreement and understand that banning this simply will make things worse on autistic individuals despite the intentions of the action

[Silversunset01]

10 minutes ago, DoctorTim58 said:

I do understand why some viewed it as needing to be banned, but by banning it we don't do any good for those it would possibly offend. 

I want to clarify, we have not flat out said "this is a banned phrase" we're asking people to keep it out of public spaces. This would apply to any phrase or statement that falls under the rules we have currently: 

Quote

No harassment or excessive trolling

No bigotry / hate speech including but not limited to ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, and religion.

No disruptive arguments/discussions in global chat

 

Initially there was no plans for us to even have to make a public statement regarding this, staff were instructed to have a private conversation when it came up in the hopes that it would die down on its own. It appeared that some people had the wrong impression of this and so we've decided to put this out so everyone has the same information.

[DrTim58]

5 minutes ago, Silversunset01 said:

I want to clarify, we have not flat out said "this is a banned phrase" we're asking people to keep it out of public spaces. This would apply to any phrase or statement that falls under the rules we have currently: 

 

Initially there was no plans for us to even have to make a public statement regarding this, staff were instructed to have a private conversation when it came up in the hopes that it would die down on its own. It appeared that some people had the wrong impression of this and so we've decided to put this out so everyone has the same information.

I do appreciate the demeanor to which this response was given and clarification upon the error I made of stating it to be a "banned phrase." Despite my own viewings on how I consider it to be banned, I will take that into account with formulating this response. As I mentioned, the nobility of this cause is notable, but ultimately still reinforces the possible use of the phrase for negative connotation. By placing restrictions upon it, despite it's full availability in private messages and clanchats, it still will still make autistic individuals feel more isolated if they have to be told something is supposed to offend them. I know that is the antithesis of the intention of the restriction and that is was stressed that this is only in global, but the point still stands that it's simply forcing something to have a different meaning than by the people using it. It simply is unfair both to autistic people (in the sense that they should be offended by this phrase. I know that's not at all what's being said, but is what will be interpreted) and to people who often use the phrase as a means to signify a humorous depiction of frustration as it makes them believe what they're saying is wrong (or make players think that the admins are fun police, which is FAKE NEWS). I perfectly understand the reason for these restrictions but at the end of the day, what good will it ultimately do? It removes use of a commonly used phrase (which probably will just die in a year or two anyways) in the most viewed form of server communication (in-game that is) and just makes people feel like dicks or that the admins don't understand the normal player's mindset (which is false, as staff members all are essentially just devoted members of the community). I feel I've already mentioned enough how it will simply isolate autistic individuals, but would like to simply add that it just seems like a move that wasn't thought out on how all parties affected would feel about it. I'm glad this information was made public as so we're all kept equally-informed upon this matter as it allows for us all to have a mature discussion relating to the topic at hand 

[Silversunset01]

4 minutes ago, DoctorTim58 said:

As I mentioned, the nobility of this cause is notable, but ultimately still reinforces the possible use of the phrase for negative connotation. By placing restrictions upon it, despite it's full availability in private messages and clanchats, it still will still make autistic individuals feel more isolated if they have to be told something is supposed to offend them.

Its not a matter of telling someone they *should* be offended. We've reached a point with this particular meme that people are already offended and this was the course of action we chose to take. The intent was never to draw attention or make a big deal of it, but here we are.

If you have other concerns feel free to find me in-game or in discord and perhaps I can answer your questions better.

[DrTim58]

On 8/24/2017 at 8:40 PM, Silversunset01 said:

Its not a matter of telling someone they *should* be offended. We've reached a point with this particular meme that people are already offended and this was the course of action we chose to take. The intent was never to draw attention or make a big deal of it, but here we are.

If you have other concerns feel free to find me in-game or in discord and perhaps I can answer your questions better.

It is disheartening to hear this has offended an undisclosed amount of people, but without known the amount of people (in the form of a rough estimate if there is a high number, and it is more than understandable if they are kept anonymous) how are we to truly understand the gravity of this? After all, if per example, somebody uses a term such as "diseased" (perhaps not my greatest example to date) to directly refer to a group of people, to which are part of a specific minority due to either a genetic misfortune or ethnic background, are we to also restrict that phrase for it now being used for offensive reasons? It simply is unfair to those who do use it for non offensive reasons within the global. I understand it is clear my response does not leave a sway upon opinions, so I shall leave it at this as there is no use in my further responding to these matters as this was simply just my expression of my views upon these matters. I thank you for the courtesy shown and correction of previous misconceptions I had previously had upon this subject as so I, and those reading, may remain better informed on these recent happenings. Thank you and have a nice day

[Guest]

On 8/16/2017 at 7:36 PM, Silversunset01 said:

As a reminder: what goes on in your clanchats is entirely up to you, we do not actively moderate them. 

 

not sure what much of this thread means because memes aren't really my thing but does this mean literally anything goes in clanchats as long as the owner is cool with it? rule clarification on that alone would be appreciated

[Silversunset01]

2 hours ago, AvadaKedavra said:

not sure what much of this thread means because memes aren't really my thing but does this mean literally anything goes in clanchats as long as the owner is cool with it? rule clarification on that alone would be appreciated

Clanchats are opt-in and as such we do not moderate them the same way global is moderated. If someone reports harassment or some other serious offense we may look into it but otherwise if everyone in the clanchat is fine with it, anything goes.

[Mumberthrax]

First posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/aij9pz/pve_suggestion_box_responses_for_rev_23_1/ef5spbi/?context=3

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=REEE

"Reee" is an internet meme. It has its ancient origins in an attempt to insult people who cannot control their temper who happen to be autistic - it has long since evolved past that, stripped out the old offensive elements, to refer merely to people who cannot control their temper/emotions, and in particular is a sort of self-parody used by the speaker to mock himself or herself after or during a moment of mild distress.

An example usage would be "Normies get out! REEE!" when someone who is heavily addicted to memes encounters someone who doesn't live in their mom's basement. It is the memester being self-deprecating, making fun of himself/herself for being part of an insular culture that is rife with absurdity that benefits society and humanity at large in a questionably miniscule degree - if at all.

Another example might be, "Darn phantoms got me again. Reee!" It is not serious, it is a mild annoyance since dying by phantoms is a common annoyance, but hardly a serious setback for most players. It mocks the player affected by the phantom's being annoying zergers.

In both of these examples, which are almost archetypal in their form for the use of the meme/exclamation, there is no malice involved, no offense intended, no connection in the least to autism or any other demographic (except normal, well-adjusted normies - which are in fact not the target of the parody in its use in that case). The target of the parody, the only negative aspect of the meme/exclamation, is the person expressing it.

There is precisely ONE exception to the above, and that is a variant in which a person attempts to use the exclamation in order to mock someone else - this is antiquated and generally itself indicates the user of the meme has a low meme-IQ, so ultimately is still a form of self-parody, but without the user being cognizant. This can lead to some confusion, but ultimately is harmless. This is the one case where I personally do not mind the USER being moderated for their USE of language to attempt to harass/insult. HOWEVER: there is an exception to this exception, and that is when it is used in a playful, teasing manner, where it is a parody of this exception - say your friend is killed by a phantom and whines a little bit, and you tell him/her "reee, time to sleep". This is a less common, but entirely trivial use of the meme - comparable to "waahh, time to sleep". It might be considered rude, but it really depends on the relationship and the mood of the people involved in the interaction.

This is my assessment of the phrase. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think I'm off by much if any. Anyone who thinks "reee" is offensive is a soccer mom busybody virtue signalling normie, the cancer that is killing our civilization - comparable to article 13 which bans memes in the EU. If you only think its offensive because someone else told you it is, then you still have a chance at redemption into the realm of well-adjusted non-soccer-mom normies - just read what I've written above and consider that sometimes your associates are mistaken.

So, having read the above, if the phrase is unbanned then the entire gaming community of nerd.nu (at least those with the ability to read, and with a sense of humor {which connotes intelligence}) will know and recognize that the staff of nerd.nu is run by competent, reasonable, clever and funny admins, techadmins, and moderators, who are incredibly attractive and deserving of respect and all the best in life. However, if after reading the above, every admin, techadmin, moderator (yes that means you!) does NOT unban the meme/exclamation "reee", then you will all be perceived by the entirety of the sensible nerd.nu gaming community as humorless, willfully-ignorant, and dare I say, nincompoops - normies of the lowest form, a pox on fun and perhaps worst of all... turning a harmless and societally stabilizing source of humor BACK into it's earliest proto-forms before it had offensiveness stripped out of it. That choice is yours, moderators, administrators, techadmins. IF you want to be seen as nincompoop willfully ignorant creators of pain and misery for not only memesters but people on the autism spectrum as well, fun-suckers without the intelligence to understand humor (or even pretend to get it), that's your decision.

But if you want to be seen as great, as attractive and with-it, as intelligent and literate, competent and reasonable , and most of all, sensitive to the psychological harm your actions can cause to people susceptible to the toxic form of this word when separated from its humor-mediated evolution into its present form, then the phrase itself will be unbanned, and normal rules against harassment will suffice for moderating people who misuse ANY words in our language (or memeluage) to intentionally harm another. It's simpler, it requires less work, easier rules, less bureaucracy, less drama, and less annoyance, and will boost your credibility. Why create work for yourself when there's no benefit, when the only benefit is entirely imaginary due to unintentional ignorance? Wiser to make your job easier, and eliminate unnecessary tension like with a wave of a magic wand in your hand.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Mumberthrax
fixed hyperlinks, clarified "user of the meme", phrasing

[Flumper]

I'm not personally offended by people saying it, but I know for a fact that several members of this community have autistic family members who have been harassed in real life by people ree-ing at them. This is mostly a very friendly community and allowing people to freely use a term that is very offensive to some people just doesn't seem consistent with the community's tone.

The tone of your post and your choice of language makes it seem like you're more interested in provoking people and playing up to a stereotype rather than initiating a civil discussion. If you want to convince people, maybe try approaching them respectfully instead of insulting them for disagreeing with you.

[Mumberthrax]

Flumper, I'm going to temporarily disregard the offense I feel at your patronizing tone and attempts at mind-reading and apparent lack of a sense of humor. I skirted around the meat of the trick going on here in order to avoid creating imagery that might be triggering, but its apparent that I need to go straight to it:

By saying this word means this offensive thing, you are directly harming autistic people.

Let me say that again: by making this expression into something people associate with guilt or shame on a *demographic-wide level*, you are yourself suggesting that autistic people have a predisposition to antisocial behavior and should feel personally offended and shamed by this word.

You appear to be entirely missing the purpose of the healing aspect of humor as an evolutionary process for mediating the offense out of the expression. The world we all would prefer to live in is one where these words have no power to harm, where misconduct is treated the same no matter who you are, and poison is neutralized entirely by a laugh. If a child is lashing out due to pain they've been subjected to, there is no need to take that and double the pain for all by unwittingly meddling with the cultural mechanisms that are desperately seeking to bring psychological balance.

If you took personal offense at the suggestion that being unable to understand humor, and then meddling with things you don't understand, makes you a nincompoop, then I apologize for your lack of ability to detect the humor and utter void of tangible malice in that very statement.

I took offense at what YOU said about ME, but I can dispel that by pointing out that you're making yourself into a joke by being a soccermod. There is still hope for you - if you read these words and meditate on them, I am sure you will grow to realize that your own soft bigotry can be set aside for the betterment of society, in particular for the demographic you claim to want to protect.

[Mumberthrax]

I'm going to reiterate this in the clearest, most unambiguous language I can presently muster - thanks to Flumper for helping me to realize there are more people without a sense of humor than i actually realized:

By making this expression into a forbidden word, every time anyone thinks about it being banned, they will more strongly form the association in their minds eye the notion that autistic people cannot control their tempers and are subjects of mockery and embarrassment. YOU are responsible for the reinforcement of this image if you set this phrase apart.

To those without a legitimate sense of humor who actually took offense to my jibes in my original comment: understand that the topic is serious, and I forgive you for not getting the humor I attempted to employ. To Flumper, stop being a dick to funny people and autistic people.

[fazaden]

We're locking this thread because it is going very off the rails. What is "just a joke" to some people is not taken the same way by everyone. This isn't some kind of instaban offense, it's more of a "hey man, that's not cool, please knock it off" thing. End of discussion.