barneygale Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Yo, It would be nice if there was a clear policy on moderators having their privileges re-instated. The admins have been doing a fantastic job at making the mod nomination process faster, more inclusive, and more open. However, it doesn't seem right to me that mods who've had their privileges removed for many months can be re-instated without a vote or even an announcement. Players usually have to play for months before they are considered for moderator, and once that happens we have a clear process for appointing mods that allows every staff member to vote. Ordinary players are also informed of potential new moderators, and feedback from players on whether someone would make a mod is always welcomed by the head admins. I appreciate that moderators who have left for only a few weeks/months shouldn't be voted on - we shouldn't discourage mods from taking breaks by threatening them with bureaucracy - but for extended periods of absence it's in the servers' best interest to consider past moderators as if they had never been mod. I would suggest a cut-off point of 4-6 months. Thoughts/ideas? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four_Down Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 This topic has been mentioned a bit before. I agree that there should be some sort of cut off point, the time you suggested of 6 months seems sufficient. I'd definitely like to hear see some community discussion on this topic. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdavison Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 To be honest this post feels a little bit like a witch hunt. I'm unsure how making old mods go through the process again would serve the community better. If someone has proven they can do the job before, and then some time passes and they want to do it again, why would going through the process again be better for anyone? Quickly re-modding people has no effect on the "new mod" discussions or how many new mods get selected, as far as it seems to me anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderMan Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 To be honest this post feels a little bit like a witch hunt. I'm unsure how making old mods go through the process again would serve the community better. If someone has proven they can do the job before, and then some time passes and they want to do it again, why would going through the process again be better for anyone? Quickly re-modding people has no effect on the "new mod" discussions or how many new mods get selected, as far as it seems to me anyway. That should depend on how long the person has been inactive, and how much the specific server community has changed. People don't like to see "random" people "cut in line" per se. Those are just my observations. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzinbee Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I don't feel that we should make them go through the selection process again however I do think that they should have a complete recap on the mod training. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneygale Posted January 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 To be honest this post feels a little bit like a witch hunt. I'm unsure how making old mods go through the process again would serve the community better. If someone has proven they can do the job before, and then some time passes and they want to do it again, why would going through the process again be better for anyone? Quickly re-modding people has no effect on the "new mod" discussions or how many new mods get selected, as far as it seems to me anyway. I didn't mean it as a witch hunt. I know there have been a couple of semi-contentious re-moddings done recently, but personally I have no problem with either person being mod. I just wonder if sooner or later, someone like me or carver will come back and say "mod pls!" and then get upset when we get rejected. Equally a former mod in good standing might come back and be denied by the head admins. I also think that being nominated once before, in MCPublic's 5-year history, is not necessarily a sign that they'd be suitable under current guidelines. When I was first modded it was quite common for mods to receive no training, no talk of responsibilities, and minimal supervision. Most of the people who voted yes/no to my nomination aren't here anymore. The head admins then had different priorities to what they do now. Crucially, the server communities have evolved too! I don't think many americans would be happy if Bush was re-instated as president in 2016, simply because he was approved once before. While I'm not suggesting that all mods should be subject to periodic elections/review (it would be waaaaaay too much hassle!) it seems to me that we already have a good process for deciding whether past mods can come back, and that is just a regular ol' mod nomination. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzinbee Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 As far as I'm aware if a moderator has left and not caused harm and been demodded or banned or done whatever, they are allowed back with a refresher on how to handle situations on the server. I can see the idea that people should all be on equal terms for having mod status and I know that having mod status in the past shouldn't be a permanent ticket to receiving modship whenever you feel like it. We take into account the number of times players ask to be demodded aswell, we don't allow people to keep on demodding themselves and coming back too many times. But I don't see why rejecting a past mod that has come back to help out the community would be a good plan, especially if they left for a valid reason eg didn't rage quit or didn't get banned for replacing the spawn with sponge blocks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneygale Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Both the mods I alluded above were forcedly demodded, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denevien Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I believe I know the two of which you speak. One, I see no logs or anything discussing why/if they were removed, and we can't very well go on hear say. The other involves a situation where policy has changed, as apparent in some related ban appeals. But to the original topic, from the expectations for staff: "If you are feeling stressed or burned out by staff duties, we can temporarily remove your mod powers at your request to give you a chance to take a break. We'll be more than happy to re-enable them whenever you are ready to rejoin us." Currently, mods that have been gone a while have to spend time back in the community for a bit before we remod them. Then, we make them go through a retraining session. We will discuss this, but this does not guarantee anything will change. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomnatrix Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 A few weeks ago I hounded Denevien on this very topic, feeling that there should be a renomination process. However, after discussing with him I am now very much against it. Most of the time, the person is trusted enough that there isn't really much reason to not let them recontinue moderating. Denevien also mentioned that a 1 month reintegration into the community be done, which was the case for the recent names in question. There was also a need for retraining for new rules and policies, which was also enforced in the recent remoddings. Old returning mods are expected to be held to the same standards as new mods, and if they fail to meet those standards then they are quickly removed. I feel making a big spectacle of someone returning who may have left for personal reasons to cause more harm than good. I also argued that some of the new staff would not know the people coming back, however when you consider that the we have the "No" vote(don't get sidetracked on whether this should be the case or not. It'll derail the thread and we already have other threads for it) in the voting process to include not knowing someone, then it dawns that not all the staff know each other to begin with. This creates an impossible standard for returning mods to be known by all. Perhaps if an extremely large portion of current staff, including none of the head or server admins, don't know them, but this is often not the case. Also, many of the older staff that quit their position years ago can still be easily contacted to get an idea for why that person left and whether they should be allowed back. That should depend on how long the person has been inactive, and how much the specific server community has changed. People don't like to see "random" people "cut in line" per se. Those are just my observations. They aren't "cutting in line" if they've already become a mod before. It also doesn't slow down or prevent new mods from being created. So long as they are properly retrained and reintegrated into the community then I see no problem. I don't think many americans would be happy if Bush was re-instated as president in 2016, simply because he was approved once before. While I'm not suggesting that all mods should be subject to periodic elections/review (it would be waaaaaay too much hassle!) it seems to me that we already have a good process for deciding whether past mods can come back, and that is just a regular ol' mod nomination. Comparing this to real world government and politics is fallacious and misleading. There can only be 1 president at a given time, whereas we can have an arbitrary number of moderators. There are also other reasons for this being a bad comparison not worth going into. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theclefe Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 In general, I have no problem with former mods resuming their duties. They've already been confirmed as a trusted member of our community, and if they want to recontribute then the more support the better. In terms of mods forcibly removed, they should certainly receive more scrutiny. But one must consider the group that once removed that person's power was the same that removed it. I doubt the decision to reestablish is taken lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCKONN Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 In any case, an evaluation of a returning staff member's abilities should be conducted before any consideration of allowing their abilities to be returned to them, with the exception of shorter cases of absence of a staff member's own volition. Cases surrounding staff members who've been forcibly de-modded are, have been, and will be subject to more scrutiny in evaluation, considering the circumstances of their de-modding as well as actions to public/private knowledge they may have taken in the interim. That being said, there are several instances to the general public's knowledge where the facts pertaining to a de-mod were skewed, biased, or acted on rashly, all of which should and most likely are treated with appropriate leniency in recompense for errors in judgement at the time of actions taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneygale Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Ignoring the idea of re-nomination for a second, does everyone agree a "welcome back" post should be made on the subreddit once their powers are restored (through whatever process)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denevien Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Ignoring the idea of re-nomination for a second, does everyone agree a "welcome back" post should be made on the subreddit once their powers are restored (through whatever process)? I don't. I feel they got their share of pomp and circumstance when they were first modded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoHorse Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I agree that past mods should be treated the same as any regular player if it's been 6+ months since they stepped down. After this time they should have to be brought up in the discussion thread and then voted on like everybody else. If they're a good mod then this process shouldn't effect them getting their position back, it might just delay it slightly which will give them time to get to know the community better. If they were forcibly removed from the staff team or came to 'mutual agreement' (either leave or get kicked out) then they should definitely not be fast tracked into getting their powers back. I think they should be given the chance to redeem themselves, but the discussion process will filter between those who have and haven't changed. When reintroducing staff, I don't think they should come back whenever they please. I think it should be at the same time as the new round of moderators. By doing this there will be some time where the past staff member is able to familiarise themselves with the community. They would also be able to have a "Players x, y and z are also returning to the staff team" section added onto the 'New mods' post. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphric Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't. I feel they got their share of pomp and circumstance when they were first modded. Except that in some circumstances, a lot of the people who were around when they were first modded might not even be around anymore, so people will by and large have no idea who these people are. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denevien Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Except that in some circumstances, a lot of the people who were around when they were first modded might not even be around anymore, so people will by and large have no idea who these people are. As TheRandomnatrix stated earlier, this is the exact reason we've made returning moderators be active in the community before we get their powers back. It allows the community to get used to them being around, and shows that they are interested in being part of the community, not just to be on staff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sansapants Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't. I feel they got their share of pomp and circumstance when they were first modded. It's not about pomp and circumstance. It's simply about notification. If you feel a subreddit post is too special for returning mods, it would be nice to at least have a post in the mod chat or private mod chat on the forums. I think some of us are merely asking for some indication that a player's status has changed. As it stands now, current moderators have no idea that a player has even requested reinstatement of their status, much less had their staff powers reinstated. I was caught off-guard the other day when I saw an unfamiliar player flying on P. What I initially thought was fly-hacking instead turned out to be a newly reinstated mod who I had never seen before. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denevien Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's not about pomp and circumstance. It's simply about notification. If you feel a subreddit post is too special for returning mods, it would be nice to at least have a post in the mod chat or private mod chat on the forums. I think some of us are merely asking for some indication that a player's status has changed. As it stands now, current moderators have no idea that a player has even requested reinstatement of their status, much less had their staff powers reinstated. I was caught off-guard the other day when I saw an unfamiliar player flying on P. What I initially thought was fly-hacking instead turned out to be a newly reinstated mod who I had never seen before. That's a fair point, I hadn't thought of it that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneygale Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 If you want to avoid the ceremony, just keep a thread in mod chat called "returning mods", add a post when it happens. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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