Creative Creative Revision 26: Official Planning Thread

[Magnyus]

1. TPMode

1. TPMode

GMan, I'm pretty sure you have been around long enough to know that tp mode can be edited. Wayne mentions the common trope of new players trying to tp to each other in chat, despite all the other players telling them they can just go onto tpmode allow. If we make allow mode the default, it would prevent such confusion.

And I can confirm that there are plenty of instances where the tp request does not appear, that should be brought to a in order to figure out what happened because that had been fixed before and it was working fine for quite a while. In addition to that, can we make the green message that says someone teleported to you appear even when in tpmode allow? Assuming that is already built into the plugin, I'm not sure why it's even off to begin with.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Magnyus

[LetsBFehr]

I would like to see some spots at spawn reserved.  It's really the only "prize" we can give, and it would be an incentive to participate in all the contests we can have

[EeHee2000]

Alright, I'm just going to start typing whatever comes to mind, after having skimmed through this. 

 

Wayne, I very much agree with having /tpmode allow as default. This'd also clear away a problem that many players have been having for quite some time now, and that's the bug in which a /tp request doesn't show up in a player's chat. Players usually have the common sense to to /tell (player) tpaccept, but that isn't always the case. In all honesty, I don't think this is something we should put off until the next rev, I'd prefer having this in sooner as it's not so much an addition but a simple improvement which'll make player interaction so much easier. 

 

Compass? Pretty please, yes. I honestly can't see negatives to implementing it, other than users accessing places they shouldn't. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a way to stop users from Compass-ing to certain places, as with Enderpearls? If so, that essentially just makes Compass a more convenient way of pearling to somewhere, just without the wait time and with an added ability to pass through walls. 

 

Arrows? Again, yes please. As I've said elsewhere, a bunch of Survival-Creative users have wanted this implemented as of late, the only thing in the way is TNT activation. But surely there's a fix for that. I can think of two - disable Flame enchanting for bows, or modify our version of Bukkit to prevent TNT from being ignited by arrows (not sure how the technical stuff there works, but I believe it's possible.)

 

As for the Nether/End biomes, I guess an End biome isn't really needed, but a Nether world would be nice. Every time we have a Nether world, it's interesting and fun to explore. There's fountains of lava and small crannies that lead into giant chasms. If we kept the size of it small, say 1000x1000, the lag wouldn't be as severe. We'd have to cut back on the lava/fire heavy areas, but that wouldn't affect the terrain too much, which is what most players actually like about the Nether. 

[LetsBFehr]

I'm a strong no on the compass.  It will ruin spleef, mazes, parkour courses, and allow people to get into restricted areas.  The negatives far exceed the positives in my opinion.

[SkrapssparkS]

Strong no to compass for the reasons letsb stated, I like the idea of ender pearls though, vanilla and still useful.

[EeHee2000]

Okay, I can agree with those reasons. But, how's about Enderpearls? As Skraps said, they're vanilla. I know for a fact that it's possible to prevent people from pearling to certain places, perhaps maze-makers, parkour-makers and spleef-makers, (etc) could just /modreq No Pearl Zone ? That's with less abilities than Compass, and with added /modreq-able restrictions.
"But Eehee, people won't know that it's modreq-able!"
If it's implemented, it'll likely be announced in the new revision's subreddit/forum post. If people still don't pick up on it, we could set a [server] announcement for it.

Edited February 18, 2014 by EeHee2000

[LetsBFehr]

But is there anything that we need enderpearls for?  We already can run or fly fast enough.

[EeHee2000]

It's essentially a way to save time from flying around everywhere. When we want to explore the map and want to get somewhere quickly, we spash ourselves with Speed 2 potions and hold down 'W'. Enderpearling would be a lot more fun and far more convenient, but my main argument is that the positives of Enderpearls depend on the scenario.

Oh, you want to escape a massive building and there's a 1x1 hole in the wall? Sorry bud, you'll have to go all the way ar- oh, wait, I have Enderpearls!

Pearls are a fun tool in Creative mode, and could even help with enclosed PvP arenas. Another point I'd like to raise is that there really aren't many negatives if players can /modreq for a place they own to be off-limits to pearls.

Whether we want to dick around with eachother or build massive structures, Enderpearls are always a nice thing to have around.

Edited February 19, 2014 by EeHee2000

[Magnyus]

1. Compass

 

1. Compass

    Does the compass work in survival mode? I'd assume it doesn't.

[Magnyus]

1. Flyspeed

 

1. Flyspeed

   No, we do not fly fast enough. But I'm also not really in the mood to argue why we should get flyspeed, I still think we should add it though.

[Dumbo52]

TPControl

I'm in favor of defaulting to Allow mode. I see no downsides that can't easily be dealt with, and it'll make the teleportation system much easier to use for new players.

Compasses/Ender Pearls

I agree with LetsB on this one, for much the same reason. Ender pearls are a nicer alternative that don't have the problem of allowing players into restricted areas. Even for areas such as /warp Lab and /warp Maze, we can set the enderpearl flag in those regions to DENY. The same can't be said for compasses.

Nether

I'd be willing to try out a Nether dimension, 1000x1000 or so. I think we should use a /warp Nether and keep portals disabled, though; Nether portal networks can get very messy, particularly when it comes to land claims and grief. I'm not seeing a whole lot of support for the End, though, so we'll probably have only two dimensions.

Arrows

I'm fine with this, though we'll need to update NerdBukkit to deal with TNT.

Grass

I'd also like to see grass growth enabled again, assuming this isn't too much of a strain on the server. I've encountered very few instances where the lack of growth is actually useful, and as Wayne mentioned, the safe dirt is always available. The only thing you would no longer be able to do is keep grass directly under other solid blocks, but in my opinion, that just looks silly anyway.

Map Size

I do not approve of the 4k by 4k size, that was the size of revision 24 for the brunt of it and most of it remained empty until we expanded to 5k by 5k. We talk about getting people to build closer to each other but four thousand blocks off space is more than enough for everyone to go to their own corner and build.

What size would you like to see? While I agree that closer together builds would likely be an improvement, I'm also concerned about limiting the players in terms of where they can build. 3200x3200 or 3600x3600 sound reasonable, but I'm don't think we should go anywhere below 3000x3000, halving the map size.

Map Generation

It sounds like in general, people are okay with a WorldPainter-Vanilla combination. I don't think large biomes is a great idea for this map, though. We're going with a smaller map size, and large biomes are pretty large, so there really wouldn't be much room for diversity of terrain. Even if we use WorldPainter on a large scale, we still wouldn't be able to reproduce the type of terrain generated in a default world. Default biome sizes would give us much more interesting terrain combinations

Large Claims

This topic has come up in the past, but I don't remember a decision ever being made. If we are to deal with abandoned builds, I'd like to come up with some guidelines. Already, we don't protect empty land. This means that if someone has claimed a large area of land, we will generally only protect the part which has been built on and ask for players to modreq to expand their region later on. Other people's builds made after clearly marked borders are constructed can be moved at the request of the original build's owner. While this system kind of works in that MIA players won't be there to have those builds moved, it provides little assurance to the players building on the land that their builds won't be moved in the future. I'm thinking that if the demand is high enough, we can check if the time since the player has been online passes a threshold (say, one month) and if so, unclaim the land that was not built on. This is probably something that the admins would need to decide on a case-by-case basis.

[Magnyus]

1. TPControl

2. Compasses/Ender Pearls

3. Nether

4. Arrows

5. Grass

6. Map Size

7. Map Generation

8. Large Claims

 

1. TPControl

   Woo!

 

 

2. Compasses/Ender Pearls

   Fair enough. But if there was a way to completely deny the use of the compass in a region, I'd like that to be explored.

 

 

3. Nether

   I absolutely agree, I was waiting to see what the stance on portals would be, since people building portals all over the place can easily become a nightmare. Using a /warp function would completely clear that up. Though it would be nice to sneak in a few secret portals activated at one point for something like the scavenger hunt.

 

 

4. Arrows

   Woo!

 

 

5. Grass

   Woo!

 

 

6. Map Size

   I'd like 2500 by 2500 should be the absolute minimum, but any of the sizes you mentioned would be fine. I just feel that 4k by 4k is way to big to start the map and would be better off as an expansion. Also could the expansions come at set dates? Because relying on people to fill the map is the only reason why our revs our now averaging 6 months, which is absurd.

 

 

7. Map Generation

   I prefer large biomes because the large spaces make the terrain appear more congruent. With small biomes, it looks incredibly silly to see deserts next to ice spikes, or mesa attached to tundras. If you can find a seed and paint the map to have biomes that make sense, then by all means, use small biomes.

 

 

8. Land Claims

   Not protecting empty land? Half of this rev is empty plots! I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROTECTING THOSE REGIONS. Please come up with a system of unclaiming land from people who don't even play on the servers for more than a day.

 

   Again, I am against marking borders, because it's a waste of time. I would much rather start building right off the get-go, and have my builds evolve as I go, I cannot think up a massive region and take the time to mark it with ugly wool. BUT, it really doesn't help my builds when people decide to trap me by building a entire city two blocks away from me, leaving me with no room to expand. And the worst part of it all? I've been building in the area since it was a completely empty wasteland, but I cannot have anything around me moved because it's already been protected. (lovely)

 

   What about relocating? I literally can't build without getting rid of everything surrounding me, and I cannot fill in my area any more than I already have. Nope, I can't even move my own build anywhere else, so I'm left with an unfinished build surrounded by nothing that belongs to me. And even if I could relocate, I've been building into the terrain and moving it would make it look weird. So what is the point I'm trying to make? >:)

 

 

9. MOVING BUILDS

  MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!! I HAD TO TALK ABOUT THIS AT SOME POINT.

   But seriously folks, I really feel that this needs to be discussed. Apart from my example/rant above, there are plenty of reasons why we need to consider the concept of moving builds. Structures that don't match the theme of the area they're built in, non-pixel art "art" in Pixel Art, non-Big Town builds in Big Town, derp, etc.

[SkrapssparkS]

Large claims IMO should not be allowed without evidence of the player making use of it <- current rule, however I feel players should be able to add a border to a large area, this lets players know if they build in there there is a chance their build will be moved if the original player ends up using the land however it is also a nice alternative to just simply preventing anyone else from building there.

[Magnyus]

1. Land Claims

1. Land Claims

So you're saying if I make the world border, I can have any build moved at my discretion so long as I make use of the terrain I'm claiming? Yes, I'm being extreme, but borders are a huge waste of time, there is no way to gauge how big a build may or may not be, and whether or not you'll even continue to be interested in that plot. If I had wasted my time by adding a border to the city I was planning 1500 block west from spawn it would've been completely ridiculous, and no one would have allowed me to keep it.

Again, this is why being able to move builds is the better alternative, since I was there first, I should have the right of way to continue building in the area I claimed. But if someone decides to build a city of their own within walking distance, suddenly I lose any potential areas I could have used for my build? No, I don't approve. Atleast with a policy of having things moved, another player can build to their hearts content and they don't end up losing their work. I like being able to build what I want where I want, but if it means having to put a stupid wool border around a 1000x1000 (exaggerating) area simply to keep others from building anywhere near me, I'd much rather not build anything at all. It's too annoying of a hassle to undertake, and it kinda makes me seem like an asshole.

It was different last rev with Mira because I had more or less a vision of what I wanted it to be, and I was willing to adapt to the size of the area, but even still, I probably expanded that region at least ten times if not more. And every single time I decided to do so, it was as simple as setting a modreq for stuff surrounding me to be moved. The changes were barely even noticeable. This rev I decided to try building something that would purposely expand and adapt to the terrain, but it got to the point where any expansion would have infringed upon other creations in that area that popped up weeks after I started building there, so I had to abandon it.

[SkrapssparkS]

What I'm saying is you set a border around an area more than large enough for your build, once your build reaches areas that have been built on modreq for the other build to be moved if you don't get to that point the other build gets to stay, this saves SO much hasle for the admins

[WayneByNumbers]

I'm going to have to take some exception to what you're saying, Magnyus; it seems to be coming down to making it explicit policy to give large builds (and builders) "priority" over smaller builds.  If you plan something large, then you should claim, and probably border, what you plan on using (large borders make protection easier, especially in polygon cases, and demonstrate that someone is more likely to be committed to building if they're willing to make that much border).  I don't think it's fair for someone making a build of indeterminate size (like a city) to look at small, neighboring builds and think "I want that land, I'll get that thing moved."  To be able to "plan on planning on using" land, at the expense of other players, is a little to favoritist, in my opinion.

 

I'm not saying someone couldn't contact the owner and make a modreq about moving something, that's our current practice already, but it shouldn't be policy that large builders can mandate it.  Of course, if the owner can't be contacted (getting back to the idea of abandoned builds), then it's up to admin discretion.

 

Edit:  I do agree, however, that there should be some better way of dealing with abandoned claims.  Perhaps something like if an area is unedited or only barely so for at least 3 weeks or something, and the owner has not been on in that time, it can be unclaimed.  If they have been on more recently, then an attempt to contact them is made; no answer within a week results in unclaiming.  If they do answer, they can either agree to the unclaim, or restate their intention to build there within a week at most.

[Dumbo52]

The map reset is tentatively planned for the weekend of Saturday, March 22nd. More detailed information will be provided as we approach this date.

[Dunk514]

we need compasses that work cause mine didnt work and i dont like it

[EeHee2000]

Drunk, we've already discussed that.

The answer is no.

 

Intentional misspelling.

Edited March 12, 2014 by EeHee2000

[DrTim58]

I as a nerd personally think the nether should be allowed and not a region in the overworld. Having the actual nether would be a whole new frontier for the creative server ( i think dont quote me on that). We may have had the end but the nether is a whole new area of possibilities and room. For all of you who still find ways to access the end through working portals (yes techadmins they do exist and yes i have found one in that weird navorsing underwater reaserch lab place and ik i might be a jerk for telling them that to readers) or set a home in it before its warp was closed off would agree with me that there is much more room in the other dimensions of minecraft. ok this is just a suggestion from one nerd and will always think that you should have the nether on Rev 26 and not a region on the overworld the real thing is what i wnt.

[DrTim58]

1. You should be able to modreq your builds to be moved incase you eventually wnt to expand but some douchebag builds a town or city right next to you and it gets protected you can't expand that way and all of your plans are ruined. Then you expand the other way making your build look hideous and since claiming areas of land is banned unless u have builds there.

2. People building derp builds right next to yours. You should be able to have those removed or moved so they don't repel people that wanted to check out your build.

3.The nether and possibly the end. The nether and possibly the end should be enabled with warps to them allowing more possibilities and building room, plus the server can handle it and anyone who says not give some proof. The end i don't find to important except for building space

Stations. The nether though, it has strongholds lava lakes where u cn hide a secret base, you can build above its ceiling last time i checked, and you can make an awesome satan lair and parkour sets.

[LetsBFehr]

A nether dimension is in the works for the next map.  Get excited, we will let you know a final starting date soon.

[Difficult1]

What about making a tpreq que, when multiple players tp it blocks the original. Maybe the techs can magic up something like this:

/tpallow 1

/tpallow 2

Etc.

Also if I where to have my tp mode in deny (as I normally do), would it better if tpfriends didn't require a tpallow in deny mode as well?

[ROCKONN]

A nether dimension is in the works for the next map.  Get excited, we will let you know a final starting date soon.

As a small suggestion, it should be a customized nether, either with a more-open series of caverns, or without a roof. would make getting around easier, even in a limited area as I'm guessing it will be.

 

 

1. You should be able to modreq your builds to be moved incase you eventually wnt to expand but some douchebag builds a town or city right next to you and it gets protected you can't expand that way and all of your plans are ruined. Then you expand the other way making your build look hideous and since claiming areas of land is banned unless u have builds there.

2. People building derp builds right next to yours. You should be able to have those removed or moved so they don't repel people that wanted to check out your build.

3.The nether and possibly the end. The nether and possibly the end should be enabled with warps to them allowing more possibilities and building room, plus the server can handle it and anyone who says not give some proof. The end i don't find to important except for building space

Stations. The nether though, it has strongholds lava lakes where u cn hide a secret base, you can build above its ceiling last time i checked, and you can make an awesome satan lair and parkour sets.

 

1: Builds can be moved in the event of a land dispute, and for no other reason. If someone's building too close to you, ask them to back off. If they don't, and you were clearly there first, modreq to inform a staff member of the situation. Don't get your hopes up and think the new structure will be moved/removed, more likely than not it'll simply be agreed on that neither of you will build toward each other further.

2: Builds are not moved/removed just because one dislikes them. If they're clearly imposing on the surrounding/supporting landscape of your build, or are built smack on your build, they can be modreq'd to be moved. Otherwise (and being blunt here), live with it.

 

3: In the past, and even now for many servers, enabling alternative dimensions & subsequently generating new maps can cause serious issues. While it's possible for our servers to handle them, that doesn't mean that they wont impact the overall performance of the servers. It's a delicate balance, you need to understand that Tim.

In regard to the warps, it'd be great to have a Nether/End dimension. However, in my personal opinion they should be treated as something special, a treat, a reward. They should be used for events & the like, a change of scenery to really bring up morale.

In regards to the End specifically, we're going to have issues, I can see it already. Someone's going to get the bright idea to (on a regular basis) destroy every block they can get their hands on, subsequently disabling building except in previously claimed areas. Should the End be enabled for general use, a provision against this should be put in place. Such examples of solutions are enabling a block generation command for players within the End dimension (spawning a block under them, on a timer like the rule book's, replacing air with enderstone), or having an admin generate a random cloud of matter every/every-other day.