Survival Revival: Take it old school.

[PeteLucas]

Can we please just go back to how the server once was..

If you check the mcpublic reddit posts regarding the new direction people are really unresponsive. Veteran players all hold the same views that the open grief and lack of ruling will kill the server. And trust me, these server vets know their shit as most have been around twice as long as the current server staff. Myself included.

We aren't a citadel server. We're a survival server.

A suggestion I have posted about is to strip back the game a tad and allow it to accommodate a pick up and play approach a little better.

PvP was rife before the adventure update as anyone could quickly craft armour and weapons and run out to hunt for someone.

As soon as enchants and spells were introduced the onous was onto getting a grinder, getting god swords and armour, then getting tanked up on buffs and then and only then, going out. When the majority of your gameplay is spent idling at a grinder and trialling and erroring enchants, of course PvP and user count will die.

My suggestion is to completely remove all PvP related spells and enchants.

Swords can still have Bane of Arthropods, Looting, Unbreaking etc But Sharpness, Fire Aspect and Knock back should go.

Bows can perhaps keep Infinity, though this may even be brought into question.. The rest.. Gone.

Armour should remove Protection and leave the rest.

All other enchants related to mining will stay and still be useful when it comes to getting your resources.

Spells which buff a players strength and life regeneration or harm another should go. Keeping Invisibility and Swiftness for example can really bring some stealth style killing into play.

Of course what would be necessary alongside this is a rebalancing of the in game items stats. No longer should a stone sword be able to batter an iron clad player. Leather armour should also not be entirely useless. Gold should even be brought into the fray and made a suitable step between iron and diamond.

Working out the perfect balance of stats for this would be a toughie. But there are ample people out there who are willing and able to help. I'm sure the rebalancing has even been done before somewhere.

The random spawns and spawn in beds should be totally removed as these REALLY do not help with encouraging PvP. Safe buckets should also be reinstated. As should anti griefing and revised don't be a dick rules. And the roads. The roads MUST come back!!

To prevent spawn camping I have an idea which should help.

Create quite a large spawn, circular in shape, which has the look and feel of a village.

There could be places for meetings to be held in game. Clan halls. Rule museums. A redstone museum demonstrating redstone engineering examples and so on.

This area will be entirely no PvP. Anyone spawning inside this area is immune to attack for the duration of being inside it. Leaving and reentering the spawn however does not enable the no PvP again for you. Not until you die and spawn inside it.

Because the spawn will be quite large (and perhaps even raised on a double platform encased by a protected ring road and its main road system which MUST be returned!!) Players who have been killed can exit in any direction and away from any likely spawn campers.

A suggestion could be to even harm players who reenter the spawn area with poison, preventing them wanting to pearl into the spawn and buddy up with their victim awaiting them to drop into the PvP zone.

I believe these suggestions will allow players to join the server at any points during its revisions life, spend an hour gathering resources, then get straight into the fray with PvP and survival.

Can these suggestions please be discussed and directions altered if the response for them is positive please. So far, these suggestions on the subreddit have gone down well.

[TheRandomnatrix]

Can we please just go back to how the server once was..

If you check the mcpublic reddit posts regarding the new direction people are really unresponsive. Veteran players all hold the same views that the open grief and lack of ruling will kill the server. And trust me, these server vets know their shit as most have been around twice as long as the current server staff. Myself included.

We aren't a citadel server. We're a survival server.

The thing is, a lot of these new plugins and features were tested and are being introduced because of discussions and meetings, many of which said server vets participated in. This wasn't done on some whim by the server admins. Survival isn't going to be 100% perfect in one rev on this, but it should at least be given a chance so more accurate feedback can be taken. Also, the old server style everyone was so accustomed to was clearly not bringing in success, so why should we go back to it?

[PeteLucas]

But the decision ultimately came down to a few people who are able to put significance to their own ideas and ignore others.

I doubt anywhere in the discussion did the vast majority of players choose this new set of game modifications.

Its overly involved and detrimental to the whole point of what we're trying to achieve. A well populated, PvP, survival server. Not another citadel mod server amongst hundreds scattered around the wastes of the internet.

The recent discussions on r/mcpublic has shown that almost everyone is reacting negatively to the current and future state of the server and positive to the ideas I've put forward here.

I really feel that a referendum should be had on this. Otherwise you will lose a lot of players who probably won't return any time soon. Especially considering there is no end date set for this "experiment".

[slide]

I see a lot of people really excited about the new rev and I also definitely see a few people not excited. There is no way to ever please everyone and so there will never be a "vast majority of players" that choose exactly 1 set of plugins and config options and game rules etc.

 

The s admins didn't ignore anyones opinion here, they held meetings, read forum and subreddit posts and thought long and hard. The biggest thing I feel people were asking for was simply to try out new things. Remember, this is also a "test" rev, so if things don't work out, they will change again.

 

Just give it a try, I think right now the biggest hurdle to S coming back is simply people stuck into what THEY view the server as and being completely unwilling to change. Since everyone views the server slightly differently, this just can't work.

[totemo]

The ultimate measure of success of s.nerd.nu MUST be player numbers.  The ultimate survival of Reddit Public depends on the appreciation of the gaming public, because the server owes its continued existence to appreciative donors.

 

If S transforms into something different from what it has been in the past, that is perfectly fine, as long as people have fun, stay around and enjoy the game enough to support the server financially.

[SkrapssparkS]

You could put up two servers, one testing all the different plugins and another one the usual way, we were going to do that with creative it's a very good way to determine what the public actually wants. You just have to measure the numbers on each server to see which one is the most popular, and put up a thread at the end like you would if you only tested it on the one server asking which plugins we should keep. Just an idea but it could be a useful way to keep everyone happy.

[PeteLucas]

So what you're saying Totemo is that it needs numbers to exist just so it can continue to exist? Doesn't matter what it offers, as long as people donate to suppliment it's existence..

That is a disgusting view.

If the server was out to make money, then sure. Fill your boots. Do whatever.

But initially the server was there to perform a task. Offer an as close to vanilla survival server that offers PvP as possible.

If we can't offer that, then why continue to flog it?

What you're suggesting is doing g whatever it takes for it to survive whilst fulfilling no purpose.

If in three years everyone wants Neon pink textures with Viking weaponry and rifles where no mining or crafting just takes place. Would you again change the server so it has the numbers so it can continue to get donations so it can continue to exist?

I hate to say it, but if the server can't remain as it was supposed to and it can't be afforded to exist.. Then let it die with a little dignity man.

[BCB228]

If you look closely you can see everybody who does not agree with this does not play survival.

[PeteLucas]

I'm just more dumbfounded about the whole thing.

The server will be unrecognisable going forward. But what's worse is it won't fix the issue of no PvP.

There's no PvP because nobody wants or even has the time, bar a select few, to spend hours mining, grinding levels, hit and missing the correct enchants, etc, just to risk losing it all if you lose a match. How heartbreaking is it to know those hours of labour aren't coming back.

If you remove that necessity, you will have people taking their chances more.

Fuck. You could even have the stats of diamond armour the same as that with Protection 4 if you want the fights to last a long time.

Its ridiculous to think that the server needs members just so it can exist. In any shape or form.

No. We didn't play on this just because its a server built from a Reddit community.

We played on this server because it was a close to vanilla survival PvP!!!

Are people expecting users to stay with all these changes?!

Its a shame this bothers me so much.. I wish I could just switch off and accept these changes.

But I can't. Spent too many years on this server, enjoying its ways to see it get fucked up.

[PeteLucas]

Plus. You don't really have to look that closely ha.

[barneygale]

Survival will die completely if we continue with vanilla. It's a tiny niche that gets smaller every day.

[PeteLucas]

Yeah I get that. Most of my friends play modified single player and such.

If the server needs to stop being a vanilla survival server and starts being a citadel based revision then so be it. But I think the server should be repackaged as such as well. Revision count should start again as should the subreddit and info pages regarding it.

Perhaps we could put a revision onto event.nerd.nu which runs a temporary vanilla-esque version. That way we can see how the two servers compare. Eventually lose the least popular or responsive one.

[slide]

If you look closely you can see everybody who does not agree with this does not play survival.

Are we really starting with this again? Judging by last revs online stats, i'm more of a survival player than you or PeteLucas. Perhaps if we stopped trying to exclude people, more people would want to play.

[SkrapssparkS]

Let's not get into arguments, we should try to find solutions to problems brought up. Survival will be having these changes it's going for a test if it's not a success then we will not continue with the plugins, if it is a success then we will, but why can't we have a test server for it? if it's just temporary why don't we have two survival servers up with the different styles? It would make a good comparison between the two directions survival could go in and it would keep most players happy both those that want survival to stay more vanilla and those that want survival to try these new plugins. Is there a big problem with putting up another server? If so that's fair enough but if we can do it then it's worth giving it a shot.

[PeteLucas]

Could use event.nerd.nu for this experiment perhaps.

As for my usage, I avoided the last rev cos the random spawn meant I didn't see anyone to PvP. And previous revs I've been unable to attend due to work and family commitments.

Its a shame there weren't stats available from way back when ha

[BCB228]

Could use event.nerd.nu for this experiment perhaps.

As for my usage, I avoided the last rev cos the random spawn meant I didn't see anyone to PvP. And previous revs I've been unable to attend due to work and family commitments.

Its a shame there weren't stats available from way back when ha

You didn't miss much... In the week or so i played before getting banned I was only in 1 armor fight, an arena match.

 

I personally think the changes made to S will just discourage PVP even more for the few players that stick around and build bases. In old revs everybody would get a plot right next to spawn and there would be tons of PVP since everybody lived on the roads, but now with random spawning and citadel everybody will be spread far across the map in hidden under ground bases.

Edited July 24, 2014 by BCB228

[PeteLucas]

Yup..

[jllmprrt]

So what you're saying Totemo is that it needs numbers to exist just so it can continue to exist? Doesn't matter what it offers, as long as people donate to suppliment it's existence..

That is a disgusting view.

If the server was out to make money, then sure. Fill your boots. Do whatever.

How long have you been around again? This server lives off of generous donations, and the admins aren't trying to get anyone's money. That's one of our core ideas here, that it's a free and fun experience for everyone.

Also, yes, we need numbers to thrive also. I'd rather not use the term exist because it's a bit of a strong word there.

And yes, it matters what the servers offer. Had you not made your forum account this week, you may know that we have had meetings and mumble discussions to make improvements on survival.

While I personally do not see all of these changes as for the better, the admins really are trying here and have done a great job putting the word out there, what with that new fangled survival log.

[SpiderMan]

The thing is, a lot of these new plugins and features were tested and are being introduced because of discussions and meetings, many of which said server vets participated in.

 

So you're saying said server vets were for it before they were against it or that they were in the same mumble channel while these changes were being discussed?

 

 

The ultimate measure of success of s.nerd.nu MUST be player numbers.  The ultimate survival of Reddit Public depends on the appreciation of the gaming public, because the server owes its continued existence to appreciative donors.

 

If S transforms into something different from what it has been in the past, that is perfectly fine, as long as people have fun, stay around and enjoy the game enough to support the server financially.

 

I totally agree, the servers do need more players and a variation of the current game mode to bring players in.  I think we can all agree the reason that vanilla is boring is because it requires a ton of continuous grinding to be end up losing fights quickly or have pyrrhic victories against other people who do the same until they are bored and leave. That explains the immense success of mcmmo+factions plugin based servers and their communities. On those servers, one joins with a very simple survival kit, and players are able to find suitable building areas and expand their factions by forging alliances and building with old friends and new.

 

Are we really starting with this again? Judging by last revs online stats, I'm more of a survival player than you or PeteLucas. Perhaps if we stopped trying to exclude people, more people would want to play.

 

I agree, we shouldn't exclude casual players like PeteLucas from the type of players that should play on survival. If things were changed to allow casual players like HCF, more people would want to play.

 

 

Survival will die completely if we continue with vanilla. It's a tiny niche that gets smaller every day.

 

But, the thing is, up until the upcoming map revision, vanilla features like liquid flow were completely disabled. It was a niche made even smaller by the reduction of important vanilla features.

 

https://nerd.nu/forums/index.php?/topic/1503-the-future-of-safebuckets-on-s/#entry10010

 

-gsand

;D

Edited July 25, 2014 by gsand

[BCB228]

 many of which said server vets participated in.

Such as? I cant think of any "survival veterans" who would think any of the changes make any logical sense at all. All of the do nothing but discourage player interaction. Citadel? Hidden underground bases. No end chest? Less traveling. Prison pearl? Not useful at all for a PVP server. Random spawns? because fuck logical center of the map spawn points.

 

I feel like if these changes stay S will turn into PVE

[PeteLucas]

I did actually have an account from waaaay back. For one reason or another I couldn't for the life of me remember the log on credentials. Perhaps later I'll try to log on with it.

@BCB228 IMO it would be easier to take the PvE server and just add PvP. Rather than bastardise the S server.

@jmlmprrt I think you missed my point. Totemo said that we need numbers so we can get donations from them so it can be put forward to pay towards the costs of the server itself. My point is as so, why change the server functionality and purpose just to get numbers so it can receive donations so it can survive if it isn't even doing the things it set out to do. Its existing for the sake of it.

And I agree. It does matter what the server offers. In fact, for 24 revisions the server managed to offer quite a similar product. Rev 25 deviated a tad, but still. It was a predominantly PvP lead survival server.

The upcoming rev 26 is nothing alike the previous incarnations. So people logging on expected anything similar will be very disappointed and in my mind its an insult to even have it in the revision counts!

Edit: I've tried finding my old account but it seems to just be gone. I had used it to contest a ban about 3 years ago. So it is pretty old. However. I did not often check this forum.

I read the mcpublic Reddit everyday however and did not see the post relating to the server discussions. If I had perhaps I would have taken part and had my ideas ignored there also. Ha. Nah just kidding. I'm sure my points would have been listened too and thoughtfully considered..

Edited July 25, 2014 by PeteLucas

[SpiderMan]

I read the mcpublic Reddit everyday however and did not see the post relating to the server discussions. If I had perhaps I would have taken part and had my ideas ignored there also. Ha. Nah just kidding. I'm sure my points would have been listened too and thoughtfully considered..

 

 

-gsand

;D

Edited July 25, 2014 by gsand

[PeteLucas]

Haha! Brilliant.

I've just been looking over past discussion threads and its pretty call to have seen That one put forward a few ideas of mine in the past taken from the subreddit. They were all ignored. But still. Proof that I do take part and offer ideas. Ha, she said my three parallel roads on each axis idea (creating alleys and preventing huge builds close to spawn) was a unique idea. Would still like to see that someday. Shit. I'd like to see an actual spawn again..

Anyway. I can't even find posts made by my old account. So I guess it got deleted somehow during the archiving of posts? Anyway. Who cares.

I've played on this server long enough to see how differently managed the server is. It seems the current peeps in charge want the server to be hands off. No modreqs. No briefing to fix. No spawn or arena to create.

Meh.

I'm over all of this now. Come 10pm Saturday night when the server restarts we can play and see how it is.

Perhaps it will be fun. Perhaps it will be populated with people abusive g the frailties of the proposed plans. Who knows.

Hopefully though of it DOES fail, the sadmins won't cling to it and allow it to continue for too long..

[BeastBruiser]

The decision to try this play style has nothing to do with the work load of moderating. Literally nothing. And as far as lack of effort to create the map for this rev, I have personally spent well over 45 hours working on it and I know Redwall and Mrloud have also spent many hours as well, not counting the time we have spent planning and discussing different ideas

 

This coming revision is a starting point for trying out different aspects and seeing how each of them affect game play. Honestly if all parts of it work perfectly I would be surprised. But my hope is that even through some failures we can work together to see what works and what doesn't and use that as a point to continue from.

I have heard rumors of players planning to purposefully try to break the coming rev, to exploit any loophole as much as possible, and honestly, it makes me sad to see players planning on trying to destroy Survival, a server that I love and care about. That attitude will do nothing to help the server long term or short.

All I ask is that players approach the rev with an open mind and try to see what works and what doesn't to give us a solid platform to continue with

[PeteLucas]

None of us are planning on destroying the survival server. Its already gonna be destroyed enough with these upcoming changes. It's no longer the survival we know and love. It's a civicraft clone. So of anything was attacked during this revision its not us attacking our beloved survival. It's attacking the changes made.

Furthermore. If people did decide to start banging down diamond protected obsidian right in someone doorway. Then whack lava all over it. Well. Its part of the game. They can check their snitch and come try and get vengeance. Though I doubt hours of work being fucked up over a person being killed once or twice is nothing.

Look at all the unrest around the world today because people are being told what's right and what's wrong for them. Governments are being overthrown. And though its very VERY far removed. If we don't like the server we will show you how much by fucking shit up and protesting for what we want. Its a very sad and petty thing but there's people who have played and loved this server much longer and much more than you who never had the chance themselves to improve it who are having their beloved S.nerd.nu server changed and bastardised.

If the success of this is measured on user counts, regardless of whether you out most of the community who were here before it, then its a sad day.