On S and Moving Forward

[TheAcademician]

Greetings everyone, your new S-Admin Aca here.

I know you've all been wanting to hear more from us on the admin team regarding the future of S and what our plans are to address the obvious problems. I don't have answers for everything, but I will do my best to address some things.

The first thing I will address is the negative reaction from people regarding myself being chosen as the new admin for S given that I haven't played there in a while and many people don't know who I am. Many have asked why I'm not now actively playing on S; to which the simple answer is that I'm still building a portal city on P, mostly alone, and that is an obligation I cannot simply drop. That said, I think I have a fair handle on how S is doing. I played S for several revisions exclusively, and besides the Civ revision the gameplay is basically the same as it was back then. I've worked with the S admins on a few projects while as tech, the biggest of which was to develop CobraCorral. As a player I always believed that S could use some more community in-between all the killing of everyone. That's why I worked with uni0 on building our SHIELD clan base in Rev15 which had public arenas right next to one of the spawn portals. I also helped design and build Egreth with Mumberthrax in Rev20 and Sanctuary with uni0 in 21, two very successful big cities despite the near-constant attacks levied against us. For those and several other reasons I think I'm qualified to join the admin team, and I'm glad that the other admins felt that I was a good candidate. I know there is a great deal of frustration among S players over this, and I understand this will not alleviate all the points and questions raised by the community, but I hope in time you will find me to be a suitable choice.

Mumber, redwall, and Beast have been actively collecting suggestions over the past few months for how to rework the gameplay of S to be more, quite frankly, fun. There's only so much that Minecraft vanilla PVP can offer and it seems like S tapped this out a long time ago. Over the last week or so I've looked back through all the S posts tagged on the forums for suggestions, and I can say with confidence that 90% of them have been tried in revisions to near 0 effect on popularity of the server. The recent suggestions that the admin team have received range from a bit out there (admittedly, some of mine are too :D) to minor changes that could draw more people in. I know many of you like the vanilla-esque style of gameplay that S currently has, which was supported by the fact that the S26 (Civ) feedback post here was entirely a call for the admins to return to that gameplay. However, it's become clear that not only are a rather vocal minority of S players tired of this type of gameplay, the community as a whole doesn't seem to be consistently supporting it either given the player numbers we have been seeing over the past few months.

The future of S however is currently more lava than it is obsidian. I am spending much of my out-of-game time working with the other admins at the moment to compile the ideas we have received to see if we can come up with a plan for how future S revisions will unfold. Due to the amount of suggestions and the fact that many of these require technical considerations are the main reason behind the lack of communication from the S admin team to this point. We honestly don't know at this time what S28 may look like, and there are no specific details to share on our considerations at this time. Know that in all likelihood S28 and beyond may be a very different style of gameplay than you're used to on S. However, the focus on S will always be PVP, and, more importantly, to try and make that PVP worth engaging in and sticking around for. This is not an easy task, and it takes time.

Lately a great deal of posts and discussion has come up about how the S community can better help form these next revisions. I've seen calls for public meetings and logged IRC development chats among others. The Nerd admin teams as a whole have always been very open to community ideas and suggestions, and S is no different. If players or groups of players want to provide us with additional suggestions we're all for it and happy to receive them. That being said, we have no plans at this time to publish any public information on our current revision plans or participate in public meetings to discuss how the new S revision should be built. Ultimately the S admin team requires the latitude to craft the gameplay of S with community suggestions, but not community interference. When we have a better idea of what our plans our, and have had the time to internally review it with the rest of Nerd staff, a public post will follow for everyone to discuss what they feel about it.

 

Your best places to provide suggestions to us is our uservoice located here.

.
I hope this clears the air on some subjects,

Thanks for reading. Play more blocks!

-Aca

[TornadoHorse]

We honestly don't know at this time what S28 may look like, and there are no specific details to share on our considerations at this time. Know that in all likelihood S28 and beyond may be a very different style of gameplay than you're used to on S. However, the focus on S will always be PVP, and, more importantly, to try and make that PVP worth engaging in and sticking around for.

 

I have constantly been asking for updates and trying to help survival move forward along with many other players. Every time we've been informed that the Sadmins are working very hard on things that they cannot yet reveal, more behind the scenes work for R28, and after many months of waiting, this is it? Nothing? Not meaning to sound hostile, but what have you actually been doing all this time?

[Guest Former Staff]

Hello TheAcademician, since the annoucement of you accepting this new position I have watched the discussions unfolding. One question that I have yet to see answered by the original announcement and since their subsequent topics is how did you come to the decision of switching from a Technical Admin to a Survival Admin? From memory, I don't know of anyone else who has made a similar switch.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Barlimore

[TheAcademician]

Hello TheAcademician, since the annoucement of you accepting this new position I have watched the discussions unfolding. One question that I have yet to see answered by the original announcement and since their subsequent topics is how did you come to the decision of switching from a Technical Admin to a Survival Admin? From memory, I don't know of anyone else who has made a similar switch.

 

Being a Tech Admin has it's perks, and it was certainly more quiet for me that it has been during the short amount of time I've been an S Admin. As a bit cheesy as it is, I think the big reason I made the switch when Mumber asked me about the position was the fact that I had always thought S could be way better than it was. I didn't build two gigantic cities on S, putting in an astonishing amount of playtime and effort, because I hated the idea of MC PvP; I built them because I wanted to try and foster a more friendly atmosphere, a community. I made quite a few friends doing that, regardless of how much that effort wore me down in having to deal with certain people which was the one, but not the only, reason I left S. Having been friends with Mumber I had always shared with him some of my ideas about how to make PVP fun using philosophies lifted from other games, and conversely he had shared with my some of the struggles he was going through in administrating S. Lately I was even brought in to comment on some of the suggestions that I mentioned in the main post of the thread, and I was excited to assist with that even as a techadmin from the sides. I'm happy I get to help shape it more as an S admin now, but it will just take time to get there.

 

In the end, I decided that, while the Tech position was probably a lot easier, even attempting to help out in administrating S was worth the effort to try and deal with it. I wished the response could have been better, and there probably was a time when it would have been, but I'm confident that given their choices of candidate, the other sadmins chose who they felt would help them the best right now. I may not be passionate about S as it currently is, but I am passionate about making it better, and I think that counts.

[TheAcademician]

I have constantly been asking for updates and trying to help survival move forward along with many other players. Every time we've been informed that the Sadmins are working very hard on things that they cannot yet reveal, more behind the scenes work for R28, and after many months of waiting, this is it? Nothing? Not meaning to sound hostile, but what have you actually been doing all this time?

 

I can't speak to what occurred during the time I was as a techadmin, so if the other's want to specifically respond to this point they can. I've only been an S admin for a week.  All I can tell you is that as soon as we have something worth sharing, it will be shared. The current state of any future revision plans is a scrumptious but very ingredient-heavy idea salad that needs to be thinned out to what is actually core to the ideals we want to have for the server.

[Guest Former Staff]

Thank you for responding so swiftly. For some people, they decide to take the easy path in life, or at work and fair enough but I do like to see people who try, who punch above their weight and succeed. I can imagine that from the perspective of the other survival server admins, choosing yourself with little / no log in time was controversial at best however knowing your drive goes a long way.
 

 

I may not be passionate about S as it currently is, but I am passionate about making it better, and I think that counts.

 

While I can't speak for people who play survival, this is the concerted effort I see from each post that I read that has another suggestion or another peace of constructive feedback, at least from my perspective.

 

Ultimately, these are all just words. We're all posting in a sense of irrelevance as even with a perfectly constructed post it won't ease some concerns. Understandably people do want to continue discussing how admins are chosen further (which I believe is being discussed here) but ultimately as a person people seem to like you and I hope that you're given a chance to prove yourself. Actions will certainly do that, creating open discussions with the community such as this and whatever may follow. Though it does seem that Tornadohorse has more insight into a specific avenue to progress towards.

 

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When we have a better idea of what our plans our, and have had the time to internally review it with the rest of Nerd staff, a public post will follow for everyone to discuss what they feel about it.

 

In regards to this, would it be an option to consider having this particular discussion met in a public debate alongside Survival and Tech Admins? I am echoing other people's suggestions which I have seen for a meeting but in terms of deciding what shape Survival 28 will be in and ensuring that it will be an engaging PvP play-style. Possibly having this determined would allow for progress to begin faster than potential weeks of internal discussions on an idea which may not line up to what people want to play.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Barlimore

[TheAcademician]

In regards to this, would it be an option to consider having this particular discussion met in a public debate alongside Survival and Tech Admins? I am echoing other people's suggestions which I have seen for a meeting but in terms of deciding what shape Survival 28 will be in and ensuring that it will be an engaging PvP play-style. Possibly having this determined would allow for progress to begin faster than potential weeks of internal discussions on an idea which may not line up to what people want to play.

 

To expand a bit on what I stated in the main post. We talked about development meetings quite a bit as a group, and decided that, especially in light of how all previous S meetings have gone combined with the high tensions surrounding S, that a meeting of that scale would be utter chaos. We absolutely do want feedback and suggestions, however, we all feel that asking people to write down their thoughts will be a lot more productive and worth everyone's time. The choices we're going to make gameplay-wise will more than likely not be popular with a lot of people. I don't 100% know how the others feel, but I am completely OK with this. The server needs something new, and trying to make it work with everyone who currently plays is an untenable situation. I understand that a lot of people, especially among our S moderating staff, have a lot of passion about S and what it would take to make it fun again. I respect that, but I think in the end the best they can do is submit suggestions and let us try and make something happen with them.

[roastnewt]

 

That being said, we have no plans at this time to publish any public information on our current revision plans or participate in public meetings to discuss how the new S revision should be built.

 

This is good to know.  I guess we should just stop wasting our time then.

[Mrloud15]

This is good to know.  I guess we should just stop wasting our time then.

We talked about development meetings quite a bit as a group, and decided that, especially in light of how all previous S meetings have gone combined with the high tensions surrounding S, that a meeting of that scale would be utter chaos. We absolutely do want feedback and suggestions, however, we all feel that asking people to write down their thoughts will be a lot more productive and worth everyone's time. 

[Four_Down]

To expand a bit on what I stated in the main post. We talked about development meetings quite a bit as a group, and decided that, especially in light of how all previous S meetings have gone combined with the high tensions surrounding S, that a meeting of that scale would be utter chaos.

The meetings are chaos because no one takes the lead and controls them and keeps them to the agenda.

 

You guys should refer back to the Survival Meetings myself and TornadoHorse ran.

 

 

we all feel that asking people to write down their thoughts will be a lot more productive and worth everyone's time.

Have someone take notes from the meeting...?

[roastnewt]

 

This is good to know.  I guess we should just stop wasting our time then.

We talked about development meetings quite a bit as a group, and decided that, especially in light of how all previous S meetings have gone combined with the high tensions surrounding S, that a meeting of that scale would be utter chaos. We absolutely do want feedback and suggestions, however, we all feel that asking people to write down their thoughts will be a lot more productive and worth everyone's time. 

 

 

Asking people to write down their thoughts is better if you want to just tally up opinions and decide what you want on your own.  This is essentially how the last mumble meeting ran, the admins did not respond at all to any suggestions, and just let everyone speak AT them for a couple hours.  If you actually had a back and forth DISCUSSION, where you participated and weighed the pros and cons of different ideas, you might find mumble meetings more useful.

 

EDIT: I listened in on the creative meeting, and it was a prime example of a back-and-forth, productive discussion.  The s-admins should ask jchance for tips.

Edited December 22, 2014 by roastnewt

[Denevien]

Asking people to write down their thoughts is better if you want to just tally up opinions and decide what you want on your own.  This is essentially how the last mumble meeting ran, the admins did not respond at all to any suggestions, and just let everyone speak AT them for a couple hours.  If you actually had a back and forth DISCUSSION, where you participated and weighed the pros and cons of different ideas, you might find mumble meetings more useful.

 

EDIT: I listened in on the creative meeting, and it was a prime example of a back-and-forth, productive discussion.  The s-admins should ask jchance for tips.

 

 

Having ran multiple mumble meetings for P, I can tell you what you're asking for isn't truly the best way to do it. Not everyone will be pleased with a decision. When something gets asked, it needs to be discussed by the admins, who then come to a decision and present that decision. I know for a fact, there were many times that the PAdmins didn't agree on something. We basically voted, and went with the majority. Now, this isn't really something that should take place live in a mumble meeting, because the ones who are for the losing side will feel they are being oppressed or have bias against them. If people do what is being suggested here, submit things written down, they can be responded to once it is discussed among the SAdmins. Whether they actually do it or not is up to them, but that is currently how they are requesting it be done. So, my advice: they are saying that is how to get answers, at least try it before you complain about it.

[Aeoxic]

That being said, we have no plans at this time to publish any public information on our current revision plans or participate in public meetings to discuss how the new S revision should be built. Ultimately the S admin team requires the latitude to craft the gameplay of S with community suggestions, but not community interference. When we have a better idea of what our plans our, and have had the time to internally review it with the rest of Nerd staff, a public post will follow for everyone to discuss what they feel about it.

 

I'll be brutally honest, here. This has probably broken the record for the fastest cautious optimism to semi pessimism about a staff addition turned into unfiltered disappointment for players. Initially there was cautious optimism and the posts were existing problems and guarding against survival spiralling even further than it already has, but now we know. Not only, as TornadoHorse pointed out, has there been minimal work done on the ideas despite hyping them up a lot, there's no intention to get preliminary feedback. You're not Valve. You're not developing VAC. People want to have a hand in shaping it because they're the people who the server is for - the players.

 

Read this thread, then you should probably make some plans to have some chats. You're doing the opposite of what everybody is suggesting. The point of sharing it with the people who will be playing on it is to get their feedback before you start basing other ideas of those ideas. The more time you invest in an idea that may potentially have zero turnout (which has happened before), the more difficult it becomes to change your plans.

 

If you just want a server for you, let us know and we'll most probably go somewhere else. We're not expecting a democracy, we're expecting you to just listen to the concerns, take them on board, and most importantly act on them and tell us how you're going to act on them. Currently it feels like anything that is said goes straight into a memory hole.

[roastnewt]

It's not that you have to please everyone. Everyone can agree that what the admins are currently doing with S isn't working, so people want to have a discussion with them, to see if we can come to a solution. Saying "no discussion, we'll do straw polls instead, then come to our own decisions privately," just seems to be doing the same old thing and hoping for a different outcome.

[Denevien]

No one said "No discussion". To me, the uservoice page seems to be set up for comments and discussion. It gets all issues clearly marked and grouped together. Players can vote for the ones they feel are the most important to them, and those can be the ones tackled first. As much as I prefer the forums over the subreddit, they are not the absolute best place to handle topics like these. Multiple threads get created for the same topic, all thoughts and suggestions are everywhere. The uservoice makes it easier to see what has already been brought up, and you can add your thoughts and suggestions to relevant topics. That was, SAdmins do not need to dig through 10 threads to find all relevant suggestions for 1 topic. All this to me...

 

just seems to be doing the same old thing and hoping for a different outcome.

[roastnewt]

Back and forth disussion, meaning admins respond to ideas, and are involved with the community in figuring out what works and what doesn't. The uservoice page has not encouraged that sort of discussion, has there been any response to, or discussion with the community about the ideas on that page?

[Denevien]

Not yet, but you have not given her a chance yet, she just got here and is saying that is what she is going to use to handle issues. If that is where they want these discussions now, if you don't try it, you can't complain about not being heard. I understand they've had issues with it in the past, but she seems to be willing to make the changes. It really only takes one to get it moving. There were many times I had to force other PAdmins and HAdmins to get things done, but they got done. As I said earlier:

 

Whether they actually do it or not is up to them, but that is currently how they are requesting it be done. So, my advice: they are saying that is how to get answers, at least try it before you complain about it.

[djt832]

The first thing I will address is the negative reaction from people regarding myself being chosen as the new admin for S given that I haven't played there in a while and many people don't know who I am. Many have asked why I'm not now actively playing on S; to which the simple answer is that I'm still building a portal city on P, mostly alone, and that is an obligation I cannot simply drop. 

 

What I am getting from this is that you are currently too busy with P to dedicate time to S. Or did I just simplify this statement too much?

[TheAcademician]

What I am getting from this is that you are currently too busy with P to dedicate time to S. Or did I just simplify this statement too much?

 

I'm simply trying to address the concern that some feel that to contribute to S I have to be an active player on it with (varying) hours of time in per day or week or other metric that has been chosen. Do my responsibilities to my build on P outweigh spending time designing/building stuff for/on S? Yes. Do they outweigh the time spent working on new revision plans and other S admin concerns? No. The effort I'm putting into discussing stuff with the other S admins and working on our new revision plan has very little to do with the time I spend building stuff in-game, especially when I started the city project months ago.

[EeHee2000]

I'm simply trying to address the concern that some feel that to contribute to S I have to be an active player on it with (varying) hours of time in per day or week or other metric that has been chosen. Do my responsibilities to my build on P outweigh spending time designing/building stuff for/on S? Yes. Do they outweigh the time spent working on new revision plans and other S admin concerns? No. The effort I'm putting into discussing stuff with the other S admins and working on our new revision plan has very little to do with the time I spend building stuff in-game, especially when I started the city project months ago.

So does this mean that Survival is currently your 1st priority, or that your PvE town comes first? If the latter, I guarantee you that any of the other possible candiates for SAdmin would be able to commit far more time and effort to Survival purely because it's their first priority. Unless you're some superbeing able to somehow put in the standard level of effort/time into Survival whilst the PvE town remains your top priority, I very strongly doubt that you'll be able to compare to what the other possible candidates would've been able to accomplish. 

[djt832]

I'm simply trying to address the concern that some feel that to contribute to S I have to be an active player on it with (varying) hours of time in per day or week or other metric that has been chosen. Do my responsibilities to my build on P outweigh spending time designing/building stuff for/on S? Yes. Do they outweigh the time spent working on new revision plans and other S admin concerns? No. The effort I'm putting into discussing stuff with the other S admins and working on our new revision plan has very little to do with the time I spend building stuff in-game, especially when I started the city project months ago.

Okay cool, thanks for the response. I just have one follow up question for you, and I will leave you be :P

 

You say that you have a pretty good handle on the Survival community. If so, you must have known that the predominately Survival users were extremely vocal in wanting an admin that was active in game. Was this something you considered before you accepted this position? Is it something that is a priority for you now as an admin? I can understand prior commitments, I'm looking towards the future here.

[dizney07]

So does this mean that Survival is currently your 1st priority, or that your PvE town comes first? If the latter, I guarantee you that any of the other possible candiates for SAdmin would be able to commit far more time and effort to Survival purely because it's their first priority. Unless you're some superbeing able to somehow put in the standard level of effort/time into Survival whilst the PvE town remains your top priority, I very strongly doubt that you'll be able to compare to what the other possible candidates would've been able to accomplish. 

 

Did you not read her post? She said her first priority is sadmin responsibilities, then the P city, THEN being a player on S. That seems pretty fair, since she did commit to the city in the past. 

[SpiderMan]

Greetings everyone, your new S-Admin Aca here.

I know you've all been wanting to hear more from us on the admin team regarding the future of S and what our plans are to address the obvious problems. I don't have answers for everything, but I will do my best to address some things.

 

:D That's fine, it's good that you are communicating with the community.

 

Mumber, redwall, and Beast have been actively collecting suggestions over the past few months for how to rework the gameplay of S to be more, quite frankly, fun. There's only so much that Minecraft vanilla PVP can offer and it seems like S tapped this out a long time ago.

 

lol yeah, a really long time ago! :D

 

Over the last week or so I've looked back through all the S posts tagged on the forums for suggestions, and I can say with confidence that 90% of them have been tried in revisions to near 0 effect on popularity of the server.

 

:/

 

I think that's why there has to be a mumble meeting like the p and c servers, that way a coherent plan of action can be done in a way where everyone looks and the pros and cons.

 

I know many of you like the vanilla-esque style of gameplay that S currently has, which was supported by the fact that the S26 (Civ) feedback post here was entirely a call for the admins to return to that gameplay.

 

I think that post was flawed, there was a large discussion about it and everyone wanted parts of the old gameplay but not the whole thing and in the end, the features most wanted were the features that everyone recognized even though everyone picked different ones. It wasn't unanimous.

 

However, it's become clear that not only are a rather vocal minority of S players tired of this type of gameplay, the community as a whole doesn't seem to be consistently supporting it either given the player numbers we have been seeing over the past few months.

 

It's no longer a minority when the majority agree and the extremely low return rates prove it.

 

Due to the amount of suggestions and the fact that many of these require technical considerations are the main reason behind the lack of communication from the S admin team to this point.

 

There's no communication because there are too many community suggestions?

 

We honestly don't know at this time what S28 may look like, and there are no specific details to share on our considerations at this time. Know that in all likelihood S28 and beyond may be a very different style of gameplay than you're used to on S.

 

If you guys are taking community suggestions, shouldn't this not be happening at all?

 

However, the focus on S will always be PVP, and, more importantly, to try and make that PVP worth engaging in and sticking around for. This is not an easy task, and it takes time.

 

The best place to find out about PVP mechanics stuff is asking people who actually do enjoy the competitive aspect of PVP.

 

Lately a great deal of posts and discussion has come up about how the S community can better help form these next revisions. I've seen calls for public meetings and logged IRC development chats among others. The Nerd admin teams as a whole have always been very open to community ideas and suggestions, and S is no different. If players or groups of players want to provide us with additional suggestions we're all for it and happy to receive them. That being said, we have no plans at this time to publish any public information on our current revision plans or participate in public meetings to discuss how the new S revision should be built.

 

:(

 

Ultimately the S admin team requires the latitude to craft the gameplay of S with community suggestions, but not community interference.

 

What kind of interference would the community provide. When the survival and pve servers were first split, both had admin teams that were constantly looking for community input and had the player numbers to show it.

 

When we have a better idea of what our plans our, and have had the time to internally review it with the rest of Nerd staff, a public post will follow for everyone to discuss what they feel about it.

 

But at that point, the idea what the revision will be like won't be as malleable as during the initial planning stages.

:(

 

 

-gsand

[TheAcademician]

Okay cool, thanks for the response. I just have one follow up question for you, and I will leave you be :P

 

You say that you have a pretty good handle on the Survival community. If so, you must have known that the predominately Survival users were extremely vocal in wanting an admin that was active in game. Was this something you considered before you accepted this position? Is it something that is a priority for you now as an admin? I can understand prior commitments, I'm looking towards the future here.

 

I can't fault people for wanting an active in-game admin as certainly not everyone who plays on S is necessarily active here, the subreddit, or elsewhere in the community outside the game. I didn't really give too much thought to it when I accepted the position, my priority was to help the team do something great with some of the ideas I had seen and discussed with the other admins, mainly Mumber. I'd say my S ingame activity isn't a huge priority, as my ingame activities are focused elsewhere when I play MC. I would rather not just sit semi-afk at spawn while doing other things just to rack up hours on the usage scale. I think that's unhelpful and dishonest about my intentions. As to the future, I have every intention of playing on S if we get this new revision off the ground, which I certainly have high hopes for. I suspect we'll suffer some stumbles and need to tweak stuff as we go, but I'll be there to experience it alongside the other players.

[SpiderMan]

In the last nerd.nu general mumble meeting, it was promised that there was going to be a secondary mumble meeting for each of the servers. The creative server has had its meeting and the Pve server had one a week or so ago. Is there an ETA for the survival server general mumble meeting?

 

Also, was my last post hidden?

 

-gsand