Creative and its players

[Difficult1]

I remember the old days of C.nerd.nu...every day brought new players, new builds, and new conversation. That was a long time ago...These last few revs have only had 15 people at the most in the days after the rev begins. I wish to get it back into its glory days of 80+ people who would actually stick around for most of the rev, and I think most people on C would like that too. I'm sick of people coming on for 3 days then leaving. I want to create a player base, have new people, and fresh faces every day just like the old days when I first joined. So ladies and gentleman, how are we going to go about this? Discuss....

Edited December 28, 2013 by Difficult1

[Magnyus]

Diff, man are you late to the party...

[tobylane]

The people who want to play creative are falling into more opposite groups than before - children and roleplayers, and terrain/worldeditors. We barely serve either, and I wouldn't want to see compromises in either or both directions.

 

Creative has a lot less cost put into it by each player, as it's easy to move. If I used world downloader I could tp to each of my builds. It would take two minutes and I wouldn't need to ever come back (not happening). However on P and S it's the other people that add much of the value. Advertising will work for all server, just not as long for C.

[XkinOEC]

Then come on c, make a community build that everyone will enjoy and advertise the crap out of it, make it imaginative, make it impressive, make it intricate, then be kind and curdious to everyone who comes to help, do not force anyone to help either. The key to building a community, is making a community of anyone and everyone, making them feel welcome regardless their level. Saying "IMMA BUILD A ROAD, anyone wanna help?" and not expecting an immediate response. This sort of method will rebuild our creative community from the ground up. And perhaps convince the staff to get creative out of the dark ages... Maintaining vanilla my ass... What the heck is the clan system and modified enchanting on the survival mode servers? I'm not saying give us worldedit, but for fucks sake, give us something beyond vanilla and stop taking away full block permissions. I'm tired of treating nerd so lightly on why It falls behind when the answes are really quite obvious.

That is all.

[EeHee2000]

Yeah, I'm all for this but honestly, no fucks will be given about this until a later date when it's referenced, or if we're lucky an Admin will see this and take action. 

 

EDIT: Fucks are being given, thanks guys. <3

Edited December 29, 2013 by EeHee2000

[buzzinbee]

We have been taking steps to making creative more interesting. Hence the new pvp arenas creative gets old with  just building we want competitions and a sense of community with weekly events occurring. I have been thinking about making the ideas of cities more interesting and adding features such as spleef tournaments between groups of players or cities. The old days we had roads due to no flight, this connected everyone's builds together and made it easier to be involved with the community now we fly our own separate ways, build our own things, get bored, move on. It's getting tricky to find things to keep players interested. World edit is too risky to allow, plus that would get builds completed faster making it even less exciting to complete a build. We have clanchat for players wanting to roleplay. We do listen when you suggest things, please keep bringing ideas to us because we are just as aware of the lack of players as you guys and we do want to make creative more interesting.

[TornadoHorse]

... children and roleplayers, and terrain/worldeditors. We barely serve either, and I wouldn't want to see compromises in either or both directions.

Exactly right. and if you want more players then you're gonna have to compromise. The first thing I'd consider if I were a cadmin is allowing roleplaying. A lot of creative players want to do it, and that's why they're being driven away. You could set limits on it to avoid that "tp if you want a girlfriend" stuff and if you don't like what's going on in chat that's why we have the /ignore command.

 

I'm not sure how the C map is currently set up, but you should also consider using plots. Maybe couple of hundred around spawn? One of the things that i've noticed from playing on C servers is that quite a few people want to go there to create test builds. If you don't know the map then you won't want to fly around for a while looking for a good plot, you'll want to get straight into building.

 

The final thing I'd consider is having certain boosts or perks; not for donating but for maybe playing for a certain amount of hours.Play for a few hours in 1 day? You get a coloured name or world edit for a short amount of time. These would give players an incentive to play and hopefully stay around for longer.

[buzzinbee]

I'm not going to allow world edit it's far too risky we don't even allow mods to have world edit, I'm also not too keen on coloured name tags it's one thing I've never like about other servers, however having perks could be good for instance having a leader board like most blocks placed overall or most dug ect, we do allow roleplaying on creative however you have to do it in a clanchat so the whole server doesn't see it.

[TornadoHorse]

I'm not going to allow world edit it's far too risky we don't even allow mods to have world edit, I'm also not too keen on coloured name tags it's one thing I've never like about other servers, however having perks could be good for instance having a leader board like most blocks placed overall or most dug ect, we do allow roleplaying on creative however you have to do it in a clanchat so the whole server doesn't see it.

With all due respect I think you're shutting these ideas down too quickly. I can see how you might not want World Edit allowed even for the short amount of time players would be allowed to use it, however other servers manage this fine. Having limits such as only being allowed to World Edit your own claimed land, not being allowed to World edit huge amounts so it doesn't create lag. I don't know all of the world edit commands but you could disallow any that would be overpowered. It wouldn't really effect how long people stay on the server because there's only so much you can do with it, you can't do detail for example.

 

You may not like it, I'm not particularly fond of it, but it appeals to the target audience of most creative servers. You only need to go onto any sort of creative or freebuild server to see these types of things draw in numerous players.

 

If you want more players you're going to have to change, there's no two ways about it. Rather than shutting these ideas down immediately, discuss them, speak about the pros and cons. 

[barneygale]

Creative mode hasn't been improved much since 1.0, whereas SMP is constantly added to. As TornadoHorse says, the main audience for creative servers is roleplayers and freebuild/megaproject people. There are a number of servers already filling those requirements so reddit creative gets a weird bunch of people, most of whom don't stay very long. Projects like Dome don't make sense anymore as most people are used to terraforming with WE, WP, etc.

Frankly I think even part-allowing WE or allowing roleplaying with proximity chat wouldn't increase numbers that much. Creative is a dead game mode for 95% of minecraft players, and those that do use it mostly plan builds for survival.

[buzzinbee]

We have had World edit allowed for mods before and from asking thrawn about it this was removed due to large amounts of abuse with the tool, it is WAY too over powered. Coloured names just give the impression of favourites within players, something I am completely against with creative. If we allowed players to modreq for world edited areas admins would have far too many requests as everyone would want their build world edited. As I stated before mods have had world edit but it is abused too much to enable for mods to use. We would have to judge each case to see if it is suitable for world edit eg if it's too large to cause lag or if it's potentially damaging or going into another region. As I said we allow roleplay on creative but you just have to keep it to a clanchat, I don't see what the problem with that is as everyone that wants to be involved is able to we aren't stopping people saying in chat we are going to roleplay anyone that wants to join can pm me and i'll add you to the clanchat. If someone is too lazy to create a channel then I don't see them lasting long on the server anyway. As you requested I'll make a pros and cons list for both.

 

World edit PROS:

• You are able to complete your build faster
• You are able to make a more detailed build
• You are less likely to be burned out with building
• It is useful for attracting players to the server
• It is a useful tool for things such as terraforming

World edit CONS:

• It causes lag
• It would have to be monitored to reduce lag
• Incredibly easy to abuse
• More difficult to fix if used badly
• Used by mods before and had to be removed due to abuse
• If made into a modreq system admins would have to handle all requests
• Areas would have to be assessed to see if world edit would affect someone else's region
• Most modreqs would be for the use of world edit creating a lot of stress on the admins.
• Reduces build satisfaction which is a prime source for a lot of our players to leave
• Use of world edit on a build run by several players could cause player dispute about the build.
• Makes large scale digging projects such as the domes redundant they do bring in a lot of players to the server and are enjoyed by most that participate in them.

Roleplay in general chat PROS:

• Attracts an audience of younger players that want to roleplay.
• Saves players from creating a clanchat channel.

I am sorry but I genuinely can't think of any other pros for this.

 

Roleplay in general chat CONS:

• Spams chat
• Annoys a lot of players that want to use chat for general building purposes
• Often misleading in cases where arguments break out it would be difficult to assess if it's a genuine argument or not
• Attracts an audience of younger players that want to roleplay (honestly the creative server was meant for a more adult theme, if we have a lot of younger players joining they are going to be exposed to a lot of bad language and more adult humour, which would lead to them complaining or us having parents complain.)
• We already allow it in clanchat it's not that difficult to make a channel to do it in.

Colourful names in chat PROS:

• Player feel a bit better about themselves for having a different coloured name than everyone else.
• Could potentially be used as a reward for stuff.

Again I'm sorry but I can't think of any more pros for this.

 

Colourful names in chat CONS:

• A lot of our current c players don't like colourful names in chat as it looks tacky and distracting.
• Could promote the idea of favouritism in chat.
• Often drives older players away as it gives off the impression of a server for younger players
• Could lead to things along the lines of "I have a colourful name you have to do what I say" so promotes arrogance.
• Gives no real promotion for gameplay.

 

We have gone over most of the things mentioned but these have always been our least favourite aspects of minecraft that we see in a lot of servers nowadays.

 

EDIT: Feel free to add in any pros you think of I really couldn't find many more.

[buzzinbee]

By limiting world edit the only cons that would really solve would be lag and it being monitored.

[TornadoHorse]

To me it seems that you're trying to prove why these things would be bad rather than thinking of solutions to the problems you've suggested. If you're not open minded then Creative won't change and you'll stick to the small player base it has now. If you only allow World Edit in the player's own land then it'd reduce the amount of monitoring needed. Again, if you limit the size of area and certain blocks (lava, water etc.) that you can World Edit it'd both reduce lag and the need for monitoring. I'm not really sure how you'd be able to abuse this either if these limits were set in place but you could add a rule - "No abusing of the World Edit command" and list examples of what comes under abuse. Remember that this is only a perk or reward, not a thing that you have all of the time. Make it quite difficult to achieve and you're not going to have everyone World Editting at the same time. You're not being forced to use it either. For the domes you could simply disallow World Edit in that area.

 

 

 

• Attracts an audience of younger players that want to roleplay (honestly the creative server was meant for a more adult theme, if we have a lot of younger players joining they are going to be exposed to a lot of bad language and more adult humour, which would lead to them complaining or us having parents complain.)

If you want more players then you're going to have to break away from having an 'adult theme', it's simple. Whether you like it or not you're going to have to target a younger audience if you want to increase the player base.

 

Having coloured names doesn't promote favouritism. If anyone and everyone can get it and there's no picking or choosing then it can't be favouritism. It doesn't have to be a coloured name, it could be a coloured tag or icon. These are just suggestions, I was hoping for a bit more discussion and solutions rather than just why they wouldn't work.

[Difficult1]

Why don't we have a clan type thing for builder groups, it will help add a bit of personality

[Difficult1]

Yes.....but I intend to stick with it

Edited December 28, 2013 by Difficult1

[Difficult1]

More adverts would help.... but arnt we doing the same things today as we did in the old days of C when we actually had more players?  In Fact another player Derpinator and I have already started using youtube build interviews. "diff and derps builder interviews" I cant post a link but you can look it up.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Difficult1

[ROCKONN]

Why don't we have a clan type thing for builder groups, it will help add a bit of personality

Suggested that. Still floating around, somewhere

[ROCKONN]

The one main feature that separates our Creative server & the vast majority of others is the plot system. With the system, it's fairly simple to limit usage of Worldedit & confine a player's edits to a singular area, making it far easier to monitor. While the plot system does include the option to allow other players to build with you on your plot, it distinctly separates builds & players from each other, which goes without saying is not what our attitude toward creative mode is & has been for the past few years.

 

Worldedit commands, though they can be restricted to smaller uses, can be easily abused to destroy other people's builds in a freeworld environment, and are more than a little bit of a pain to repair. Though a small portion of the argument against it can be attributed to the stress it puts on the server, the potential for its abuse far outweighs any other argument.

[coolgamerovr90]

The one main feature that separates our Creative server & the vast majority of others is the plot system. With the system, it's fairly simple to limit usage of Worldedit & confine a player's edits to a singular area, making it far easier to monitor. While the plot system does include the option to allow other players to build with you on your plot, it distinctly separates builds & players from each other, which goes without saying is not what our attitude toward creative mode is & has been for the past few years.

 

Worldedit commands, though they can be restricted to smaller uses, can be easily abused to destroy other people's builds in a freeworld environment, and are more than a little bit of a pain to repair. Though a small portion of the argument against it can be attributed to the stress it puts on the server, the potential for its abuse far outweighs any other argument.

It's also fun to see new people joining say "where can I build?, what, there's no plot system? That's awesome", too. To give people WorldEdit, they would have to be limited to just a very small plot, and just building in a small square compared to no limits limits the things and creations that people can build, and usually draws more people away than pulling them in.

I remember when Minecraft Classic was all about "Free build" and "build where ever you want, no limits" and attracted a bunch of people wanting that experience to it, until mojang killed classic.

I would just hate to see c.nerd.nu go to a plot limit just to have worldedit. I don't care about worldedit as long as we keep the same experience as we have now.

[buzzinbee]

One of my main points of concerns is allowing things like coloured chat which would annoy a lot of players on our server, I'd favour keeping our existing bunch of players over attracting a lot of new players any day.

[ROCKONN]

We really don't need to add anything, or take away anything either. All we need to do is put out some kind of advertisement, as many of us have suggested many times.

[TornadoHorse]

It's also fun to see new people joining say "where can I build?, what, there's no plot system? That's awesome", too. To give people WorldEdit, they would have to be limited to just a very small plot, and just building in a small square compared to no limits limits the things and creations that people can build, and usually draws more people away than pulling them in.

I remember when Minecraft Classic was all about "Free build" and "build where ever you want, no limits" and attracted a bunch of people wanting that experience to it, until mojang killed classic.

 

Don't have it all plots, have many 50-100 around spawn and the rest of the map the normal terrain. It would give people a choice.

 

We really don't need to add anything, or take away anything either. All we need to do is put out some kind of advertisement, as many of us have suggested many times.

 

I doubt this. Advertising is definitely needed of course but it's keeping the players which is also a keep factor. Where would you advertise? Videos clearly don't bring in enough of an audience and we're unlikely to get too much advertising through /r/minecraft. You could advertise on a website like minecraftservers.org but we don't have the money to do that, it's unlikely we'll be able to get enough money to do it sustain a position there and you'd bring in a younger audience that wouldn't be that interested in our creative server.

[ROCKONN]

Don't have it all plots, have many 50-100 around spawn and the rest of the map the normal terrain. It would give people a choice.

 

 

I doubt this. Advertising is definitely needed of course but it's keeping the players which is also a keep factor. Where would you advertise? Videos clearly don't bring in enough of an audience and we're unlikely to get too much advertising through /r/minecraft. You could advertise on a website like minecraftservers.org but we don't have the money to do that, it's unlikely we'll be able to get enough money to do it sustain a position there and you'd bring in a younger audience that wouldn't be that interested in our creative server.

Considering we have no advertising venue of our own, in any form, it couldn't hurt. We have our pride as the longest running servers, as well as just plain (but safe) vanilla aspects of creative that can't be found on many others. There's been more than a few threads discussing this, and at the moment it's the only step that can be taken without changing the dynamics of C we know & love.

[EeHee2000]

Don't have it all plots, have many 50-100 around spawn and the rest of the map the normal terrain. It would give people a choice.

 

That's the solution. Don't have Worldedit access for the entire map, don't have it as a default permission, just have a large array of differently sized plots surrounding spawn. /modreq for one, get it, and along with it perms for that area. I'm sure it can be done, we just needs the techs to work hard on it, put some care into it. 

[ROCKONN]

That's the solution. Don't have Worldedit access for the entire map, don't have it as a default permission, just have a large array of differently sized plots surrounding spawn. /modreq for one, get it, and along with it perms for that area. I'm sure it can be done, we just needs the techs to work hard on it, put some care into it. 

....Permissions don't work like that.