Does anybody have ideas for making Survival more accessible? I need them for my poll.

[Elephant Parade]

Survival doesn't have as many players as PvE, and I'm currently trying to figure out how this problem could be solved. I'm making a Google Forms poll on the subject, and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas.

I'm currently planning to make two forms; one will be for non-players about what would make them play, and one will be for players about what would make them leave. I hope that this will reveal a possible change that will cause more people to join without alienating the existing playerbase.

Once the surveys are finished, I'll post them on the forums and subreddit. After some time has been allowed for people to respond, I'll release the results so that people can look at them.

Crossposted from reddit.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Elephant Parade

[ROCKONN]

One of the real, inevitable problems with S is that, by the end of the first week, there's always at least one major group fully equiped with diamond gear, horses, farms etc. Everyone else by that point either is on their way to that status, controlling land/resources, or is already embroiled in feudal wars among themselves (and any passers-by). S loses the majority of its appeal to new players after this first week, as new players recognize the enormous difficulty of striking out on their own, avoiding constant attacks on their person as they leave populated areas, finding "safe" unpopulated areas, and just surviving against overwhelming forces in general.

There really isnt anything wrong with S's current gameplay features- the problem lies in the nature of the gameplay itself.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ROCKONN

[Elephant Parade]

One of the real, inevitable problems with S is that, by the end of the first week, there's always at least one major group fully equiped with diamond gear, horses, farms etc. Everyone else by that point either is on their way to that status, controlling land/resources, or is already embroiled in feudal wars among themselves (and any passers-by). S loses the majority of its appeal to new players after this first week, as new players recognize the enormous difficulty of striking out on their own, avoiding constant attacks on their person as they leave populated areas, finding "safe" unpopulated areas, and just surviving against overwhelming forces in general.

There really isnt anything wrong with S's current gameplay features- the problem lies in the nature of the gameplay itself.

Hmm. Is there anything currently that actually encourages people to kill random unarmoured players? I know that the website has kill statistics, but I'm not sure that that's what's causing it.

[buzzie71]

Hmm. Is there anything currently that actually encourages people to kill random unarmoured players? I know that the website has kill statistics, but I'm not sure that that's what's causing it.

 

The site is programmed such that you get on the leaderboard by participating in battles with armor, not simply by number of kills.  (http://redditpublic.com/wiki/Survival/rankings)

[Rcub3161]

Sure, people who are set up after the first week just look for people to kill. But, they are set up and have nothing more to do. It would be great if more people got together on survival and made towns and rail systems like PvE does creating more of a community and a sense of belonging to the server. That does not require anything from the server but communication from the players. It would be interesting to have rivaling towns that would have wars or something. I also believe that allowing the moderators on Survival to do more arenas would also bring people to play. Not only having planned arenas like the one this Saturday, but also having more of random arenas that are just on a whim. Maybe creating a survival arena mod team(kinda like this: https://nerd.nu/forums/index.php?/topic/1865-idea-a-lead-in-every-staff-team/), where they focus on only the arena aspect of moderating on survival and will not have to worry themselves with much else, unless they want to of course. Maybe creating more risk/ways to lose things would get people playing more, more arenas is one way to accomplish this. Because like I said once a person is set up with their base, there is nothing more for them to really do. Another way to potentially fix this is somehow being able to destroy another persons chests to get to their items. The owner of the chest would get a notification of who destroyed it, that way it kind of creates an enemy for the owner to go after. People are a little too nice on survival (despite common opinion) some sort of rivalry would be a nice change to survival. I believe something like this would give people more incentive to play and make sure that their stuff is not being taken. However, destroying someones chest and getting their items should not be easy, one idea (from monfmonf) was maybe creating some sort of new tool/pickaxe out of 3 nether stars and 2 diamond blocks as the sticks. Another idea to implement this would be locking your chests with diamonds/iron/gold each diamond/iron/gold you put on a chest would allow it to be locked for X amount of breaks, it would have to be a pretty big number since we have efficiency tools. New players would be able to have their chests locked for a couple days without having to have them locked by diamonds/iron/gold. But, implementing something like locking with diamonds might create a bit of a learning curve on survival, though it is worth a shot since things are pretty stale. I also think that the enchanting system is a little hard to understand for new players. The enchanting system might turn new players off from learning how to enchant. I love the plugin, but most new people have no Idea what the hell they are doing in that enchanting system. I would love to keep the plugin with somehow teaching new players how to enchant using it. Another idea awhile back was to give new players 20 minutes to an hour of being immune to PvP. This would help fix the problem that seems to be turning off a lot of new players from survival, as stated by ROCKONN. All these ideas are ways that I believe will help to change survival for the better, while keeping most of the old players.

 

TL;DR:

• Become a community and make towns like PvE (creating rivalries?)
• More arenas/events
• Creating arena/event mod team
• Maybe being able to destroy others chests (with difficulty)
• Look over enchant system making it less intimidating to new players
• Give new players 20 minutes to an hour of being immune to PvP

[Four_Down]

Cross posting a good comment on the subreddit thread.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/22obk6/does_anybody_have_any_ideas_for_making_survival/cgp3guo

[Django_Fett]

I like the idea Rcub has with having some events like PvE does, as well as more of a community based type game style. As someone who genrally plays alone anyways, and is fairly new to the S server, I still enjoy it, but the numbers don't lie, sadly.

[ROCKONN]

 

Sure, people who are set up after the first week just look for people to kill. But, they are set up and have nothing more to do.

Just want to clarify that I meant that seeing other players so well-established/fortified is a majorly imposing factor for new players. Gives them a sense that they're no match for such a force, and shouldn't bother trying. Not to say that no newer players will attack fully armored players immediately after running out of the spawn, but that it puts them off a bit. There's also the variant of players who, after fighting & losing against a fully armored opponent immediately after running out of the spawn, simply don't respawn & leave.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ROCKONN

[slide]

To me, it's almost all about attitude. S seems or has in the past seemed to encourage a more asshole atmosphere. Sure fighting is antagonistic by nature, but the levels there I feel greatly dissuade new players from sticking around and anyone voicing an opinion that it could be toned down a bit has historically been downvoted/shunned as not a real s player etc. Just my 2 cents

[Pyr0mrcow]

I remember logging in to S last rev to send some messages to people about PvE since the people I wanted to contact completely stopped going there (which, to slide's point, were more or less shot down immediately), and while standing at the spawnpoint had someone in full enchanted diamond plating jumping up and down shooting fire arrows at me. That seems like it'd be at least a little intimidating to players looking for a server.

 

Personally, I tend to only go on survival servers if griefing or at least some form of chest stealing is allowed, so that as a newcommer I could at least have a chance to catch up. But that's me.
On that point though, there are some plugins for giving people a chance to break into chests in exchange for an item or other aspect. This one hasn't updated in a while, but the general idea is there: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/allow-lockpicking/

[Rcub3161]

 

Personally, I tend to only go on survival servers if griefing or at least some form of chest stealing is allowed, so that as a newcommer I could at least have a chance to catch up. But that's me.

On that point though, there are some plugins for giving people a chance to break into chests in exchange for an item or other aspect. This one hasn't updated in a while, but the general idea is there: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/allow-lockpicking/

Yes please, something like this would be wonderful or some way to get into other peoples chests. I also think giving the owner of the chest a notification that their chest has been picked would be good too because it could start rivalries.

[Guest]

Yes please, something like this would be wonderful or some way to get into other peoples chests. I also think giving the owner of the chest a notification that their chest has been picked would be good too because it could start rivalries.

 

I doubt people will stay after their chests were all lockpicked. This plugin (in my opinion) would put an opposite effect in play, where people who play on nerd.nu regularary will get frustrated with the server and leave. Please don't add this.

[EeHee2000]

To me, it's almost all about attitude. S seems or has in the past seemed to encourage a more asshole atmosphere. Sure fighting is antagonistic by nature, but the levels there I feel greatly dissuade new players from sticking around and anyone voicing an opinion that it could be toned down a bit has historically been downvoted/shunned as not a real s player etc. Just my 2 cents

 

Survival can be a dick server at times, I get that - but we aren't nearly as bad as you would think.

I've seen many of our experienced players avoid killing new players, allowing them to get settled in and generally feel a little welcome. I often Skype with a few of the more "toxic" labelled players of S, but I've noticed that there's recently been a good-guy personality when it comes to meeting a new player. I've seen clans attack and kill another member of their clan because of killing a new player. 

Something that's becoming more frequent is people seeing a new player and leaving him alone, saying something like "Ah, he's new, I'll let him live this time." People are starting to understand that killing people the minute they step onto PvP-enabled ground is going to drive them away - because it does drive them away. 

-

DerpyNewPlayer has joined the game.

<DerpyNewPlayer> Hello to all.

<DerpyNewPlayer> Where can I find land to build upon?

DerpyNewPlayer was killed by ToxicCockwad using Diamond Sword.

DerpyNewPlayer has left the game. 

I've seen the above scenario happen far too many times in the past, and it still happens. It's not necessarily a horrible thing to do, this is a PvP server after-all. However, it's healthy for us as a server to allow new players to actually settle in, rather than being insta-killed. 

I can understand how people can be a little intimidated if they're killed by a player in full Diamond Armour within one minute of setting foot on the ground. Sure, you can just jump back into the game, but if you're server-hopping, you're looking for something that you will thoroughly enjoy. Being killed by a Golden Apple isn't really what you're going to be looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I love being a toxic asshole, most of you should know that by now. But if we want a playercount injection, we're going to need to go easy on the new players a little. I don't mean treating them as gods, but rather allowing them to at least build a shitshack in the woods before hunting them down. 

And hey, if you really need to go so far to kill them, at least have the courtesy to leave their shit behind for them. You most likely won't be needing it. 

Going onto the lockpicking idea, I'm a very strong no. That would kill PvP very effectively. Lockpicking a clan's supplies would become more important than killing them, because that's all you would need to do in order to kill in the first place. Having a chest full of Stone Swords out the front of your base would be useless, and any other chests you'd have would be completely ransacked to the point where a rivalry won't mean shit - because you're going to be forced to fistfight a fully armored player. A newbie effortlessly scoring all of your Diamond Armour, Swords, Bows, Potions, without needing any experience of any sort would be terrible. 

A new player could just jump on, take your shit and leave. I can't comprehend a plugin like that being able to outweigh its negatives.

</rant> 

Edited April 12, 2014 by EeHee2000

[djt832]

Survival can be a dick server at times, I get that - but we aren't nearly as bad as you would think.

I've seen many of our experienced players avoid killing new players, allowing them to get settled in and generally feel a little welcome. I often Skype with a few of the more "toxic" labelled players of S, but I've noticed that there's recently been a good-guy personality when it comes to meeting a new player. I've seen clans attack and kill another member of their clan because of killing a new player. 

 

It seems to me that some players that hardly get on S tend to describe everyone there as "toxic". By labeling all of us in a negative way, nobody from any other servers (such a C and P) would be inclined to give it a try. As a community with 3 separate servers for 3 different play styles, we still need to remember we are all part of the larger nerd.nu community.

[Rcub3161]

I doubt people will stay after their chests were all lockpicked. This plugin (in my opinion) would put an opposite effect in play, where people who play on nerd.nu regularary will get frustrated with the server and leave. Please don't add this.

Why would it be easy to pick a chest? Details would have to thought out about it. It would not make people not want to play. Why not attempt to try something instead of just talking about it. It is all talk, nothing gets done.

[TornadoHorse]

Why would it be easy to pick a chest? Details would have to thought out about it. It would not make people not want to play. Why not attempt to try something instead of just talking about it. It is all talk, nothing gets done.

 

Because something like basically unlocking chests is a big decision. We've always had lwc and everyone is used to it. It would change the way that Survival is played. Bases, or at least chest rooms, would have to be built for protection and functionality rather than aesthetics. This isn't something that you can implement without thinking about the consequences.

[buchanman]

First off, it's early morning and I may not be thinking clearly. I hope you can understand what's written below.

 

I think the biggest problem right now, and has been since a year ago, is how no one wants any [large] change. Once a change does get implemented, it gets shot down and removed. The main argument against the lock picking plugin is how we fear that old players and people who are loyal to S will leave, and how we're so used to lwc. However, I believe certain changes should be added whether the regulars like it or not. It's clear that the way regulars are now able to say what's right and wrong is a problem, and always has been.

 

 

Minimal changes go a long way

As most of the regulars know, there is a mob-limiter plugin that limits the number of mobs in a chunk to reduce lag. This change, as far as I know, hasn't gotten much hate (or any hate at all) due to the overall impact this plugin had on the server. In the past, large changes like removing certain enchantments and adding a SimpleClan plugin got a lot of hate. Lock picking would also have a great impact, because that enables people to be able to loot chests. This is a whole new style of gameplay, and this will get regulars to be angry and leave. Going away from the style of "Survival" always has been looked down upon. So why not tweak some aspects of survival, but not change it entirely that it completely changes the way survival players play? In addition to becoming a unique server, these small changes can keep survival from being too repetitive each rev (it used to be fun to go in iron armor and fight, that is no longer the case. It used to be fun to go in diamond and fight, and it's becoming boring. Ender dragons were always sought after when the new update came out, but it's become boring to most; everything eventually gets so repetitive it's not fun anymore). 

 

Golden Days Mindset

Another problem I want to address is the mindset that most people have in some way or another. Regulars especially want the good ol' "Golden Days" like Rev 5-8 or 14-16. We're so focused on trying to get S back to it's old state that we don't see that it's wrong. S needs to be moving forwards, not backwards. This server is clearly not moving forward, especially because there have been small changes added so infrequently that each rev becomes repetitive, like mentioned above. I believe that we need to stop disagreeing with every change, even if it sounds off, because it may work out in the end. 

 

My brain can't think of anything else to say, so like EeHee,

</rant>

[Rcub3161]

Because something like basically unlocking chests is a big decision. We've always had lwc and everyone is used to it. It would change the way that Survival is played. Bases, or at least chest rooms, would have to be built for protection and functionality rather than aesthetics. This isn't something that you can implement without thinking about the consequences.

How do you suggest we create a fresh new feeling on survival without changing some core aspect of play? Lock picking could only be done when the player the chest is locked to is online, that way they can stop you. Again it's not like it will take seconds to be able to unlock chests it would be a difficult process. You just shoot down the idea without having anyone expand on how it could be implemented and tested. "We've always had lwc and everyone is used to it", just because we have always had it doesn't mean we can't change. I mean let's try something. I feel raiding some bases would be fun, why not let us test it out? Lock picking will most likely not be implemented you know why? Because we want to keep the 15 regulars we have, I don't think the people who are regulars on the server are regulars because they enjoy the heck out of playing survival, it's because they like who they are playing with. No one change is going to make them leave, though I could be wrong. You said that more advertisement would be good, I agree but we have been talking about advertising the servers other than reddit for how many years now, I don't think it has changed much. I might be coming off as a little bit of an ass, and I am sorry for that. I'm just trying to voice my opinion is the best way possible.

 

 

Golden Days Mindset

Another problem I want to address is the mindset that most people have in some way or another. Regulars especially want the good ol' "Golden Days" like Rev 5-8 or 14-16. We're so focused on trying to get S back to it's old state that we don't see that it's wrong. S needs to be moving forwards, not backwards. This server is clearly not moving forward, especially because there have been small changes added so infrequently that each rev becomes repetitive, like mentioned above. I believe that we need to stop disagreeing with every change, even if it sounds off, because it may work out in the end. 

 

My brain can't think of anything else to say, so like EeHee,

</rant>

Change is good, it keeps the server moving forward. It is hard to take a step backwards right now. Like you said even small changes are good, I really think we should try and put in a 20-60 minute PvP protection for new players, just to see if it keep more players playing and not leaving after they get killed.

[TornadoHorse]

You just shoot down the idea without having anyone expand on how it could be implemented and tested. "We've always had lwc and everyone is used to it", just because we have always had it doesn't mean we can't change.

 

I've not shot any idea down, we can't just add it straight away as you suggested earlier. Both pros and cons need to be presented to the players before we can make a decision like this. This isn't the sort of thing you can change just because you think it'll work.

 

Change is good, it keeps the server moving forward. It is hard to take a step backwards right now. Like you said even small changes are good, I really think we should try and put in a 20-60 minute PvP protection for new players, just to see if it keep more players playing and not leaving after they get killed.

 

In your absence this was tried, however it would need to be re-evaluated before being re-implemented. New players were running around in armour whilst still in the protection which lead to swarms of players following them until the protection was up and they could be killed. There were others problems that I can't remember of off the top of my head right now that lead to it only being used for 1 revision.

[Rcub3161]

I've not shot any idea down, we can't just add it straight away as you suggested earlier. Both pros and cons need to be presented to the players before we can make a decision like this. This isn't the sort of thing you can change just because you think it'll work.

 

 

In your absence this was tried, however it would need to be re-evaluated before being re-implemented. New players were running around in armour whilst still in the protection which lead to swarms of players following them until the protection was up and they could be killed. There were others problems that I can't remember of off the top of my head right now that lead to it only being used for 1 revision.

I never suggested adding it straight away, if it seemed that way I guess I was being unclear. I would think that if you hit someone your PvP protection would be removed. Though I was not around when it was added so we'd need more input from those who were around with the protection.

[EeHee2000]

Hey, let's chill a little.
Whilst change for the servers is always a pos- oh wait, it isn't. At all. 
Drastic changes to a fundamental part of S can, and likely will fuck shit up if we jump straight into it. Long discussions are required for huge changes, and even then it's hard to come to a good conclusion. 

 

 

It seems to me that some players that hardly get on S tend to describe everyone there as "toxic". By labeling all of us in a negative way, nobody from any other servers (such a C and P) would be inclined to give it a try. As a community with 3 separate servers for 3 different play styles, we still need to remember we are all part of the larger nerd.nu community.

There's a keyword in here: "community".
Servers shouldn't have gaping rifts plotted against eachother. I know I'm one of the people that founded the hate of many Creative players for PvE, but my mindset since then has changed drastically. I think a lot of us forget, myself included, that we shouldn't be promoting a hate of other servers. 
It's gotten to the point where if a Survival player joins a PvE channel in Mumble, the room goes quiet. Same goes for the opposite. That isn't really how it should be. The tension the servers is a bit ridiculous if you look at it from a distance. I'm not telling you all to forget incidents that have happened between servers, but rather pointing out just how fucked we are in that regard. 
I love a little competition between servers, but it's gotten to the point where we despise eachother - something went wrong. 

Edited April 13, 2014 by EeHee2000

[kitcatbar]

It's gotten to the point where if a Survival player joins a PvE channel in Mumble, the room goes quiet.

 

We're a quiet bunch. =(

[EeHee2000]

We're a quiet bunch. =(

For sure. :D

[barneygale]

Idea 1:

 

1. Hold MCPublic fundraiser

2. Buy 2nd box

3. Fill it with a bunch of experimental servers (minigames, survival w/ economy, factions, etc)

4. See what is successful and move survival in that direction

 

Idea 2:

 

As I said on the subreddit, we should stop making tight-knit and elite clans, and just play survival more derpily and for the fun of it. A lot of people seem to be in the mindset that every survival rev might be the last ever good one, so they invest nothing into growing the server and everything into getting geared up as quickly as possible and PVPing all the time. Could someone please make a rail network, a hotel, a series of shops, etc! My experience of running a noob clan was very positive.

 

Idea 3:

 

Not really an idea, just an observation. Vanilla is not anywhere near as attractive as it once was. Things like making shops (as I mentioned before) are boring once you've seen how easy it is on a server with an economy mod. Vanilla is really fucking niche nowadays. I'd really prefer it if we were doing our own gameplay style, something sufficiently *different* from both vanilla and standard survival-y servers.

[Elephant Parade]

Well, the problem with adding an economy is that it might alienate the existing playerbase.

Of course, the poll would help everyone figure out exactly how much of the playerbase would be alienated. I'll add that.