[PMC] Inactive Staff Policy

[SwitchViewz]

Hey there everyone, recently [removed] was posted on the subreddit. While the comments in that thread certainly aren't productive and is basically "make everyone an admin" I think it has a valid point. Taking a look at the staff page we have 5 head admins, 6 tech admins, and various server admins and mods.

 

Looking at the list, I see many inactive staff members in every group (except maybe server specific admins). This really shouldn't be the case. I should see maybe 1 or 2 inactive people on the entire staff page, maybe a few more, but certainly no one in a admin or above position. Sadly, that is not the case, and to me that's really not acceptable. We need active admins and active staff to keep the servers going and to constantly have improvement.

 

I understand that real life happens (I myself have not been playing much because of school) but when you have hardly any play time on any server or haven't been seen in who knows how long, then we have a problem. This is going to sound blunt but I think it has a valid point: If you can not play on the servers or make an appearance regularly (whether it is mumble or ingame), you need to step down from your position.

 

We need to come up with some sort of policy or something that regulates what is inactive and what happens when you are inactive. (such as staff need to make a appearance in mumble every so often or in game). We also need to clean up the current staff list. People have been inactive for to long and we need to do something about it.

[Trooprm32]

Staff need to make more than just an "appearance" tbh. They need to actually contribute to the servers. Logging on once a week on either minecraft, mumble, ect... should not be considered active for a staff member, especially if they're not a Head Admin or Tech Admin; Those of whom can contribute elsewhere.

[SwitchViewz]

Staff need to make more than just an "appearance" tbh. They need to actually contribute to the servers. Logging on once a week on either minecraft, mumble, ect... should not be considered active for a staff member, especially if they're not a Head Admin or Tech Admin; Those of whom can contribute elsewhere.

I agree but we also can't use this as an excuse. Just because a tech admin does "code behind the scenes" all the time or head admins "contribute and write policy" all the time but don't make an appearance in game or mumble does not mean they can sit in there position. They need to be doing both. Such as I have been incredibly busy with school and don't have much play time, but I am always in mumble and IRC, I come on everyday to interact with the community as well as check out xray and modreqs, and I interact with the community. That's what ALL staff members need to do, contribute to the servers as well as interact with the community.

[Trooprm32]

I agree.

 

The problem with the last active staff cleanup, specifically active moderators, was that we took them for their word that they would be active, or measured activity solely on forum usage. Since that last active mod cleanup, there are plenty of names that promised activity, but didn't follow through on it.

[MasterCommaThe]

The image links on the staff page should reference a site that actively looks up our skins, atleast periodically. I haven't had the skin shown for almost a year!

[Diamond_Lover123]

It is a problem that several of our admins are inactive, but if they were to step down to allow for someone more active to take their place, who would that someone be? On C, there's hardly anyone to choose from.

[SwitchViewz]

Its been a few days since I posted this would it be possible to get some sort of Head Admin response on this issue?

 

It is a problem that several of our admins are inactive, but if they were to step down to allow for someone more active to take their place, who would that someone be? On C, there's hardly anyone to choose from.

 

Usually Head Admins are picked from the server admins and server admins are picked from the mod group. I don't know how tech admins are picked. If we don't have enough active staff on C then we need to start looking into bringing on more mods from C. If there's no players to look at becoming mods then I'm not sure. =/

[Trooprm32]

Its been a few days since I posted this would it be possible to get some sort of Head Admin response on this issue?

 

 

Usually Head Admins are picked from the server admins and server admins are picked from the mod group. I don't know how tech admins are picked. If we don't have enough active staff on C then we need to start looking into bringing on more mods from C. If there's no players to look at becoming mods then I'm not sure. =/

 

It's not that there's a low mod count on C, there just isn't a viable selection, considering most of the C mods are quite new to the position right now.

This is at least what I can see.

 

Edit: But I do agree we need more active admins and Head Admins.

 

I hope to see something rolled out soon.

[CROCKODUCK]

Its like every 4 to 5 months I'll see a post like this. In fact the last one I wrote in may (on mobile or would link)

I am truly pondering what we expect vs what we can get out of our head admins. It seems unreasonable at this point to expect the old days of JA and skuld who would be on 17 hours a day. I hope everyone realizes this and can put forth some kind of policy for: if you dont play, resign or something to that effect.

[Trooprm32]

So just a quick bump here. I know we touched up on the activity of admins, but didn't really discuss mods in the meeting. Are we going to do a active mod list cleanup soon? Can we measure activity levels in different ways this time as well; mainly based off in-game activity with the forum being a subset. The previous cleanup was poorly done IMO, and many of the inactive staff haven't been active since that time, and even before that. It goes to show we can't depend on peoples promise of activity, but have to see activity trends as a drawing point.

 

If this is currently being discussed, just let us know here; it's OK as long as I know there is progress being put towards this.

[Mrloud15]

So just a quick bump here. I know we touched up on the activity of admins, but didn't really discuss mods in the meeting. Are we going to do a active mod list cleanup soon? Can we measure activity levels in different ways this time as well; mainly based off in-game activity with the forum being a subset. The previous cleanup was poorly done IMO, and many of the inactive staff haven't been active since that time, and even before that. It goes to show we can't depend on peoples promise of activity, but have to see activity trends as a drawing point.

 

If this is currently being discussed, just let us know here; it's OK as long as I know there is progress being put towards this.

What should we considered active, x number of hours in game, number of modreqs completed, or something else?

[TornadoHorse]

What should we considered active, x number of hours in game, number of modreqs completed, or something else?

 

I would say helping with anything to do with staff that players cannot do - modreqs, hosting events, staff discussions etc. If they are actively contributing there, then I would deem them to be active.

 

If they are only contributing on the forums/subreddit and not actually playing the game, but their contributions are useful then I would say that could count as being active, however if their contributions aren't really helping then they should be spoken to about it.

 

If they are not meeting the criteria of being staff here then speak to them, let them know if their activity hasn't increased then they will be removed. If they do not reply, remove them. If they reply saying that they'll be more active but then don't become more active, remove them. If they step up activity and get back into the community more, fantastic! With all of these things, punctual communication is the key. Discuss a time-based goal for them to reach - if they aren't active within 2 weeks then they'll be have to step down/be removed.

[Mrloud15]

What should we considered active, x number of hours in game, number of modreqs completed, or something else?

After rereading this it might have come across rude. It was not my intention to come across rude, so I'm sorry if it did. 

 

I'm working on a reply to the whole thread which I plan to post either today or tomorrow. 

[Mrloud15]

I'm working on a reply to the whole thread which I plan to post either today or tomorrow. 

yeah, I'm a bit late. I keep changing what I want to say, but it's been long enough that I need to post something.  

 

Inactive admins: This is an issue that I think needs to be addressed at the admin level which has been. If I get the time this week I will write a little more on this issue.

 

Inactive mods: This is an issue, but to me it's not a pressing one. I can't really think of huge downside to having some inactive mods, so cleaning up the list of staff is not a high priority for me right now. That being said, I can't see everything, so if there is a big issue with having inactive mods that I'm not seeing let me know and I can deal with it sooner. 

[XkinOEC]

As I said in my post relating to the inactive head admins several months ago, which got a lot of backlash about tech admins doing back end stuff and head admins dealing with community relations...  I think simply having a bit of a presence on the Minecraft servers is quite vital. There is a visual level of interest that is represented by at least being on the servers once in a while. Players would like to know that the people in charge of their game are actually interested in said game. I hate to speak by example, but when my original post was written, neither wickedcoolsteve nor draykhar were online on either of the 3 servers for at least 3 months. To a player, and even to us moderators, that would show a lack of interest or concern for the game which they lead. (used as example, I am aware of circumstances)

 

I personally would hate to say there should be a set limit... But unless you all will stop being over concerned with things players don't much notice any changes for, and start playing blocks again like the rest of us... there may very well have to be a minimum visit/visit time limit. And no, this cannot be solved by required group presence, or going afk on the server.

 

This brings to light problems with the mod nomination techniques as well. if you're not present, you shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on someone. "does not know well enough" should be used if a staff member hasn't encountered this user in over a month simply because things change, and we once again get into an endless cycle of one persons opinion changing the whole crowds, and YES an inactive (currently and at the time) staff member is guilty of this. 

 

Anyways, back on track... To the players it is quite important that those high up names on the staff page actually pay a visit. I've been asked several times if AlLnAtuRalX, LadyCailin, or Daeygo will be on any time soon. They have never seen them, therefore they find them to be clogging up positions, regardless if they are constantly programming and such for the servers. It doesn't show the players that you have interest. It's a game about blocks, not about programming or community relations. Take a break, and get to know the people you're leading.

 

I don't want to come off as harsh, but the reason many players express hatred towards the staff as of recent relates to the fact that you're making decisions based on people you don't get to know in any normal way. New people to Pve hated Tompreuss because he was stern and strict to the rules, while long time players tended to enjoy his presence. After spending a bit more time on P, and communicating with him more in the environment that we play/coexist in (Minecraft) I didn't seem to mind him either way. I feel this could turn out the same for our staff (specifically admins) as well...

 

Because as it stands right now Mrloud15; I've had players tell me they no longer feel comfortable in the community because of how you took to your position immediately by moderating the forums. Following that up, I and other moderators on C felt quite discomforted when you demanded that we not be in modmode when not doing moderator things. But I feel that perhaps had it not been the first interactions you've had with these people, you may not have gotten so much backlash. The same can be said similarly with other staff/admins who are more impartial towards a single server or are inactive as well (so don't think I am bashing just you, I've gotten plenty of other complaints as well).

Do you think if Thrawn21 came on C right now  while 4 common people are role-playing something inappropriate in chat, and  one is creating half swastikas, that any of them would listen if she told them to stop? Without banning them, I doubt she would even invoke any intimidation. However she WOULD then take it back to the mod nominations that suchandsuchuserwhohadatonofsupport who is a common player who played along in the inappropriate role play for 1 message and once again a user is tarnished from the list. Even if you are watching from chatlogs... You don't know the person well enough to know that they were absolutely not intending harm when they said "oh baby" in response to the other roleplayer speaking in depth about the shape of a vagina or something stupid like that. 

 

But I suppose I am once again off track, my point is, a presence on the server is important for more than just interest in the game. It's important for leading the community and letting the community know you are actually there and actually still caring for the game they so happily bring their friends to nerd.nu to play together. While I am aware there are flaws with any type of requirement/rules that we would implement... Something should be done at least for player contentment. 

 

PLAY BLOCKS. 

[schererererer]

There is a visual level of interest that is represented by at least being on the servers once in a while. Players would like to know that the people in charge of their game are actually interested in said game.

I can agree with this, and would also like to add that since heads are the foremost representatives of the servers, visibility is key for contact and speedy resolution of the situations heads are most needed for. The job description of a head admin intimately deals with player relations and staff relations - for this to be successful and productive it really cannot be from a distance. To try to keep myself engaged and to prevent burnout, I've targeted trying to spend at least a third of my time in a given week just playing the game. I certainly don't expect or even think it wise that all the admins do this - sometimes you have a very limited time do to anything minecraft related, and adminy things will naturally have to take precedence.

Do you think if Thrawn21 came on C right now while 4 common people are role-playing something inappropriate in chat, and one is creating half swastikas, that any of them would listen if she told them to stop? Without banning them, I doubt she would even invoke any intimidation.

I'd expect players to listen to any mod with regards to chat moderation - regardless of how well they know them. I also think that "intimidation" is the wrong sentiment to employ here; respect for and adherence to the rules is all that is needed.

[TornadoHorse]

I think it's fairly clear to see that we have 3 inactive head admins; cyotie911, draykhar and thrawn21, from an outsiders perspective, at least. cyotie and dray have a combined playtime of about 5 hours on all of the servers combined. From what I've seen, both have been fairly unresponsive to discussion threads, ban appeals and other attempts of communication. None of them came to the most recent staff meeting, although I do appreciate that thrawn came along to the general meeting and took notes. Is this enough? It's great to have experience on the head admin team to be looking over the newer heads, however if they're not actually around to do this, what are they doing to deserve keeping their role as head of the community?

 

The tech admin activity on the servers doesn't actually bother me too much. As long as problems and issues are being brought up to them and dealt with promptly and to a good standard, I think that's enough, they're doing their job. If they want to be players also, that's their decision but if they're helping the servers with consistent tech work that's great. I always think we could do with more tech admins because the tech work is never going to run out. Because they're not frequently in game it's difficult to say whether they're active or not which is why having a server changelog would be a great way to see what work is being done by the server admins and techs.

 

Admin activity is a big concern, however I think most of the admins are fairly active right now. Although I can't say anything about the C admins since I don't frequent there, the new changes look very exciting from a player's perspective. Right now, I think we need to be more concerned about whether the admins are actually fulfilling their roles, not whether they're active or not. As was repeated many times in the meeting, we need to be constantly looking for who could be the next admin because the turnover rate (at least on S) is high and with more admins it's less likely they'll become burned out.

 

Looking down the nerd.nu/staff page our mod list is actually quite short, I think this accurately represents the size of our servers. From what I know, the majority of them are fairly active however occasional inactive clean-ups are great. I don't feel this is a pressing issue anymore. When we used to have tons of mods who hadn't been seen in months on the active list that's when we had a problem but we had a fairly big clean-up recently which dealt with that.

[SwitchViewz]

I agree with everything everyone has said above.

 

Something else I'd like to throw in to this discussion though is our massive list of moderators on the subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/about/moderators

 

There is a huge number of moderators that no longer play and/or are no longer on staff yet remain moderators on the subreddit. Would it be possible to do a clean up of moderators there?

[TornadoHorse]

I agree with everything everyone has said above.

 

Something else I'd like to throw in to this discussion though is our massive list of moderators on the subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/about/moderators

 

There is a huge number of moderators that no longer play and/or are no longer on staff yet remain moderators on the subreddit. Would it be possible to do a clean up of moderators there?

 

I found it very strange that recently chumazing made a modmail saying goodbye and complaining that she was removed, and then she was invited back to be a mod there despite not being staff on our servers for around 6 months afaik. 

[schererererer]

Ultimately, we had a miscommunication about the status of past server staff with respect to the subreddit mod list. We're continuing the discussion on that, but until it is resolved we're sticking to the status quo. There are quite a few past/inactive mods on the subreddit mod list, and has been that way for a long time.

[XkinOEC]

I'd expect players to listen to any mod with regards to chat moderation - regardless of how well they know them. I also think that "intimidation" is the wrong sentiment to employ here; respect for and adherence to the rules is all that is needed.

My point was more so that they wouldn't be aware that she is a head admin or even staff, players on C tend to be of a lesser maturity level, and do not know of the tab list, or /list, usually they ask who the admins are when they join or just ignore people they don't care to talk to. Frequenting moderators get far less of this backlash.

[CROCKODUCK]

I can't agree more on us needing active heads. Our community for the longest time relied and has needed head admins in game. Talking to a brand new player the other day I was floored that they didn't even know we had head admins, despite being on the server for almost 6 months. That to me is how you can tell their is a problem. Yes, indeed Thrawn, dray and cyotie are all inactive. So where do we go from here? Why do they keep a community leadership role when they are not interested in the game? If it was a month, I'd understand. But it's been at least 6, if not more since I've seen any of them.

[SwitchViewz]

Ultimately, we had a miscommunication about the status of past server staff with respect to the subreddit mod list. We're continuing the discussion on that, but until it is resolved we're sticking to the status quo. There are quite a few past/inactive mods on the subreddit mod list, and has been that way for a long time.

If I may ask, what is the point in keeping them on there? They are no longer on staff (some not for a long time) and they are not providing anything to the subreddit in terms of moderation (and some not even in content). It seems that they are just on there "to be on there". I see no point in keeping them on there. If they were helping out in moderation occasionally (such as flairing posts/removing spam) or commenting on things sent to ModMail then I see no need to remove them. It's like keeping someone's forum perms as a Moderator after they leave, they can still see all the discussions taking place and moderation that we do yet haven't been involved in a long time. What's the point of keeping them there?

[Mrloud15]

Closing and moving to the archives.