The whole toxic player/S issue (unopinionated edition)

[Darkelmo]

Ok, I know I have already started a thought provocative topic recently and that this may very well be locked simply because of it's title but I kinda want to establish something.

 

I may have all my history/facts wrong and you can feel free to politely correct me bellow, but this is my view of how the term 'toxic' kinda got out of hand.

 

Firstly, the term 'toxic player' wasn't even a big thing in the early nerd.nu days, in fact I barely recall it being said except for maybe being used to describe players who were legit just around to troll and ruin people's time. People who were no good for the server or the community by definition. 

 

In later times, when staff/player tension started to rise, one particular staff member used the term to describe a few players who they disapproved of in attitude and their opinions surrounding certain topics. This staff member at the time had been hit with a bombardment of stress due to their dedication to the server and was also undergoing a lot of scrutiny by disgruntled players and I believe other staff members. There were arguments surrounding the use of the this word to describe those people who were often involved in heated arguments and issues in mumble/irc etc etc. And these arguments and throwing of opinions were very common at this time (this is where a tiny bit of factionalism in the community started to occur) and what was worse was that players who were being considered 'toxic' often were in affiliation with players who had left the community on a bad note (like by being banned or having left due to other controversy). Now the idea of not being content with the staff team often coincided with outbursts, starting or commenting on controversial subeditor posts and the likes but the concerns that the people had against the staff were somewhat founded, and just the way they expressed a lot of their frustration about this happened to be destructive for both themselves and the staff team trying to handle the mess at the time, it effectively ruined communication.  

 

Originally there were arguments about the use of the word 'toxic' to describe players who were otherwise valuable to the community but didn't get along with and agree with everyone all the time. A lot of these kinds of people were S players, which isn't a surprise considering how the S server went into crisis and the general way a lot of the S players liked to express themselves as the result of the kind of environment they played on in survival (where everyone is pitted against each other and rivalries will occur). Which was a perfectly valid way of interaction (granted it was mostly kept to the survival servers) and often when these 'aggressive' players said things or bantered in certain ways it was somewhat more tolerated knowing that they were an S player (which aggravated more gentle mannered P players). Anyways, a lot of S players were starting to get pissed off, people started forming vastly different opinions about each other and in general those who started arguments with the P players or staff were normally seen as 'the toxic survival players'.

 

There were quite a few hateful (and still are) goodbye posts from players who were at one end or the other of the overall divide. There were players who kinda had an anti staff agenda or at least an agenda to be rid of the shitty things about staff. And these players were known by and were friends with a lot of other players in the community and while vocal, weren't just there to have a bitch about nothing and stir trouble. But these people landed themselves a toxic label anyway in the 'new' sense of the word. So when you go on about 'all these stupid S players' and those who seem to push the limits of staff members and the likes, just know that once upon a time we all got along kind of better than we all seem to now. There was always a kind of banter between S and P now but never have I seen so many players share hatred towards the other servers. A situation kind of let these things get out of hand and no single party or group is to blame. 

 

And while you may see it as a lesson as to how P and S don't mix and can't communicate in a crisis, just let it be a lesson that we can decide to listen to each other regardless of not liking what we're hearing (that means you grumpy people) or the way someone says it (that means you staff and care bears).

 

tl;dr if I see someone use that fucking word again, i'm gonna go play civcraft...

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyways <3 darkelmo xoxo peace out homies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darkelmo]

This is not an invitation to start a flame war, keep your comments civil if you want to comment (or just tell me im full of shit and don't know wtf im talking about) and you can talk about the experience from your perspective in a polite fashion.

[EeHee2000]

Spot on. I don't really have much to add to this other than that the 'toxic players' (myself included) and the staff that happen to disagree with them need to actually sort of take things into consideration when interpreting what their 'opposing' side says.

We've really dug ourselves quite a large hole here, comparable to the size of the hole that Ubisoft dug themselves in 2014, but I think overall we can all agree that we'd like to sit down and play games without arguments.
There really isn't a simple way to fix the divide between us, other than for both sides to start actually, y'know, listening to eachother; and now that the Survival server feels that (for the most part, at least) they have suitable admins, the process should become much easier over time.

Now, to give a rundown of why Survival players were getting pissed off in the first place;
Survival's population started to dwindle, because people got bored and moved on with life.  
Survival got admins that didn't PvP or even regularly play on the server, let alone casually interact with its playerbase.
Because of this, the SAdmins made some pretty bad choices over time, and Survival players noticed this - take into account that Survival players had been throwing suggestions at the admins non-stop for quite some time.
Survival players start getting really quite pissed off, because there was a constant pattern of admins not listening to players and admins then fucking up.
From there it just becomes a sour apple, with the situation degrading over time and with both sides refusing to reason with eachother.

It's been getting progressively worse for about 2-1.5 years, with a fucktonne of faults to both sides.

Edited March 3, 2015 by EeHee2000

[JKayani]

 I agree with Eehee. 

[tobylane]

In no particular order - idiot, imbecile, moron, stupid, mentally disabled, mentally challenged, moral defectives, feeble-minded, retard, special, lunatic, dumb. Here's a paper listing 250 https://www.academia.edu/5358888/250_labels_used_to_stigmatise_people_with_mental_illness.

 

I'm not calling you any of these. They are all words that were once the official description of a group of conditions, but people mis-used the term and we needed to find a new one. Low IQ isn't avoidable. Being toxic is avoidable. 

[Narissis]

Toxic players aren't "toxic" because they play on S; they're toxic because of their attitude.

 

I think we all understand that there are serious problems with the S server, as Eehee so kindly enumerated.

 

But the solution to those problems isn't to be confrontational with the staff, and certainly not with other players. Obviously, you need to make your concerns known, and it's frustrating as hell when they don't appear to have been taken to heart. I get that, and I know it's tough. But acting like a dick is only going to add fuel to the fire.

 

There are plenty of S players, I would say the majority of them, who are awesome people. I'll call out Unce as an example - true, he can be argumentative at times, but that's because he has strong opinions and he doesn't resort to personal attacks or flaming or 'toxic' behaviour to make them known; he's just very outspoken. That's fine. When he visits P to build Unce Haven, he respects the differences between the two servers and conducts himself according to the social conventions of P.

 

On the same token, there are players on P who could be described as "toxic". It's a description of attitude, not a summation of server stereotypes.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Narissis

[d3north]

The thing ive seen is that "toxic" is used as a way to disregard people and their opinions. I've been on both sides of the term, and it is never good when someone uses it because of the connotations it has in this community. It's been used and overused so much that the circlejerk around it is an entirely valid point of how it was used to create a "us-vs-them", the "toxic" and the "normals". 

[EeHee2000]

The 'toxic' insult is basically a really effective way of splitting the servers into two factions - the toxic and the non-toxic, which isn't helping anyone.
Let me get something straight - when you call someone toxic, you're furthering the divide between the two factions that now exist.
Stop using the fucking word as an end-all solution to everyone you disagree with.

[LadyRavenOwl]

 

You act like toxic has no definition, like it's just a made up word. It may have been used a lot at one time, but that doesn't remove it as a valid description for some people. Take the following chat logs of you in #RedditMC http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=rwvc2NUp I've literally never seen a staff member behave in this way but somehow they are equally at blame? If you can't agree that that was toxic, then I don't believe you can be reasoned with or have any type of meaningful discussion about improving this community.

 

 

If instead you had only written the following, everything would have been perfectly fine:

 

I find your experiences limited being that this is your one and only post on the forums.  Staff has never been beyond reproach with their actions and has made plenty of mistakes.  Granted, as staff members we do try to keep our actions in check and respectful, as well as lead by example.  That being the case, I see no reason for our staff team to be calling players names in public or even in a limited staff group conversation.  I've mentioned to the whole staff team and other players before that if you wouldn't say it to a player's face (and even if you would) then don't say it if it's rude.  There is just no reason to be disrespectful to other people here.

 

That all said, I am not quite sure where you got the impression that Eehee acted like toxic had no definition.  I'm not also sure what your intent is in targeting Eehee is other than trying to illicit a reaction that validates your point.  If you have an issue with the actions of a player, then there are better ways to address it than this.

[iamdarb]

Toxic players aren't "toxic" because they play on S; they're toxic because of their attitude.

 

Completely. There are some pretty nasty people on each of the servers. The amount of friendly players on S vastly outnumbers those who would be considered "toxic". Recently I've been able to peer into the chat of P and the amount of unfriendly people is quite amazing. They aren't the majority of the player-base, but there is definitely a good amount of players who would rather troll someone who is legitimately asking for help, rather than presenting them with assistance. Both cultures possess these kinds of people, no need to place more blame on one side or the other.

[Darkelmo]

Lock this one too, 

 

It turned into:

 

'This is why you shouldn't be using the word toxic so much'

 

Response: 'I don't like toxic people, stop defending bad behavior!... RAMBLE RAMBLE EEHEE!'

 

EEHEE: 'Shut up you stupid piece of neglected autism, face me like a real man!'

 

 

 

Derail, Derail, Derail

[SwitchViewz]

Closing on Darkelmo's request.