The "Toxic" Debacle

[EeHee2000]

Okay, we've already gone through two posts on this matter, let's stop derailing them. 
Can we pick up where we left off? 

[d3north]

Things We've Learned ( hopefully):

 

Toxic is a term that creates separation of groups, and is used to dismiss opinions.

It's overuse by both staff and player alike has created a circlejerk around it.

Some still use it, while being the very thing they vilify.

Being on either end of the word is unacceptable, and some stay by their predispositions towards those labeled by it, despite non-interaction with said players.

 

Let's try not to use this word as much as we have, while still understanding that some players do indeed fit the mold.

[Magnyus]

Unce is right, Toxic is a song written by Britney Spears, and released in 2003. No one like Britney Spears anymore and her sister got preggos at a young age and made Zoey 101 get cancelled so we don't like either of them.

 

A toxic person is one that negatively affects everyone around them. I have yet to meet a player that fits that description. Therefore we should stop using it in the context that we currently do.

 

Just because someone is an asshole consistently to you, doesn't mean that they don't deserve to play on these servers alongside the friends that they have. And if you don't agree with someone, have enough self control to not make it personal. You play with your friends and I play with mine, if we have different methods of enjoyment, then let us enjoy it. If it truly offends you then either ignore it or freaking ask us to respect you and stop. I swear if people could just fucking confront one another in a civilised manner instead of telling everyone else how much they dislike one another we wouldn't still be having this stupid discussion.

[tobylane]

For clarification, what is your idea of on topic for this?

 

For carrying on with the last topic, are we OK with calling it toxic for the time being, or will there be research papers written about the 250 words we used instead?

[jchance]

Ok,  REAL TALK YALL:

 

Toxic is not even in the current admin lexicon.   We don't bandy the word around in private conversations and honestly the only people I see calling others toxic are specific players to each other. That, and the players who other players have called toxic wear it like a badge of honor.

 

This is so obvious I feel stupid even typing it out, but here you go:

 

IF YOU DON'T WANT OTHER PLAYERS TO CALL YOU "TOXIC" THEN STOP DOING WHATEVER IT IS THAT MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE YOU ARE A SHITBAG.

 

I know, thats hard.  You actually have to examine yourself and wonder why people won't listen to you and think you're full of shit.  Its way easier to start a thread on the forums complaining about some perceived slight against you or your friends.   Sadly, starting these threads does nothing-  You're not going to change how the administration handles things because the people that start these threads are already so deep in to "Everybody thinks you're full of shit and just trying to start trouble" territory that nobody will listen to you anyway, and they're going to devolve in to a troll fest within hours.

 

Instead, you should focus on using some people skills in your interactions with others so they'll actually listen to anything you have to say and stop talking about some word they've labeled you with.

[Guest]

We don't bandy the word around in private conversations and honestly the only people I see calling others toxic are specific players to each other. That, and the players who other players have called toxic wear it like a badge of honor.

 

Jchance, I have a question- Who is acting like being called toxic is a badge of honor? While I can see where this may appear to be true in some cases, I disagree that all players who use toxic in a banter fashion like to act as though it's something they're proud about.

[EeHee2000]

You say we should stop doing whatever it is that makes us look like an ass, but then you see that yesterday I was called 'toxic' in IRC by someone who then used a brand new alt account to bring up logs of me doing nothing other than suggesting a new channel for Mumble, and to top it off my response to that particular post (which was so tame, might I add, that I didn't even screenshot it for fear of it being removed) was removed/hidden, yet the person stirring shit in that thread didn't have their post removed; not to mention that the thread was later locked due to them.
What?

No, sorry, that doesn't look like a possibility, given those circumstances.
Once people start using the word correctly, then yes, we'll be able to follow those instructions.
However, as I said, when I'm being censored no matter what I say, it's a no-can-do.

Edited March 5, 2015 by EeHee2000

[tobylane]

Eehee if you're talking about when you used the nickname oi_dickhead as evidence you can be tame but get called toxic, then there's so little you'll agree on with the staff. It may be better for you to just accept that and stop trying to 'correct' their idea of what is acceptable behaviour on the servers they are administrating. You're welcome to think you're right as well, but that doesn't stop the admins thinking they are right, and them acting on that.

[kittypuppet]

Instead, you should focus on using some people skills in your interactions with others so they'll actually listen to anything you have to say

 

I can probably name a couple people who have attempted this in the past and yet they get treated the same way when they come back. Don't act like all of the blame falls on them, part of it falls on the people pointing fingers because "there's no possible way that person has changed". It happens in real life and what happens? The person reverts back to the way they used to be. I would know, it happened to me, and it sucks. I was an outcast because of it, and despite my efforts of showing people I had changed at the time, I still had people pointing fingers at me calling me names. What happened to me? I reverted back to the way I was over time because I just gave up trying to prove them wrong.

 

So yes, while some people need an attitude check, it's the people pointing fingers who need to keep their mouth shut when they come back.

 

It's something that takes effort on both sides.

Edited March 4, 2015 by kittypuppet

[EeHee2000]

Tobylane,
The person in question wasn't staff, if you haven't picked up on that.
I'm not trying to correct anything, I'm voicing a fucking opinion, which I don't even seem to be allowed to do anymore thanks to people like yourself.
There's plenty I agree on with the current SAdmins, and they don't inaccurately use the word 'toxic' - why, a couple of them once very nearly fit into the seemingly very wide boundary of the word itself. Huh, funny that, I agree with people that don't overcompensate to prove other people wrong.

The username 'oi_dickhead' is not toxic, that much should be clear. If you can't accept that I can't do much about it.
However, charging into a thread pulling chat logs out of your arse about the smallest little tidbits that you and you alone take a small amount of offense to in order to prove someone else wrong out of spite due to a confrontation that happened well over two months ago - that, if anything, is toxic.
 

Edited March 4, 2015 by EeHee2000

[UNP]

IF YOU DON'T WANT OTHER PLAYERS TO CALL YOU "TOXIC" THEN STOP DOING WHATEVER IT IS THAT MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE YOU ARE A SHITBAG.

 

 

Devil's advocate - why don't they just get thicker skin? It's unreasonable to expect everyone to reconsider every little thing they say just in case some poor little special snowflake gets all "triggered" or "offended" by it. You can't make everyone happy, after all.

[cdmrtbeok]

IF YOU DON'T WANT OTHER PLAYERS TO CALL YOU "TOXIC" THEN STOP DOING WHATEVER IT IS THAT MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE YOU ARE A SHITBAG.

 

+1

 

I feel bad for coining toxic on these servers. I used it to describe an alcoholic 40 year old dude who was hitting on minors in my defense.

[Magnyus]

So Eehee likes to use colourful language, as do I, why should it fucking matter? Grow up, words are onky offensive you choose for them to be, this a community that is mostly comprised adults. Unless someone explicitly states that X person is a [insert whatever amazing insult you can think of right here] with the intent to hurt a person's feelings, then it shouldn't matter how many fucks are hurled into a conversation. Even then anyone with a smidgeon of maturity should be able to take an insult and brush it off.

Also, since when has it been a requirement to change our personalities? That is actually fucking stupid, and I despise that about a lot of players. I am completely within my own right to dislike who I want and treat them with the amount of respect I feel they deserve, that being said, as long as don't go out of my way to make that person's life a living hell then nothing should be done about it. I'll use Admanta as an example, he literally indentifies himself as an asshole, and he wears that badge with a ton of pride, and he's made the friends he's had because of it. Can he be a bit of dick at times? Fuck yeah, should he stop playing here and change his attitude simply because others don't appreciate it? Fuck no. FUCK NO. It's ridiculous to even think that that is a possibility.

What we need to realise is that we aren't clones of each other and we're never going to be, some of us are dicks, some of us are pushoverd, others are reclusive, and many are outspoken. That's the most normal thing. But seriously folks, this isn't school or a fucking daycare, stop playing snitch and tattle tale, the admins aren't going to (and neither should they be expected to) handle the problem that you should fucking handle yourself. If someone pisses you off, confront them, but don't go tearing down walls and making a mess when you do. Grow up.

[tobylane]

The username 'oi_dickhead' is not toxic, that much should be clear. If you can't accept that I can't do much about it.

 

I can't, but I don't need to. Now your turn.

 

Mag I don't believe Eehee was a problem when he first joined, I think I knew him on C as a reasonable person. Maybe he got 'mad' when he was first banned, maybe he just copied what others did for a laugh and went overboard. A ban is a ban and you're not living with it, you're trying to raise hell to prove you never did anything hellish.

[SwitchViewz]

Not related to the discussion, I will be removing any off-topic posts and posts that are not constructive to the topic at hand. I also removed the post that Eehee was referring to. Eehee: If you find a post that is out of place and your post gets removed please report it, we don't always notice. Reported posts will always get looked at by a bunch of us.

 

EDIT: I am referring to image macros/videos that offer nothing to the topic or are troll posts.

Edited March 4, 2015 by SwitchViewz

[Magnyus]

Now would be a perfect time to put what I said in my post to practice, clearly you don't like Eehee, yet you seem to go out of your way to comment on everything he does ands says, if you have a problem fucking tell him, not me.

(same goes for you Eehee)

Please get back to the topic, stop getting into a hissy fit about Eehee infamous antics. That's not what this is about.

Switchviewz, I would appreciate if you don't re.ove any of the posts in this thread just because you deem them off-topic. It's more counterproductive than helpful.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Magnyus

[Narissis]

Devil's advocate - why don't they just get thicker skin? It's unreasonable to expect everyone to reconsider every little thing they say just in case some poor little special snowflake gets all "triggered" or "offended" by it. You can't make everyone happy, after all.

 

Maybe I missed something here, but I don't think any of this has really been about "offensive" or "triggering" language. With the exception of the staunch rules against homophobia, this community is pretty lax about wording. Until someone goes too far, anyway, at which point the gentle nudges toward clanchats or PMs start to happen. :P

 

I'm pretty sure the main issue is people showing outright hostility and confrontationalism toward others, not people using potentially offensive language. Has more to do with what's being expressed than with the language used to express it.

[UNP]

Maybe I missed something here, but I don't think any of this has really been about "offensive" or "triggering" language. With the exception of the staunch rules against homophobia, this community is pretty lax about wording. Until someone goes too far, anyway, at which point the gentle nudges toward clanchats or PMs start to happen. :P

 

I'm pretty sure the main issue is people showing outright hostility and confrontationalism toward others, not people using potentially offensive language. Has more to do with what's being expressed than with the language used to express it.

 

It takes two people to have any kind of conversation, which means at least 50% of the responsibility rests on the person doing the listening. I feel like there's a group of players who, when confronted with someone they don't like, deliberately take what they're saying in the absolute worst possible context, whether or not it's clear that it wasn't intended to be taken as such - and then they use that as a platform to accuse the talker of being a troll, or a dick, or an asshole, or "toxic", or whatever the buzzword of the day is. Either that, or the whole /ignore <player> thing. Why the fuck do you need to announce it to everyone that you're ignoring someone? It's chest-puffing. It's actually MORE "toxic" than the initial issue that started this thread.

[Magnyus]

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I've seen several posts ignored merely because of how it was expressed. Darkelmo's topics are a good example, his thread became less about what he was actually talking about and more about how he was going about saying it.

[EeHee2000]

Just to clarify, tobylane, I'm not a 'problem', I'm someone with opinions that differ largely from yours. If you view that sort of person as a 'problem', I'd suggest you take your leave as those 'problems' don't have any solutions to them.

[UNP]

Just to clarify, tobylane, I'm not a 'problem', I'm someone with opinions that differ largely from yours. If you view that sort of person as a 'problem', I'd suggest you take your leave as those 'problems' don't have any solutions to them.

 

This right here needs to be applied more broadly. Tobylane's attitude is exactly what the problem with the nerd.nu servers are. If you've got an opinion that's contrary to the group, or even to an outspoken person, you're labelled as a "problem" or a "troll". I've never seen so many people fight so vigorously to maintain an echochamber - outside of reddit, of course, which is unsurprising given the link between the two groups.

[EeHee2000]

removed

Edited March 5, 2015 by EeHee2000

[tobylane]

I've seen several posts ignored merely because of how it was expressed. Darkelmo's topics are a good example, his thread became less about what he was actually talking about and more about how he was going about saying it.

 

Just to clarify, tobylane, I'm not a 'problem', I'm someone with opinions that differ largely from yours. If you view that sort of person as a 'problem', I'd suggest you take your leave as those 'problems' don't have any solutions to them.

 

Eehee you don't have the right to say what you want so say it in a nice way. If (perspective) you are being so unproductive in trying to get your point across we can assume you don't care about the point and just want to be angry. You're wasting time and relative dimension in space just to be angry, so that is why you get told to shut up, or get silenced. Once you are being productive, getting your point across in a non-antagonistic way, it'll be fruitful and you will be better for it.

[EeHee2000]

Eehee you don't have the right to say what you want so say it in a nice way. If (perspective) you are being so unproductive in trying to get your point across we can assume you don't care about the point and just want to be angry. You're wasting time and relative dimension in space just to be angry, so that is why you get told to shut up, or get silenced. Once you are being productive, getting your point across in a non-antagonistic way, it'll be fruitful and you will be better for it.

Yes, I do have the right to say what I want to say. Fuck you. 

How am I being unproductive? In what way does my supposed unproductivity mean that I don't care about the topic? How does this mean that I 'just want to be angry'? 

How am I wasting time? Where have I been told to shut up in this thread? How can I be productive like yourself? How am I being antagonistic? 

All these questions and I can't really think of many answers for them; enlighten me, but try to refrain from getting the topic locked. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by EeHee2000

[tobylane]

I'm talking to Eehee on mumble, and posting/summarising bits here with his permission.

 

I'll clarify, you don't have the right to say whatever you want however you want. You can't stick racial epithets between every other world because there is a hard rule against that. You can't call the entire staff the harem of Notch,because that's needlessly inflammatory, even though there isn't a rule against it.

 

It's the admins prerogative to create, keep and use the don't be a dick rule. You're disagreeing with that. You're wanting there to be a rule against rude names on IRC if we don't want you to use them in a rational conversation. It's basic decency. I'm unable to detail that any further because any time I've needed to it's either to an adult who knows what the real world expects of them (and can accept that the online world expects the same at times), or a young child who will come to learn it soon.

 

You're admitting non-specific guilt, but say that there's no one area that you did wrong/could change.

 

I'm wondering if I should bother continuing, if you want to have something to rebel against then you'll always find something. I'm not wording my side perfectly, but you're picking fault with words that are a perspective. I think you're being argumentative, you may not. But why bother disagreeing with a perspective?