Survival Rev28 Recap and Rev29 Forecast

[LadyRavenOwl]

Alright everyone, we’re a solid month into the rev and we know there are some things that have worked and some things that haven’t worked.  Based on what we’ve read, there are some things that people want changed and I would like to start getting communication in place so that we can get a new rev out to you all as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

First off, a couple announcements. Dizney07 and cab417 have decided to step down from Survival admin. We appreciate the time they've spent working with us and the community and are sad to see them go. We are gaining a few new moderators so look forward to welcoming zburdsal, C45Y, and DementedM0nkey to our staff team.

 

Moving forward, let’s generally outline Revision 28.  We introduced economy, landmarks, admin builds, player arenas, and the shop.  We removed then re-added horse locking, had a larger map, mob arena, and custom nether.  We also removed chest autolocking, removed pearlnerf, and dropped the XP plump.

Moving into Revision 29, we’re aiming for finality in PvP, more PvP incentives, and more efficient moderating for players and staff.

 

Things we’re going to keep:

• Economy (though revamped with new aspects including auction etc)
• Lottery
• Mob Arena
• Horse locking (though this will be possibly revamped)
• Landmarks
• Player Arena
• The Shop (with customizable spaces)
• Chests will not auto lock
• Reduced XP

 

Things that will for sure be changing:

• Smaller map
• Back to normal nether (mostly, will keep obsidian spikes if possible)
• Bringing back pearl cooldown
• Removing strength II (due to all the issues with it)
• Spawn will be built as a community contest (see more information at the bottom of this post)
• Beds will no longer set your spawn point
• More PvP incentive through Economy
• Weekly SAL fights occurring on different days of the week (points from this revision will be carrying over to next revision)
• Bulletin board at spawn for player ads
• 100-150 block square buffer zone from spawn to prevent chunks constantly loaded
• Community farm inside spawn for new players
• The way shops are done

 

Things that we are considering:

• Unsafe buckets for sale in the shop (griefing with them will be a bannable offense)
• The possibility to raid chests via lock picking or having a finite amount of chests that are able to be locked
• Buyable XP from the server shop

 

There are a few other items that we are considering adding but need more discussion.  For launch date, we are aiming to have Revision 29 ready to launch the first weekend of June.  This would give us a solid 8 week current rev and a little less than a month to finish our launch tasks.

 

As previously mentioned, spawn will be built by the community and then there will be a community vote for the best spawn.  I will be liasoning with our Event Admin to set that up in a Creative build world.  Details for the spawn contest will be posted by Wednesday and the contest beginning Friday.  SAL will be sometime this Saturday.

If there is something that you are dying to have added into Economy or you think you have the best idea when it comes to raiding chests, PvP incentive, etc. please do not hesitate to post here or message rtr, MrG, and I in a group message on the forums.

[sshadow04]

Instead of pearl cool-down, have you explored the option of making pearls deal increased damage? I hated when we had pearl cool-down, and feel that just increasing the damage on them could have the same effect to stop people pearling too much.

[tobylane]

Instead of pearl cool-down, have you explored the option of making pearls deal increased damage? I hated when we had pearl cool-down, and feel that just increasing the damage on them could have the same effect to stop people pearling too much.

I like this, and I'd include ignoring the reduction from feather falling.

 

I dislike the bed and buyable xp changes. Could you explain the need for these?

 

Spawn farm, bulletin board and buffer zone are very good. Could this include player made iron grinders?

 

I haven't seen any arena activity ingame, what times are they normally at and how much more can this vary?

[nickeynickey123]

Things that we are considering:

• The possibility to raid chests via lock picking or having a finite amount of chests that are able to be locked

 

Pretty against this. If there's already a problem with people not wanting to fight in arenas to lose their armour, what exactly is the incentive to mine and gather as much materials as possible if there's a possibility that they could lose a lot more than just their armour? Where is the line drawn between "Survival" and "Chaos"? Theoretically, if we're only going to be able to lock... let's say, 2 chests, what exactly is going to propel the player to collect more materials? Of this could be argued with "hiding your chests" better, but then I could very easily see everyone migrating underground, and fewer incentives than before to get that first plot on the main road. Sure it's "fun to raid people's chests", but at what cost? Personally, I like the idea of people owning plots and making bases right on the road, and if we were to implement this grief-able chest idea, I could very easily see everyone hiding away, and an overall decrease in PvP due to the now more widely dispersed players. I dunno, just my two cents.

[sshadow04]

Also, what is "unsafe buckets"

[Guest Former Staff]

Also, what is "unsafe buckets"

 

They allow flowing water / lava.

[Lazee_Boy]

Instead of pearl cool-down, have you explored the option of making pearls deal increased damage? I hated when we had pearl cool-down, and feel that just increasing the damage on them could have the same effect to stop people pearling too much.

Pearls dealing increased damage and ignoring feather falling is a horrible idea. They are an integral part of many tactics in PvP and having them deal 2 1/2 hearts in full prot is a recipe for disaster. Also increased pearl damage won't stop people from pearling too much because health potions exist. If increased damage was a better solution then the bigger Minecraft PvP communities would have dropped cooldown and picked up on it already.

[tobylane]

Pearls dealing increased damage and ignoring feather falling is a horrible idea. They are an integral part of many tactics in PvP and having them deal 2 1/2 hearts in full prot is a recipe for disaster. Also increased pearl damage won't stop people from pearling too much because health potions exist. If increased damage was a better solution then the bigger Minecraft PvP communities would have dropped cooldown and picked up on it already.

 

There's a lot of "It was better in the old days" people here in the forums. I'm not one of them, I just suggested something that allows people to battle a little cheaper. You are correct about health potions though, for the same two reasons they could be banned.

[JKayani]

I like the idea of no beds since people will want to build closer to spawn. Also due to this post about the deadline of survival and the start of Revision 29, I feel as if the player count currently has decreased dramatically. There seems to be really no point to playing now; and the SAL last weekend was a failure since nobody showed up. So my idea is to start chaos relatively soon; so we can get atleast some more players back with the diamond pvp kits and invis tnt kits. 

[JKayani]

Also assuming you were to implement lock picking; would you mean bringing back the citadel plugin? And how exactly would this "lock picking" work without the citadel plugin?

[Wozdaka]

Please make villagers protected. IMHO they can be used in builds and killing them off is griefing the build. It takes a lot of effort to find, transport and breed them.

I also think the key need to increase the population of S will increase PvP. If you have more people you get more PvP. People don't like it when they lose items. So we have locked chests but if you die you lose everything on you. It is IMHO a reason people avoid S or do not stay. They get killed/camped to a point they do not see the point. If you want to retain people to be targets or fight back in PvP or participate in arenas then let them keep their inventory when killed by players.

[Lazee_Boy]

There's a lot of "It was better in the old days" people here in the forums. I'm not one of them, I just suggested something that allows people to battle a little cheaper. You are correct about health potions though, for the same two reasons they could be banned.

Are you suggesting we ban health pots or ender pearls? Because both would be a terrible idea. Also, about the "better in the old days," in the "old days" there was no pearl cooldown, and it sucked (see: BraydenH).

Edited May 20, 2015 by Lazee_Boy

[tobylane]

Are you suggesting we ban health pots or ender pearls? Because both would be a terrible idea. Also, about the "better in the old days," in the "old days" there was no pearl cooldown, and it sucked (see: BraydenH).

 

There have been requests to go back to beta, to remove all or some of the things introduced since. I find that an overreaction, so I was suggesting a few things that would make things cheaper. Making things cheaper/quicker/easier seems to be a common theme in the successful changes - see enchantism.

[JKayani]

Also why is this revision so short? The rev started early April and is ending around the first second of June. Seems a bit short compared to previous revisions. 

[tobylane]

Also why is this revision so short? The rev started early April and is ending around the first second of June. Seems a bit short compared to previous revisions. 

 

A very common request is for shorter revisions. I believe six weeks was a target.

[c45y]

Also why is this revision so short? The rev started early April and is ending around the first second of June. Seems a bit short compared to previous revisions. 

 

Probably to do with a new admin team trying new things as well, now that they have more confidence in creating and launching a server as well as feedback to implement. I would be interested to hear if future revisions are planned to be as short however

[unce]

Please make villagers protected. IMHO they can be used in builds and killing them off is griefing the build. It takes a lot of effort to find, transport and breed them.

I also think the key need to increase the population of S will increase PvP. If you have more people you get more PvP. People don't like it when they lose items. So we have locked chests but if you die you lose everything on you. It is IMHO a reason people avoid S or do not stay. They get killed/camped to a point they do not see the point. If you want to retain people to be targets or fight back in PvP or participate in arenas then let them keep their inventory when killed by players.

 

Eh, villagers are a resource that can give you an advantage in PvP (unlimited armor, mats, etc). You should have to protect these resources yourself to keep this advantage. Same should apply to animals and horses, hide them or lose them.

[PointyOintment]

I would like to offer a non-PvPer's perspective. The impression I get is that the Survival server is geared for people who play primarily to fight each other, but I know I'm far from the only person who plays on S primarily for non-PvP activities. You may think "you should play on the PvE server then", but that's not the same—I like having the risk of being attacked by other players. Anyway:

 

Moving into Revision 29, we’re aiming for finality in PvP

What's finality?

 

Things we’re going to keep:

• Economy (though revamped with new aspects including auction etc)
• Lottery
• Mob Arena
• Horse locking (though this will be possibly revamped)
• Landmarks
• Player Arena
• The Shop (with customizable spaces)
• Chests will not auto lock
• Reduced XP

That's all fine by me.

 

Things that will for sure be changing:

• Smaller map
• Back to normal nether (mostly, will keep obsidian spikes if possible)
• Bringing back pearl cooldown
• Removing strength II (due to all the issues with it)
• Spawn will be built as a community contest (see more information at the bottom of this post)
• Beds will no longer set your spawn point
• More PvP incentive through Economy
• Weekly SAL fights occurring on different days of the week (points from this revision will be carrying over to next revision)
• Bulletin board at spawn for player ads
• 100-150 block square buffer zone from spawn to prevent chunks constantly loaded
• Community farm inside spawn for new players
• The way shops are done

Smaller map: How small? I thought 5000 square (this rev) was, while not too small, a bit smaller than I expected it to be.

Pearl cooldown: I like this. Without cooldown, lag has caused me to accidentally spam pearls many times, causing me at least one death and multiple near-deaths so far. The suggested alternative, increased pearl damage, would just make this problem worse, and I'd give up on pearls entirely. (I don't use them in SSP; I only use them on the server because they're practically free.) Non-PvP perspective, remember. Maybe it could be set up so that pearl rules change when a player is in combat?

No spawning at beds: What's the point of beds then? I don't want to have to fight my way back home from spawn in the middle of the night with no gear.

Buffer zone: IDK what the effect of this is.

Things that we are considering:

• Unsafe buckets for sale in the shop (griefing with them will be a bannable offense)
• The possibility to raid chests via lock picking or having a finite amount of chests that are able to be locked
• Buyable XP from the server shop

Unsafe buckets: I like this. In SSP I often use water to climb up and down in caves, and I've missed this ability while playing on the server. I'd prefer just one kind of bucket with

/flow on

/flow off

commands, but unsafe buckets work too.

Lockpicking/lock limit: I don't think this is a good idea, for the reasons already discussed, but I'm personally OK with it. It would make it more like chaos. I had more fun (though accomplished much less) during the chaos between Revs 27 & 28 than in either Rev 27 or Rev 28. I lived pretty close to spawn but, once I found a good hiding place, only lost my stuff when someone X-rayed their way to my chests.

Buyable XP: I don't think this is a problem when we have an end grinder. Also, I find it amusing that the word 'buyable' is actually in the dictionary.

 

Also due to this post about the deadline of survival and the start of Revision 29, I feel as if the player count currently has decreased dramatically. There seems to be really no point to playing now

Yep. I've pretty much given up on my projects this rev. I started them thinking it would last longer than two months; there's no point in attempting to complete them now.

 

A very common request is for shorter revisions. I believe six weeks was a target.

If revisions are going to be shorter in the future, I just won't play on this server anymore. I don't expect that to affect plans at all; I doubt many people, let alone any admins, care whether I play here or not. But it's just not fun for me if the revisions are as short as this one. But consider that for every person who raises an issue, there are usually several who decide it's not worth it to complain and just leave.

P.S. This is probably already well known, but this forum's WYSIWYG editor generates the worst code I've ever seen. I spent more time cleaning it up than actually writing my thoughts. Edit: Editing the post messes up the code too. >_<

Edited May 28, 2015 by PointyOintment

[c45y]

If revisions are going to be shorter in the future, I just won't play on this server anymore. I don't expect that to affect plans at all; I doubt many people, let alone any admins, care whether I play here or not. But it's just not fun for me if the revisions are as short as this one. But consider that for every person who raises an issue, there are usually several who decide it's not worth it to complain and just leave.

 

They may not miss you, but they will sure miss a lot of other people who feel the same, myself included. I'm not sure where toby pulled the 6 week figure from but I doubt anyone here thinks that is actually realistic.

[PointyOintment]

Oh, another thing: Blood moon. Will it be returning in Rev 29? In Rev 28 people complained that it increased the danger for no benefit, and so it was announced that monster hunting during blood moons would be incentivized, but then blood moons disappeared altogether (and I've found no explanation of that since).

And an addition to my previous post, because I don't want to edit it and have the editor mess up the code again:

Smaller map: How small? I thought 5000 square (this rev) was, while not too small, a bit smaller than I expected it to be.

It was announced at the beginning that it would expand to 7000 square and maybe even 10000 square (which I would have been quite happy about) if there was sufficient population/activity. Now the next rev is going in the direction of a smaller world. The only reason I've heard for this change is to encourage more PvP; are there any other reasons?

[c45y]

Now the next rev is going in the direction of a smaller world. The only reason I've heard for this change is to encourage more PvP; are there any other reasons?

 

Not just to encourage pvp, but to just centralize everything. We don't have the numbers for a massive map, with everyone so spread out the server just feels empty. A smaller map and removing beds will force people to maintain bases closer to spawn, rather then disappearing to the edge of the map and never being seen again

 

I'm a hermit, I don't always want to be found when I'm building, but I think the move is for the best.

[tobylane]

 

 

They may not miss you, but they will sure miss a lot of other people who feel the same, myself included. I'm not sure where toby pulled the 6 week figure from but I doubt anyone here thinks that is actually realistic.

 

 

I can't remember where it came from, just that it was popular at the time. I see that either you weren't in agreement at the time or have changed your mind. What do you want?

 

Everyone who leaves will be missed equally. No one group is more important than another - thats why we invited the civcraft people and thats why it was unfortunate we didn't want to continue the sort of server they wanted.

[c45y]

I can't remember where it came from, just that it was popular at the time. I see that either you weren't in agreement at the time or have changed your mind. What do you want?

 

Everyone who leaves will be missed equally. No one group is more important than another - thats why we invited the civcraft people and thats why it was unfortunate we didn't want to continue the sort of server they wanted.

 

We're constantly catering to two different groups of people, I want 3-4 month revisions with no beds but otherwise minimal change from generic minecraft. I completely understand that is not what a lot of other people want.

 

We either need to give PvE more pvp, where it is simply a toggle between allowed or disallowed per person, or we need to find something to define S and build upon it. As it stands nearly everything S once had is now found on PvE with the exception of globally enabled PvP. If we were to give all the "PvE with PvP enabled" people a new home on P it could free up S to become whatever it is everyone else is asking for?

 

As for the duration, I don't quite recall where it came from either, simply that it was mentioned and shot down as far as I recall. Bias memory probably.