Death due to Moderators.

[Rokku117]

The other day I was mining in the nether and right as I was going to head back to my base, I found myself trapped in an infinite fall glitch. I believe I did everything I could to try and get myself out of the hole (re-logging, breaking blocks etc.), but alas I was stuck.  I did the next logical thing a contacted a moderator that happened to be online.  They promptly responded and reviewed my situation.  They deemed it necessary to teleport me out of the block, as soon they teleported me, I died. The game said that i had fallen from a high place. I then asked said moderator if they could teleport me back to my spot, they replied it is against the rules to teleport due to a glitch.  To which I responded that they had teleported me out of a glitch which then killed me.  I found it very circular in the discussion of if they could tp or not.  I spent several minutes trying to get back to where I had died to no avail. 

 

I find this ridiculous that moderators cannot teleport a player back to where they died if it is the moderator's fault that said player died. I have heard that some moderators will teleport, but there should be some sort of actual rule to add continuity to this server.

 

Thus, I vote for a change in procedure: If a moderator kills a player with mod power, the player should be returned to where they died(Provided its not a hostile area i.e. lava)

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rokku117

[Aypop]

I might be posting a list of specific things you can modreq on each server for later this week to address these kinds of cases. I completely agree that dying due to an out-of-game experience like moderator tools entitles you to some compensation.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Aypop

[CROCKODUCK]

This seems like one of those special case policies.  I don't know exactly what I would do in this case.  I agree I would probably not teleport because of how strictly we are told that teleport is one time use only.  Suppose you're going to need an admin comment on this.  Also I assume this was on P?

[Guest]

I've been at the both ends of this. I've died a couple times after being teleported from an infinite fall and I've killed a person when teleporting them. I don't see it as the moderator would be the one killing you. You're dying because of fall damage, and it's not about where or how you're teleported. You're dying because the game glitched and from my POV this falls under the same issue as any game glitches where you are not refunded if you happen to die to game bugs or server issues. I understand you're not asking for refund for items, but teleporting you back to the location, but I don't really see a reason for it. You died due to the game.

[TornadoHorse]

This seems like one of those special case policies.  I don't know exactly what I would do in this case.  I agree I would probably not teleport because of how strictly we are told that teleport is one time use only.  Suppose you're going to need an admin comment on this.  Also I assume this was on P?

 

I think I would teleport them back, I believe I have done so before a couple of revisions ago. The way I see it, it was directly the moderators fault for their death as it was the original teleport that killed them, so teleporting them back so their items aren't lost isn't really abuse or anything, the player isn't gaining an unfair advantage from it. I don't play on P too much so I'm not as clear on the policies like you may be, but the player wouldn't have died if the moderator hadn't made the original teleport, so I think it's only fair to then bring the player back. 

[barneygale]

It's policy to refund players for moderator mistakes. The moderator who tp'd you made a mistake. If you contact a server admin they'll refund you.

[Guest]

It's policy to refund players for moderator mistakes. The moderator who tp'd you made a mistake. If you contact a server admin they'll refund you.

 

How is it the moderator's mistake? The death is not preventable there other than leaving them there glitching.

[dizney07]

I probably would have teleported you back as well, if there was really no way you could have prevented the death. I'm not saying it's the moderators fault, I don't think it's anyones fault. But like Torn said, there's no advantage to being teleported back to where the player was glitch killed, so why wouldn't you?

[Guest]

I probably would have teleported you back as well, if there was really no way you could have prevented the death. I'm not saying it's the moderators fault, I don't think it's anyones fault. But like Torn said, there's no advantage to being teleported back to where the player was glitch killed, so why wouldn't you?

 

If it's made as a policy, I have nothing against it. 

[dizney07]

If it's made as a policy, I have nothing against it. 

 

Sometimes as a moderator, you have to do what's right for the player in my opinion. It's a special case that's probably not listed in the rules (because let's be honest, do we really need to add another rule to the already long list)? If anything that's putting a player more at a disadvantage than an advantage. 

 

Of course this is my opinion based on what I would do on S. As many know, I'm not a major P player so I'm not always aware of the procedures.

[Rokku117]

I probably would have teleported you back as well, if there was really no way you could have prevented the death. I'm not saying it's the moderators fault, I don't think it's anyones fault. But like Torn said, there's no advantage to being teleported back to where the player was glitch killed, so why wouldn't you?

 

But there is an advantage to being tp'd back/near where the player died as it would allow them to pick up drops, unless, of course they had fallen in lava. In my case I had died and all my items had dropped and the moderator refused to tp back, even though I could have picked up all of my items.

 

 

How is it the moderator's mistake? The death is not preventable there other than leaving them there glitching.

 

If I am not mistaken, I dont believe you take fall damage after being teleported.  So it would be a totally avoidable death except for the fact that a player would get stuck in the glitch.

 

 

It's policy to refund players for moderator mistakes. The moderator who tp'd you made a mistake. If you contact a server admin they'll refund you.

As far as I know they don't do that, and it technically is not moderator mistake, it is the glitch killing you.

[barneygale]

I don't think I've taken fall damage from teleporting to the ground. Is that a thing?

[schererererer]

I thought this bug was fixed a while ago but it's apparently rearing its ugly head again - getting stuck in an infinite fall in a block can cause you to "accumulate" falling distance. Hitting the ground after a tp would then trigger the damage from falling for such a long time - I've experienced this 5-10 times, mostly in the distant past. With this case we technically should treat it the same as if you glitched into a block and suffocated - tp'ing a player back to their death point from a glitch would squarely fall under mods arbitrarily stretching the rules and their settled interpretation.

On the other hand, if the mod accidentally tp'd you 50 blocks into the air and that caused your death, that should immediately be resolved with a tp back to the death point.

[Trooprm32]

I thought this bug was fixed a while ago but it's apparently rearing its ugly head again - getting stuck in an infinite fall in a block can cause you to "accumulate" falling distance. Hitting the ground after a tp would then trigger the damage from falling for such a long time - I've experienced this 5-10 times, mostly in the distant past. With this case we technically should treat it the same as if you glitched into a block and suffocated - tp'ing a player back to their death point from a glitch would squarely fall under mods arbitrarily stretching the rules and their settled interpretation.

On the other hand, if the mod accidentally tp'd you 50 blocks into the air and that caused your death, that should immediately be resolved with a tp back to the death point.

No matter your y level when teleporting a player, they will be teleported down to the nearest solid block. So unless we are teleporting them over the void or in lava; it really isn't our fault.

[Rokku117]

No matter your y level when teleporting a player, they will be teleported down to the nearest solid block. So unless we are teleporting them over the void or in lava; it really isn't our fault.

I'm not saying it is the mods fault. I'm saying we need to clearly define what happens when something like this occurs. I used my experience as an example of what happens and why we need better clarification.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rokku117

[barneygale]

What are the other ways to unstick players? give em temporary region access?

[Guest]

What are the other ways to unstick players? give em temporary region access?

 

They don't die when you teleport them from a place where they are unable to get out due to regions. Those players are all alive and well. The issue is when you get stuck in a block when you're mining or shoveling too fast or w/e and you're stuck in that block, eternally falling. Nothing to do with regions.

[Rokku117]

I thought this bug was fixed a while ago but it's apparently rearing its ugly head again - getting stuck in an infinite fall in a block can cause you to "accumulate" falling distance. Hitting the ground after a tp would then trigger the damage from falling for such a long time - I've experienced this 5-10 times, mostly in the distant past. With this case we technically should treat it the same as if you glitched into a block and suffocated - tp'ing a player back to their death point from a glitch would squarely fall under mods arbitrarily stretching the rules and their settled interpretation.

On the other hand, if the mod accidentally tp'd you 50 blocks into the air and that caused your death, that should immediately be resolved with a tp back to the death point.

Can we add something more specific to moderator protocol/rules so that this does not happen? From what I have heard from staff and other playets, this happens often enough it should warrant some sort of change.

[schererererer]

Can we add something more specific to moderator protocol/rules so that this does not happen? From what I have heard from staff and other playets, this happens often enough it should warrant some sort of change.

Imo, mod protocol is specific enough in that we don't refund on deaths caused by bugs or lag. I'll bring this up with the padmins for review in our discussion thread of doom though.

[Rokku117]

Imo, mod protocol is specific enough in that we don't refund on deaths caused by bugs or lag. I'll bring this up with the padmins for review in our discussion thread of doom though.

 

But you would not have to refund anything if the moderator would tp the player who died back to the spot that they died so that the player could pick up their stuff.

[dizney07]

Imo, mod protocol is specific enough in that we don't refund on deaths caused by bugs or lag. I'll bring this up with the padmins for review in our discussion thread of doom though.

 

I disagree. I know it's not the mods fault for the death, but if I was killed because I was "digging to fast" I would be pretty upset depending on the items I lost. For example, if I lost a fortune 3 pick I would be pretty upset if it was my only one, forcing me to go wait in line at the end grinder and try and reacquire an item that I shouldn't have lost in the first place. If they died over lava or something of the sort than that's different, but being tp'd out of being stuck (since there isn't another way out) and then dying because of built up fall damage would be pretty annoying. I don't think it would be the mod or players fault, but the games fault. 

[TheRandomnatrix]

 

I'm not saying it is the mods fault.

Then don't say it is...

I find this ridiculous that moderators cannot teleport a player back to where they died if it is the moderator's fault that said player died. I have heard that some moderators will teleport, but there should be some sort of actual rule to add continuity to this server.

 

Thus, I vote for a change in procedure: If a moderator kills a player with mod power, the player should be returned to where they died(Provided its not a hostile area i.e. lava)

I have been at the end of this glitch as well as seeing it happen to others. It's not the moderator's fault. Even if you somehow escaped the block you'd have massive amounts of accumulated fall damage.

 

In the past I usually tp the player back, since it's verifiable that it's their stuff and the staff is a witness to the bug in question. However, I do respect how others could see it as stretching moderator powers, since we usually don't refund items lost to server issues, refunding in this case being teleporting them back.

 

As scher said, the padmins can discuss this and eventually get a decision on it.

[Rokku117]

Then don't say it is...

I have been at the end of this glitch as well as seeing it happen to others. It's not the moderator's fault. Even if you somehow escaped the block you'd have massive amounts of accumulated fall damage.

In the past I usually tp the player back, since it's verifiable that it's their stuff and the staff is a witness to the bug in question. However, I do respect how others could see it as stretching moderator powers, since we usually don't refund items lost to server issues, refunding in this case being teleporting them back.

As scher said, the padmins can discuss this and eventually get a decision on it.

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. I meant it as the moderator issuing the command that causes the glitch to kill the player.

[SkrapssparkS]

Honestly, I'd have tp'd him back to the location. There is no sure way of telling if you would have accumulated a large amount of fall damage if you had managed to get out of the glitch without a mod's help so without being 100% sure I'd tp them back to the location they died. I can see why the mod might not have done so as it's worrying when you get to this grey area of the rules where you aren't entirely sure what to do, but just think if they got out of it normally are you 100% sure they would have died, if not teleport them back, if you are 100% sure i.e. you have experienced this glitch and have heard about it enough to know there is no way out of it then don't. But really it's not meant to be part of minecraft if it's a glitch so I think the rule of not getting tp'd back when you die from glitches is wrong. Again that is a grey area but it's just my opinion. 

[barneygale]

iirc the "don't refund items lost due to game glitches" rule exists it's impossible to prove what people lost if they reported after the fact.

but if I saw a player accidentally glitch and die, I'd probably TP em back. What's the harm?