Rules gone to hell

[CROCKODUCK]

So time to clarify and bring some light to some issues.

First off, back in the good old days does anyone remember how long it took to remove builds on PvE even by region owners? A maximum of 2 weeks normally. Well now it's been changed to an admin can complete there own admin requests and destroy builds Willy nilly. Comforting? I thought so too.

Private logs: here we go again with these but why is this the main form of how admins spy on us? Obviously there's no chain of command so any admin anytime can simply see who's talking to who about what.

I'm opening this up to everyone but I'm curious who is in favor that we simply start letting admins complete their own modreqs for removing builds? Message me if you want specifics but trust me this has happened before, recently and will happen again.

[c45y]

It used to take a lot less time, but the rules about protection were also a lot simpler. It is the rules that need to be reviewed, the removal request duration is just a symptom of the larger problem.

 

Private logs is exactly how it has always has been, possibly more public now I guess, this isn't a democracy and you have no right to privacy ( I'm not sure where everyone gets the idea they do )

 

There is no reason admins shouldn't be able to complete their own requests ( by extension all staff as well ) - they are in a position of trust, maybe its time to actually trust them just to do their job.

 

This is a pointless topic

[CROCKODUCK]

No it's not pointless. This happened this week and the admins have said it's not a big deal. I wanted some concrete rules established around admins removing builds because they don't like it.

[CROCKODUCK]

Perhaps I made it a bit confusing by throwing in the private messages issue. Bottom line is we need an amount of time someone should be allowed to remove their build before P admins do it. Not admins completing their own requests because they're upset. We trust these people with our money to keep the game running smoothly, well that doesn't work when any admin on a bender can destroy an entire build with no warning to the owner and for it to be allowed.

[c45y]

You seem confused, you don't pay to play here, the money you donate goes towards the servers, not specific admin teams. It is nice to know nerd as a whole will use the money wisely, but as someone who has also donated considerable funds here over time, I have no expectation that I will get what I want because I gave money.

 

Admins are admins, they are placed in a position of trust, its like complaining the government can take your land to build a freeway. It is their job to make the server as a whole an enjoyable experience for as many people as possible, if that means you as an individual might have to make concessions for that to happen, so be it.

 

Setting hard limits on every little part of the rules or actions admins take just winds up in infinite red tape that prevents action being taken, if anything remove all the rules and just trust that the admins are acting with the server in their best interests.

Edited June 2, 2016 by c45y

[Mumberthrax]

I do not know the context which brought this discussion up, but as far as I am aware the rules for PvE have stated that the pve server admins have discretion to remove basically any build they want. http://www.redditpublic.com/wiki/Rules#PVE

 

 

• Scaffolding, 1x1 towers, and other temporary builds should be removed as soon as no longer needed. Such structures may be removed by moderators at any time.
   
• Be respectful of the map and do not mar the experience or view for other players. Certain "very low quality" structures including but not limited to cobble/netherrack boxes, floating skyrails, and abandoned incomplete builds may be removed if they significantly impact the surrounding area in a negative way. Such removal will be done entirely at the discretion of the server admins.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Mumberthrax

[CROCKODUCK]

I understand that rule, it mentions discretion but for builds that took considerable time and effort it's crazy to think there is no limit to "you have 20 days to remove your build". Also it mentions p admins only which doesn't seem to hold true from my observations. All we need is something to say "2 weeks you remove your build or the p admins will"

[torteela]

i honestly have no idea what you're saying can you explain what happened pls

[Guest]

Making vague accusations hardly is the way to go. If there is an actual issue, you should bring it up in a proper manner. This is only causing drama and making people wonder and rumours start. If an admin truly is abusing their power, first go to the head admins and if you don't get a satisfactory response, then come forth with the hard facts and evidence.

 

What it comes to a two week waiting time -- what is the need for that if the case is clear? There's no reason to delay action, if the action is rightful. If you think it wasn't a rightful act then proceed as said.

[CROCKODUCK]

Making vague accusations hardly is the way to go. If there is an actual issue, you should bring it up in a proper manner. This is only causing drama and making people wonder and rumours start. If an admin truly is abusing their power, first go to the head admins and if you don't get a satisfactory response, then come forth with the hard facts and evidence.

What it comes to a two week waiting time -- what is the need for that if the case is clear? There's no reason to delay action, if the action is rightful. If you think it wasn't a rightful act then proceed as said.

I know you haven't been here long but the instant you throw someone's name out on the mix the heads will delete this topic so I'm not taking that approach. I have evidence if you care to see.

Why wait? Because if you get permission from one region owner to build and then another wants to remove it what's stopping them? That was exactly the case here. Plus the abuse of power. I wouldn't make these accusations out of thin air, and while I'm pretty angry this shit still happens, it would be nice if we could establish a single rule for a certain time period allowed. Also maybe add a written rule that admins can't complete their own admin requests as apparently no one cares if they do or don't.

[tobylane]

Don't think that what you are doing is entirely permitted just because you aren't naming people.

 

Other than the timing was there anything in the actions that gave it away as admin a not waiting for admin b to do the modreq for admin a?

[Guest]

I know you haven't been here long but the instant you throw someone's name out on the mix the heads will delete this topic so I'm not taking that approach. I have evidence if you care to see.

Why wait? Because if you get permission from one region owner to build and then another wants to remove it what's stopping them? That was exactly the case here. Plus the abuse of power. I wouldn't make these accusations out of thin air, and while I'm pretty angry this shit still happens, it would be nice if we could establish a single rule for a certain time period allowed. Also maybe add a written rule that admins can't complete their own admin requests as apparently no one cares if they do or don't.

 

How long I've been on the servers has nothing to do with this and you using a two year server experience as a weapon against my comment tells its own tale, giving the impression you're trying to divide the community based on how long people have been around. This should not be a thing and has no relevance here.

 

Throwing vague accusations helps nothing. Putting blame and naming names blindly helps nothing. You're causing drama, not trying to find a solution.

 

If you're suggesting a rule change, then you can always make a constructive post of the changes you think would be beneficial for the servers. The community may or may not agree. Having a two weeks wait time would in my opinion be very detrimental to town development and personally I wouldn't support the idea. In my understanding a player is asked to remove stuff that's not supposed to be there if available, but if they refuse to remove it, the claim holder has the right to get it removed. Maybe you're new to land claims and not sure how they work? 

 

Again this is hard to even discuss properly since you're being so vague.

 

I'm sure heads would only lock the thread if the discussion would get disruptive and out of topic.

[Narissis]

Crock, I think you're mistaking "use of power" for "abuse of power".

 

The admins are in charge of the server. They reserve the right to remove builds at their discretion in order to maintain a standard of quality for builds.

 

If the build you're complaining about really had as much work put into it as you claim, it certainly wouldn't have been removed. The only builds I've ever seen admins remove are extremely derpy ones, or unfinished somewhat derpy ones where the player is long gone and obviously not returning to complete.

 

You're claiming that they arbitrarily destroyed a high-quality build without providing a reason. That's ridiculous. As in any context, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and since you're unwilling to provide that, there is no merit to your complaint. It's ludicrous to suggest that the admins are some kind of oppressive presence actively prowling the server for builds to remove just for fun. Even if they wanted to troll the server by removing builds indiscriminately, they have far too much on their plate to even have that much time to waste.

 

I'm sorry if you have problems with authority, but the simple fact of the matter is that the admins manage the server and they are fully within their rights to remove builds and read chat logs. If they wanted to rollback the rev entirely tomorrow, they'd have the right to do so. They won't, because that would be stupid. Just like they won't aggressively remove builds that are actively being worked on, because that would be stupid. Your claims would be concerning with evidence, but since they're baseless accusations they're dubious at best.

 

I agree with Zomise; all you're doing here is attempting to incite drama based on your persecution complex that the admins are somehow after you. It's not going to fly if you refuse to provide evidence.

[Guest Former Staff]

I spoke with you over private message Crockoduck since you mentioned that we could ask for more information.

 

The version of events that you've described to me are that you were removed from a town by a town owner that is also an administrator where initially there was a request made (verbal / typed / otherwise) to you before your build was removed.

 

I understand you're concerned that your build was removed before you had removed it yourself and that process was sped up as the person asking was able to do that themselves.

 

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From my perspective, whether the build was removed by that individual, yourself or another admin, the outcome would have been the same.

 

Was this process potentially faster than normal? Yes. This individual has saved the other admins the time and effort by doing it themselves.

 

Is it unfair that this individual could do this faster than most people could have the request in? Maybe a little but when you've put the hours of time and effort into keeping the community going like they have, this is a small concession to have.

 

Should another admin have handled this request? Sure, if they beat the individual to handling it. I think it may be at the very least worth another admin just taking a quick look and giving an individual the go ahead to remove such a build, so that in future if there are ever any similar complaints like this, then such individuals can say ____ gave me permission, take it up with them.

 

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TLDR: Move on, play blocks. This isn't worth pouring another minute into.

[cdmrtbeok]

I hope the admins are spying on me talking nonsense to tolken. I'd love to feel special