PvE revision ending policy

[CROCKODUCK]

Hello everyone.  I would like to start by saying this is not an annoying "please end the rev plsplsplspls" post.  This is a formal inquiry into this idea that I and a staff member who I will leave unnamed for now, came up with.  This of course is only a thought, so please don't throw lots of drama around.  The main idea is to have some sort of policy in place that says basically after a certain amount of time has passed, PvE either goes into PAvE or a new revision.  This would obviously cut down on the 5 month revisions that have seem to become real.  One of the downsides I recognize is how it would put possible strain on the hardworking Padmins, which is definitely not wanted.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on this please by all means tell below.  Thank you!

[Denevien]

Well, this next revision will have the chance to expand once the inner part "fills up". I use the quotes because this mayo isn't full by any means. The problem arises when someone mentions a new Rev, everyone Hussy's stops building because they assume any new projects are pointless. The Rev was still doing great until the update and the other servers restarted. Someone mentioned new p Rev (even though admins said we had no plans to restart yet). Then everyone quit playing to wait on a new Rev. So the process we begin during a natural decline had to be rushed since activity just fell instead of a gradual decline.

That being said, personally I'm not a fan of a set length restart. Sometimes that hinders organizations like FISA from finishing all their schedule. But, I'm willing to listen to arguments for and against it to see how the community feels and go from there.

[CROCKODUCK]

Thanks for responding Dene, though personally I thought it would be faster seeing as how you are always watching ,_,  That being said I can see your point.  The concept was obviously by no means to cut it short, but something that players could rely on to end the rev, instead of simply just waiting it out like most have currently been doing.  Say that the rev goes dead about 3 and a half months into it, which is common honestly, then players would know that the rev would at least be over at around 4 and a half months, or sooner if the admins already made plans for PAvE.  I can understand both sides of the argument on this one however.  

Edited September 3, 2013 by CROCKODUCK

[Weazol]

I wont speak for everyone. But I know myself and a few others quit on this rev because revs usually last 3 months. 

If an admin were to make the announcement that from now one revs will last 6 months. Then I would have stuck around. But when we hit the three month mark and I was being told it could be in 2 weeks or maybe a month... yea I'm not gonna attempt another project only to have the rev end on me.

 

Ninja Edit: Just to be clear. I am all for the set length. On rev start say this rev is ending 150 days from now. All projects events would be able to be planned according to such.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Weazol

[teddylover]

I still come on to play with my horses whenever my brother give me the fucking computer which is hardly ever nowadays even though I bought it

[Jalamookoofoo]

Here's my situation: in mid June there was lots of talk about a new rev coming up. I knew I was going to be gone for the entire summer, and was almost certain that by the time I was back the next rev would be underway, as (at the time) a 5 month rev was unheard of. So I basically packed it in, and gave all of my stuff away to people who could use it more. Long story short, I've been back for two weeks and was super disappointed that there aren't even plans to end the rev yet.

Now, this is totally my fault because I know that even in June all the official word was that there weren't any plans to end the rev. That's all in the past. Now all I want is for there to be regular updates about server status.

I think that a weekly or bi-weekly "wrap-up/upcoming happenings" post would really help reduce the amount of people that flee 3 months into the rev under the expectation that it's almost over.

[saberfysh]

To be honest I came to believe in the "PvE resets their rev every 3 months" idea because that was historically the pattern that RedditMC ran on (based on reading the wiki). Up to that point PvE had never deviated heavily from this schedule of sorts, so I thought that a particular length of 3 months was decided upon by the server staff based on long-term observation of server activity and player feedback. It was like that before I joined, and I figured there was probably a good reason why. Maybe it was to match the seasons. Maybe that was how fast the RedditMC community could fill up the map. Maybe people were used to this timeframe since day one. Maybe it was the most reasonable length of time to play a rev in anticipation of new versions of Minecraft announced throughout the year. As an outsider, I've never been told the concrete reasoning behind it, so I'm left to muse silently with what I know are personal guesses, and accept that this is what staff considered the most optimal way of running the server. Only in recent times have the revs been extended, and while I've played on nothing but extended P revs (r10 and r11), this unannounced change of routine and rhythm probably threw people out of their comfort zone and usual expectations. 

 

I'm slowly understanding that behind the scenes, this server has had some untold turbulent history since PvE Rev 9 (Barneygale being a small part of that story) and that getting everything settled down internally has not been easy. I sense a lack of transparency and coordination which suggests certain things are still a work in progress, for it does not appear to be a smooth transition period between old staff leaving and new staff joining. In an attempt to fix that, you've done what you can to keep things running, starting with appointing thrawn as a head admin, totemo to a tech admin and getting many familiar faces (tompreuss, MrLoud, socarch, kitcatbar) into moderation and admin roles. Running a server entails a lot of things, such as coordinating events, maintaining server funding/stability, dealing with bans, dealing with plugins, fixing bugs, lack of staffing at certain periods due to real life responsibilities, etc. If it is true that RedditMC's leadership is currently dealing with all this with a downsized or inexperienced staff team, this can be overwhelming. In any case though, letting the community know what's going on is a better alternative than leaving them worried and restless. I too, am concerned about the welfare of RedditMC and many other players in this wonderful community would probably like to know too, or even help out here and there.

 

So, I agree with Jala that even a monthly bulletin would do much to anchor and assuage the player base -- it's a good way to keep communication lines open and reinforces trust in the players that the server is an active and vibrant one. Telling us you need donations at the CTF event is a good example of that, as would telling us about adding new plugins like Enchantism on S or extending the duration of revs on P from now on. As long as you communicate with us in some official or very visible capacity, I think most in the community would be more understanding.

Edited September 14, 2013 by saberfysh

[uni0]

I feel a bit bad for p players, but if you guys really want something you should make your voices heard more. Don't think it's trolling, the server really needs input from its community.

 

If I were a p player what I'd be asking is: Given the low player count that p has been experiencing for a few weeks now, why is there no new p map or at least an official word from p admins justifying the hold up? There are no tech issues as impediment (which is usually the hold up); all that's needed is a new map which was supposedly done a couple of months ago and the spawn which I'm sure other mods can help with if needed and finish that fast.

 

Perhaps there is a great reason for why it has been delayed so much, perhaps not. My guess is that irl things came up and p admins haven't been able to do much. Whatever the situation is, there needs to be solid communication on what the hold up is, and if there is something the rest of the community can do to help, then get other people involved.

 

Barlimore has mentioned that CTF and new p rev launch are not necessarily dependent on each other, and all the feedback I've seen so far supports this idea.

 

This lack of communication and/or disregard for what the community is voicing is exactly the kind of thing that polarizes and makes people frustrated and ultimately why people quit.

[Denevien]

Barlimore has mentioned that CTF and new p rev launch are not necessarily dependent on each other, and all the feedback I've seen so far supports this idea.

 

This lack of communication and/or disregard for what the community is voicing is exactly the kind of thing that polarizes and makes people frustrated and ultimately why people quit.

 

The thing is, we have been saying all along that we were waiting until after CTF. On multiple occasions we've stated this, due to not wanting to launch a map, then go down in a week or two for an event. We didn't expect it to take this long for CTF, or we might have reconsidered, but all along we knew it was almost time for CTF. I do think that occasional meetings (like that was mentioned in the last staff event) would be a good idea, I just have not got around to putting this into practice. I'll try to plan one of these soon, so be on the lookout.

[shredtilldeth]

I'm in agreement with the majority of this thread. I just wish that I / we / the rest of the P community, would've known that the rev would last this long. Rev 10 (if I'm not mistaken) was apparently "the longest rev ever" and now Rev 11 has beat that. I know that myself, and many others in the community were under the impression that the rev was ending sometime in June. And, I know it wasn't stated outright but I got that impression from the mods as well. Even though we got posts that said "we have no intention of ending the rev just yet" it seemed that it would still be ending sometime *soon.

I think most of the miscommunication revolved around the CTF game. CTF came and had issues, so was shut down. Then, we were told that the new rev would come after CTF. I'm sure most of us figured it'd be a week or 2 to fix CTF then we'd have a new rev afterwards.

I'm in no way trying to bash any of the mods or techs. I understand that shit happens, things get delayed, and people have real lives. I just wish we were more informed as a community. It is my personal opinion that if we all knew what was going on then the rev wouldn't have died out when / as quickly as it did.

[coolgamerovr90]

Here's what I have to say on this, I stopped playing on P and even building things on C because I thought what's the point, since the rev is ending so soon I probably won't even be able to finish up the project i'm working on. I think a post with approximately how much time we have until the rev ends by a staff member would be more comforting and would bring some people back to the servers, but that's just my opinion. It would also encourage me to start building more things again, also

[WKONEDERFUL]

Here's what I have to say on this, I stopped playing on P and even building things on C because I thought what's the point, since the rev is ending so soon I probably won't even be able to finish up the project i'm working on. I think a post with approximately how much time we have until the rev ends by a staff member would be more comforting and would bring some people back to the servers, but that's just my opinion. It would also encourage me to start building more things again, also

 

Agreed. I've been building and collecting stuff on P for the past two or three months, but I've lost interest completely now because I'm waiting for the damn Rev to end so I can start fresh again. Judging by what I've read here, I'm not the only one.

Another thing, why was 3 months decided as the optimal time for a rev's life? I think 6 months would be a much better timeframe, personally. This would enable players the time they need to do some really incredible builds, and also would ease pressure on the staff & mods. 

 

Also: Will the next rev be upgraded to 1.7 once it is released? There's some cool new biomes in 1.7 from the snapshots I've seen on Youtube, the Mesa biome in particular looks incredible.

Edited September 15, 2013 by WKONEDERFUL

[schererererer]

Another thing, why was 3 months decided as the optimal time for a rev's life?

Time for a history lesson. Revisions 1-4 all ended due to primarily technical reasons such as map backup loss or file corruption. Coincidentally, these were all around the 2 month mark, and revision 5 was reset after a similar timeframe due to natural population decrease. In rev 6 we decided to hold off on resetting when we reached that duration due to continued, though diminished, activity on PvE (around 20-30 peak as compared to ~60 toward the rev start). A key point to note is many if not most of these regular players were new, and thus provided vocal opposition to a reset. We kept an eye on graphs of population trends and in-game activity and after careful analysis decided to end it at an inflection point near the 3 month mark.

 

Revision 7 followed the same trend, resetting at the 3 month mark, while 8 and 9 reset closer to 2.5 months. Revision 10 was a little over 4 months, and revision 11 is currently just shy of 5.5 months in length. In the grand scheme of things, the "3 month revision length" is more a motto to embody the balance struck between long-term and short-term players; ultimately we cut a rev based on player activity trends. The elongation past expiration of revisions today is a result of trying to balance the lifespan of a map with minecraft updates and special events, which both sometimes have a dearth of predictability.

[tobylane]

12 people disagreed with the following on Reddit, where I got no other feedback. Can anyone offer some here?

 

No.

Staff are volunteers and therefore should have no such time demands. The most you can ask for is some sort of time to acceptance, but that feels useless. What questions are there that can't be answered by either 'It depends on the tech' or by a nonstaff player?

[CROCKODUCK]

12 people disagreed with the following on Reddit, where I got no other feedback. Can anyone offer some here?

 

No.

Staff are volunteers and therefore should have no such time demands. The most you can ask for is some sort of time to acceptance, but that feels useless. What questions are there that can't be answered by either 'It depends on the tech' or by a nonstaff player?

This is suggesting we do nothing.  What do you want us to say? "YEAH OUR CURRENT BROKEN SYSTEM IS SUPER DUPER!"

[teddylover]

PAdmins chose to be PAdmins and choose to help the community (really P) but must give us as many answers as possible. Like is there a percentage of next rev done yet? Im sure that would help. And also tell us without giving away spoilers (screenshots) what needs to be done still.

[Guest Former Staff]

I can see there are a number of questions in here which would be good to be raised at the P meeting. In case anyone wasn't already aware, follow that link. :-)