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EeHee2000

The "Toxic" Debacle

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Is it possible the head admin had a legitimate reason for saying "I will not discuss this matter any further with you"? There is a lot of missing information here, meaning to me that we cannot adequately gauge whether this is an example of systemic prejudice and discrimination against you or others without more context - in my opinion.

To clear this up, that was me after saying that eehee's main request was not technically possible (and responding to a number of other concerns). In hindsight, I should have phrased it more like "there is nothing more that can be done on this matter", but the intent all the same was to indicate that what he wanted was not going to happen. For the record, the exchange was mostly constructive and mature suggestion/dialog (with a bit of sardonicism tacked on at the end) and his idea would have been good but for being unachievable.

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Just like tobylane, you're picking out the worst of what I said. Nevermind the fact that I genuinely want to help nerd and have expressed that I know I'm a dick, just point out that I "want to be a dick" in order to get your point across. 

Where did you draw the conclusion that I "want" to be a dick? 

You say that if I'm a dick to people I don't like, my credibility goes away; tell me, have I been a dick in this thread? 

My plea to you is to treat me like a dick when I'm a dick and treat me like a non-dick when I'm not a dick. The same applies to other toxic people. 

If you can't do that, there's another solution to this entire thing gone. However, remember; this is is a Minecraft forum, are you really going to hold enough spite to completely and utterly ignore people over something like that? I'd assume you're more reasonable than that, come on now. 

 

The worst of what you said is something you said. We're not twisting your words to find something disagreeable. Are you willing to try being genuinely helpful for a whole week, see what different reception that gets you by the end?

 

Your plea is one I believe we've already said no to, tebok summed it up best. I think that some people - mostly the people being called toxic - couldn't do that to me when I wanted it a few years ago.

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I think we all have a role to play in communication, and that it's a two-way street. Getting back to the main topic of the thread, one thing that I believe is fundamentally important is for the staff to explain their rationale for not accepting a certain suggestion. Instead of just saying "we can't do that", go into a little detail as to why. For example, "we can't do that because it was tried in the past and did not work out" or "we can't do that because it's incompatible with plugins x, y, and z". Or even if it's subjective, "we *won't* do that because it risks having such-and-such impact on the community".

 

If people understood the rationale behind the decision to not implement their suggestions, they'd be less likely to assume the staff are ignoring them. Explaining the reasoning plays a double role: not only is it good in and of itself, it also demonstrates that the suggestion was heard and considered.

 

Narissis I mildly disagree with giving reasoning because it can be seen as an opening for questioning or debate. I'd rather the people saying the admins are mistaken/wrong would go and prove it (I believe roastnewt has done it this way), but while they want to argue it won't help anyone.

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Is it that hard to believe out of the hundreds of people who have played here over the past 5+ years, 40 or so are douchebags? Seems about right to me.

 

I'm sorry but the crux of this issue seems to be a certain segment of players have trouble dealing with any sort of authority and rubbed some people the wrong way and are now upset that they have trouble dealing with authority and want to be catered to.

 

Guys it is time to drop this. If you are having serious social problems I suggest going outside and making some new friends. It isn't the nerd.nu staff that is your problem.

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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Eehee, thank you for engaging this thread in a mature way. I would feel respect for you if all my interactions with you were of this quality. I hope you continue it consistently in the future since you clearly recognize what less positive interactions have resulted in. 

 

You and I don't have that many interactions overall, so I hope you'll see me as impartial and non judgemental. To that end I will try to discuss what I have observed in this post, and not my own feelings, just philosophy of the situation.

The unfortunate nature of your circumstance is that some of your previous interactions have earned you a negative reputation, even to people that don't commonly interacted directly with you. That reputation is now coloring the staff's consideration of your best intentions. This occurrence is normal human social exchange and bias used to effectively perform a cost-benefit analysis for sorting good sources of ideas from the bad. While your current interactions may be good, people rank the value of information sources based on their historical performance and the experience of others. In this way a person will attempt avoid a negative experience if they have had a negative experience in the same circumstance in the past, or if they know of other people who have. These factors are summarily known as reputation.

I don't dislike you at all, but I will admit that I avoided commenting, and for a while even reading this forum post, because I was aware of the negative experience that others (both staff and your own friends) were having related to it. My own reputation is affected by what I even comment on. Whether I make a profound independent statement or simply concurrence with another person's viewpoint. To that end, who I associate with colors my reputation too, albeit to much less effect than my own actions. 

My point is, everything you do affects how we perceive you and by effect treat you. Overcoming a negative reputation is hard. I will admit that I have mistakes in the past that others may remember, and I work every day to ensure those are not the foremost consideration in their mind. You have a potentially long road ahead to doing the same based on the comments I've seen in this post, but that is not unachievable. You can't change your past, and that may make you feel helpless. I urge you to take what you've learned, don't expect immediate results, and work towards being a player we all respect and listen to. I think you can be valuable, if you will accept that your past gives us trouble accepting that now and work through that difficulty with grace like you have here.

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Narissis I mildly disagree with giving reasoning because it can be seen as an opening for questioning or debate. I'd rather the people saying the admins are mistaken/wrong would go and prove it (I believe roastnewt has done it this way), but while they want to argue it won't help anyone.

That's part of the point, though. If a valid argument can be made against the reason for denying a suggestion, then it should be entertained. And having that dialogue makes it more likely to find workarounds if the reason for not implementing a suggestion is a technical one.

 

If the argument is "no, you're wrong," then the admins can just come back with "sorry, we're not" or even go the extra mile and provide the data. They aren't obligated to bend over backwards to explain themselves, but the initial explanation would be very valuable

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Just a thought here, has anyone, staff member or general player, addressed the origin of the term toxic & its original connotations? I've looked through everything here and have only seen (what i assume to be) a joke by cmdrtebok about it.

 

I believe the original definition to hold true, generalized by Type X players being consistently disruptive. Regardless of whether their concerns or anyone else's are valid/not, individuals or groups participating generally offensive and/or subversive behavior is not and has not been tolerated on the servers since July of 2011, if not longer than that, regardless of what standard practice has come to dictate. The context of conversations, concerns, etc has always been determined by attending staff members, who have always turned out punishments appropriately, or should have been. If a particular judgement is seen as unwarranted, it usually is corrected as soon as possible. If it's not and appealed with the respect and earnestness it should be, then it's generally corrected by someone else & the initial staff member is chastised appropriately. Further inappropriate conduct on the side of a staff member without the ability to distinguish between personal & professional feelings is monitored & acted on appropriately, given the time to be.

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That was no joke. I wrote the problem players document in 2011 or earlier and coined the term toxic in relation to type X.

The term means exactly what it says, the presence of specific individual was having far reaching and negative effects on the player base as a whole. This is a page out of a typical HR manual.

 

The actual reference is this http://www.slideshare.net/vishnu/how-to-protect-yourhow-to-protect-your-open-source-project-from-poisonous-people

 

and I learned of it because Amaranthus was joking that he was once kicked out of an open source project for being toxic.

 

Frankly, I think the term has actual merit and that there is such a thing as a toxic community member. I understand how people feel dismissed once this label is applied to them but I also pretty sure that this is not being tossed around undeserved.

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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Is it that hard to believe out of the hundreds of people who have played here over the past 5+ years, 40 or so are douchebags? Seems about right to me.

 

I'm sorry but the crux of this issue seems to be a certain segment of players have trouble dealing with any sort of authority and rubbed some people the wrong way and are now upset that they have trouble dealing with authority and want to be catered to.

 

Guys it is time to drop this. If you are having serious social problems I suggest going outside and making some new friends. It isn't the nerd.nu staff that is your problem.

Why are you being so needlessly antagonistic? 

Stop blowing this shit out of proportion, we're having a reasonable discussion save for your bullshit and unneeded remarks. 

It's not that we're simply all douchebags that can't deal with any authority and want to be catered to, and your side remark telling us to go outside and make friends is pointless. 

Stop dismissing the entire conversation with your petulant whining about how we're all shitty people and how you wish we'd just go away, because that's not happening. Contribute, or fuck off. 

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The irony of you calling me petulant in this thread is astounding.

 

Look man, I'm an adult who has been playing on these servers and contributing both with my blocks, thoughts and wallet for 5 years. I don't require anyone listen to what I have to say but I know that in the end of the day I have social capital because I play along, I help new players, I'm nice in chat and contribute when asked.

 

You are hostile, arrogant, petulant (look up the definition) and frankly after reading through this toxic. You have problems here because you are not nice to people, you even copped to that how you are not nice and within minutes of people signing in you are doing dick things. I am literally just going by what you have wrote in this thread.

 

I am contributing to this. I am bringing reality to this. This thread is pathetic Eehee, I don't even know you and I have had no opinion of you until just now and that opinion is is I am not going to be listening to you in the future or addressing you again.  You don't deserve to be listened to as far as I am concerned. Respect is earned, not given. You and the people you are going to bat for have already spent your social capital and are now bankrupt. You want to come online and play some blocks and be nice and chill out then I'll do that man but I'm not going to tolerate people being a dick.

 

Also what really bugs me are these kinds of threads. Look at what UNP wrote in here, look at how Nullsquare who doesn't even participate was dragged in. Kittypuppets ridiculous and likely made up survey, I think it makes us all look bad for no reason and I think it paints an unfair picture of our community based on extreme bias. One that I think we are unique in the fact we don't immediately suppress. I think we probably should. I am getting nasty because this is an exercise in futility. Dicing scher's words is a waste of his time and frankly I don't think he should be wasting it on you. Demanding answers from people who owe you less than nothing. Who the fuck do you think you are?

 

Not everyone on this server is a shitty person, just a few. However really the kernel of all of this is that some players lack maturity to an extreme level. This is why I said you need to go outside, that is where you grow up.  You are going to remember this in the future and be embarrassed. I know I regret a lot of my actions being a teenager on the internet in the 90s. It was less intense then too.

 

I will stay wishing the people who can't play nice would just go away.

 

 

Edit: I also want to stress something else actually. This took me 30 minutes to write. If you were a client of mine during work hours you would now owe me hundreds of dollars of billable time. I am not boasting and I am not kidding. The point I am trying to make is my time is valuable.

 

I did not write this lightly, I will also not read any response from you with out equal time and value put into it. I would expect we can pick this up sometime in a few months. Please think really hard about yourself and your actions and why people sidelined you the way that they did. This could be a moment of personal growth. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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I want to issue a challenge to all the slighted people who are terrified of playing here because of staff oppression or being sidelined.

 

Come online and play and be nice. Don't troll. Don't be an asshole, no exceptions. Move some blocks around, chat on mumble about in-game topics or actual human topics that don't devolve into the profane.

 

I am willing to bet $500 that the person will not be banned. I will bet that they would even probably be well liked and welcomed. The people who keep complaining, from an objective viewpoint of some dude in New York who plays video games and reads nonsense online is that the people who get banned fucked up. Why should we be nice to people who can't do somehting as simple as I have described. Why should we keep around people who feel like it is their god given right to be an asshole to some people, which is exactly what people are demanding. fuck that!

 

This is actually ridiculous. I can't believe I had to actually type that out.

 

There is no toxic "debacle" thats /thread

 

The guys said they will be more understanding. You guys have to stop being dicks. Problem solved. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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The irony of you calling me petulant in this thread is astounding.

 

Look man, I'm an adult who has been playing on these servers and contributing both with my blocks, thoughts and wallet for 5 years. I don't require anyone listen to what I have to say but I know that in the end of the day I have social capital because I play along, I help new players, I'm nice in chat and contribute when asked.

 

You are hostile, arrogant, petulant (look up the definition) and frankly after reading through this toxic. You have problems here because you are not nice to people, you even copped to that how you are not nice and within minutes of people signing in you are doing dick things. I am literally just going by what you have wrote in this thread.

I won't bother asking how you see me as toxic after this thread, your definition of toxic appears to be "an asshole attempting to contribute"; because, at the end of the day, that is exactly what I am. 
I've not been unreasonably hostile in this thread at all, and if I have been I'd like you to show me where I've been the antagonist. You however have been calling myself and other toxic people "hostile" for god knows how long. It's gotten to the point where nothing short of kissing your ass in a very literal fashion will suffice. 
 

I am contributing to this. I am bringing reality to this. This thread is pathetic Eehee, I don't even know you and I have had no opinion of you until just now and that opinion is is I am not going to be listening to you in the future or addressing you again.  You don't deserve to be listened to as far as I am concerned. Respect is earned, not given. You and the people you are going to bat for have already spent your social capital and are now bankrupt. You want to come online and play some blocks and be nice and chill out then I'll do that man but I'm not going to tolerate people being a dick.

 

Also what really bugs me are these kinds of threads. Look at what UNP wrote in here, look at how Nullsquare who doesn't even participate was dragged in. Kittypuppets ridiculous and likely made up survey, I think it makes us all look bad for no reason and I think it paints an unfair picture of our community based on extreme bias. One that I think we are unique in the fact we don't immediately suppress. I think we probably should. I am getting nasty because this is an exercise in futility. Dicing scher's words is a waste of his time and frankly I don't think he should be wasting it on you. Demanding answers from people who owe you less than nothing. Who the fuck do you think you are?

 

Not everyone on this server is a shitty person, just a few. However really the kernel of all of this is that some players lack maturity to an extreme level. This is why I said you need to go outside, that is where you grow up.  You are going to remember this in the future and be embarrassed. I know I regret a lot of my actions being a teenager on the internet in the 90s. It was less intense then too.

You've been referring to me offhandedly as "toxic" for weeks, don't set yourself into a falsely 'unbiased' perspective to exaggerate your point. 
I don't think much will change with your vow to never consider what I say ever again, because you're a prime example of the "blah blah blah I can't hear you" people that I mentioned earlier. 
I didn't "dice" scher's words in any way, and I'll send you a link to a screenshot of it to prove that. Please, don't be so arrogant as to make assumptions of conversations you haven't seen the first word of. 

 

This is actually ridiculous. I can't believe I had to actually type that out.

There is no toxic "debacle" thats /thread

The guys said they will be more understanding. You guys have to stop being dicks. Problem solved. 

Did I ask for more after MasterCommaThe's post? No, the idea was that I'd do as he suggested and keep trying to not be toxic. I'm perfectly willing do do that. 
 

I want to issue a challenge to all the slighted people who are terrified of playing here because of staff oppression or being sidelined.

 

Come online and play and be nice. Don't troll. Don't be an asshole, no exceptions. Move some blocks around, chat on mumble about in-game topics or actual human topics that don't devolve into the profane.

 

I am willing to bet $500 that the person will not be banned. I will bet that they would even probably be well liked and welcomed. The people who keep complaining, from an objective viewpoint of some dude in New York who plays video games and reads nonsense online is that the people who get banned fucked up. Why should we be nice to people who can't do somehting as simple as I have described. Why should we keep around people who feel like it is their god given right to be an asshole to some people, which is exactly what people are demanding. fuck that!

 

https://nerd.nu/forums/topic/2072-eehee2000-tompreuss/?hl=eehee2000

Keep your money. 

Edited by EeHee2000
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This means less than nothing to me. You have a pattern of problem behavior and were banned for that. You should still be. Scherererer owes you, as I said, less than nothing then and now. Your responses to him in these links are crazy person talk. 

 

http://prntscr.com/6qxjeb

http://prntscr.com/6qxj8c

 

You are not contributing in good faith. You are causing problems. Grow up. 

 

I've been calling you toxic for weeks because you are obsessing and persevering over this for weeks in a way that is unacceptable.

Edited by cdmrtbeok

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I've been calling you toxic for weeks because you are obsessing and persevering over this for weeks in a way that is unacceptable.

That is in no way what being "toxic" is, and you wonder why I started this thread in the first place, irritated about people using the word so incorrectly as a label. 

This thread was nice and smooth until you jumped in throwing insults at everyone you disliked - I'm not the one that needs to grow up. 

I've given you clear evidence of what you were speaking against, and your refusal to accept that you were wrong isn't something that bothers me a whole lot. 

If it meant less than nothing to you, why would you mention it in the first place? 

Your opinion on whether I should be banned is completely irrelevant, because you have extreme bias. 

Cheers. 

Edited by EeHee2000
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First of all Eehee, I have no interest in talking to you privately so you can trap me in some bullshit. Never message me directly again. I read those conversations completely differently than you. You missed the part where I said "no exceptions" you posted some trolling low content bullshit to the forums minutes after you have been unbanned. Scherererer is not in the wrong there and you have had a consistent pattern of trolling. Why is this so hard for you to understand. Then again you probably also have no idea what Allahu Ackbar means. You weren't banned for no reason, you were banned for being a systemic problem. Even though you think you are contributing you are still being a problem and you are dragging people into it that should all just drop it. This thread has incited people for no reason

 

Second this is not going smoothly, this is going sadly. You are making work for people. You think I have extreme bias? I assure you I do not. As I said come online play blocks and chill out all problems go away but if you want to keep at this so be it. If you liked MasterCommaThe's answer then close the thread. Which by the way is advice you really should have learned by now. He wrote run of the mill treat people like an adult stuff. We don't need 9 pages of this to get to that. 

 

You are demanding answers from people who don't owe you any. I don't dislike you or anyone in particular and I can and will forgive anyone who chills out and is nice. This is not nice. You are dicing words and demanding answers. You are talking in circles for pages and pages. Several people have even tried to come in and make sense of this. We can't. No one can because it reads like the rantings of a lunatic. 

 

If you have problems with specific people bring it up with them in a civil matter, or just FUCKING DROP IT AND PLAY BLOCKS.

 

Also you hilited the wrong part of my post so allow me to repeat it for you:

 

 Why should we keep around people who feel like it is their god given right to be an asshole to some people, which is exactly what people are demanding. fuck that!

 

This is actually ridiculous. I can't believe I had to actually type that out.

 

There is no toxic "debacle" thats /thread

 

The guys said they will be more understanding. You guys have to stop being dicks. Problem solved. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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First of all Eehee, I have no interest in talking to you privately so you can trap me in some bullshit. Never message me directly again. I read those conversations completely differently than you. Scherererer is not in the wrong there and you have had a consistent pattern of trolling. Why is this so hard for you to understand. Then again you probably also have no idea what Allahu Ackbar means. You weren't banned for no reason, you were banned for being a systemic problem. Even though you think you are contributing you are still being a problem and you are dragging people into it that should all just drop it. This thread has incited people for no reason

 

Second this is not going smoothly, this is going sadly. You are making work for people. You think I have extreme bias? I assure you I do not. As I said come online play blocks and chill out all problems go away but if you want to keep at this so be it. If you liked MasterCommaThe's answer then close the thread. 

Don't act shitty because I private messaged you with clear, solid evidence of what I was claiming. 

You say I have no idea what "allahu ackbar" means, but that's an assumption and you yourself can't even fucking spell it correctly. 

I was banned for no reason, it's stated in that goddamn appeal. Hell, I can even go further and provide logs of a discussion I had with Denevien at the time, but based on how you've acted toward all my other links you'll instantly dismiss it. 

How am I making "work" for people? They choose whether they want to reply or not, just as you and I are choosing right now. 

I don't have problems with many specific people other than those who absolutely refuse to listen to any form of reason purely out of what seems to be spite, as you've done in ignoring my logs and links/ 

Anyway, I'll go ahead and request a thread close as you suggested. 

Let's see if we can make any progress in the following months. 

Edited by EeHee2000
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Actually there is no completely agreed upon way of romanizing Arabic into English nor do they have really care about standardized spelling in Arabic in the way we do in English. So what I added a c, the sound doesn't actually exist in English.

 

Source: I'm Iranian

Edited by cdmrtbeok

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Also, in general no one reads replies to conversations where someone quotes blocks and comment on each. This is not how people discuss things and it is widely considered to be a dick move. Refer to the salient points and add what you have to say.

 

This applies not just here, everywhere.

 

Try sending your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend something like that. 

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