Regarding my last thread

[twilexis]

My thoughts: xray bans should stay how it is. x-raying is black and white; there is no 'accidental xray', you know if you're cheating. Rolling everything back is a consequence for the player personally because it (should) discourage long-term players from doing it because of how it will affect the people they play with. Sucks when it happens but it's a major consequence of cheating.

 

My only concern with tempbans; if someone logs in and griefs and is given a tempban of, say, one day, but they don't log in for a week anyway, how will they know they were banned? I know next to nothing how the system works so it could already address this, but that's the only negative I can think of.

[Forever_A_Steve]

 

My thoughts: xray bans should stay how it is. x-raying is black and white; there is no 'accidental xray', you know if you're cheating. Rolling everything back is a consequence for the player personally because it (should) discourage long-term players from doing it because of how it will affect the people they play with. Sucks when it happens but it's a major consequence of cheating.

 

 

 

 

I disagree and think it should receive some very overdue reform. 

[barneygale]

Get on that then

Don't be ridiculous, MCBouncer has a Mojang-enforced monopoly on ban plug-ins. You can't just, like, add temp bans.

[barneygale]

Out of interest, is there a similar policy for people caught hacking, i.e. fixed sentence and complete rollback?

[Forever_A_Steve]

Out of interest, is there a similar policy for people caught hacking, i.e. fixed sentence and complete rollback?

 

 

I think it's just a 1 month ban. No idea.

 

 

As for rollbacks, no. Admins let me keep the 3 stacks of command blocks that some hacker gave me after I offered the blocks to them on C.

 

[twilexis]

 

As for rollbacks, no. Admins let me keep the 3 stacks of command blocks that some hacker gave me after I offered the blocks to them on C.

 

 

Uh, they're allowed on C as a decorative block. You can place them but they don't do anything.

[Forever_A_Steve]

Uh, they're allowed on C as a decorative block. You can place them but they don't do anything.

 

 

I can bring up the command lines if i timed it right. 

Considering how I can't place them for decorative use, I'm assuming they are the real deal. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Forever_A_Steve

[tobylane]

I disagree and think it should receive some very overdue reform. 

 

What's the motivation for that? Saving one or two players you like doesn't objectively matter. Saving a few good players that may or may not exist in the sea of first time xray offenders doesn't appear to be worth it. Could you show us how it could be worth it, rather than just claim it? Can you think about the downsides from the admins perspective?

[barneygale]

Can you stop being so reactionary tobylane? The rules weren't passed down by moses. Half the stuff we're discussing was laid down while I was admin, and I know for a fact that we didn't sit down and discuss it at the lengths we have in this thread. Nerd has a reputation for banning too harshly, and does some stuff that is considered [i[weird as hell[/i] by modern minecraft standards, e.g. all bans are permanent until appealed.

[tobylane]

I don't see that I am being reactionary, I don't see that anyone not subject to a Nerd ban calls them harsh. If we have too many people calling them harsh then we have too many people who tested the rules without any tact or delicacy. I don't agree with ban appeals being weird, but I don't go seeking to be unbanned in endless places. We're all agreed on that ending anyway, tempbans as soon as possible.

 

It could be considered reactionary to only start a discussion about rule changes when you were personally affected, which by my count has happened twice in this discussion. But I'd rather leave the mud in the ground not in the air/faces. We're agreeing in small areas and lets keep that ball rolling.

Edited December 13, 2015 by tobylane

[Forever_A_Steve]

This thread is to provide feedback towards the rules and ban policies. 

 

The creation of this thread signals that many are not happy with the current policies and are awaiting change.

 

 

 

Considering how any communications outside the ingame servers is prettymuch vacant and only occupied my staff or regulars, this is very very good progress. Many moderators and even the admin who revolutionized how to catch x-rayers are in support of this. 

[twilexis]

My concern is that this thread may not be the general feeling of the population of people any rule changes will actually affect.

 

While feedback is always good, more than half of the people who have commented here either aren't active anywhere other than the forums/reddit, or don't play on a server where this will actually affect them.

 

I'm all for change, but only if that change is a true reflection of the feelings of genuine players, not the loud minority that have logged barely 30 minutes collectively.

[roastnewt]

My concern is that this thread may not be the general feeling of the population of people any rule changes will actually affect.

While feedback is always good, more than half of the people who have commented here either aren't active anywhere other than the forums/reddit, or don't play on a server where this will actually affect them.

I'm all for change, but only if that change is a true reflection of the feelings of genuine players, not the loud minority that have logged barely 30 minutes collectively.

I don't like this argument. You can say the same thing about ANY issue. People that stopped playing may have stopped playing BECAUSE of issues they saw with the servers. If you only take the opinions of people that play all the time, then you're going to get a self-selecting group of people who are okay with the status-quo (or at least, okay enough for them to be able to continue playing).

[Forever_A_Steve]

I don't like this argument. You can say the same thing about ANY issue. People that stopped playing may have stopped playing BECAUSE of issues they saw with the servers. If you only take the opinions of people that play all the time, then you're going to get a self-selecting group of people who are okay with the status-quo (or at least, okay enough for them to be able to continue playing).

 

 

exactly. This isn't about regulars. It's about everyone. Newbies, those who are banned, current players, etc. 

 

 

Those who are playing now couldn't give a crap about our policy since it doesn't affect most of them in any way. We want a way to make this server more welcoming and better for everyone. 

[tobylane]

I don't like this argument. You can say the same thing about ANY issue. People that stopped playing may have stopped playing BECAUSE of issues they saw with the servers. If you only take the opinions of people that play all the time, then you're going to get a self-selecting group of people who are okay with the status-quo (or at least, okay enough for them to be able to continue playing).

 

Show us, or better bring them. For all we know so far you invented this for improving your argument. We have enough people who are spending effort arguing for change in specific directions, so it'd be nice to have some different types of people.

 

edit: Misunderstood roast's reply to twix, thought he was saying he knew of a group that would add numbers to his side without only being put off Nerd because of being banned/bad beef with staff.

Edited December 14, 2015 by tobylane

[roastnewt]

Show us, or better bring them. For all we know so far you invented this for improving your argument. We have enough people who are spending effort arguing for change in specific directions, so it'd be nice to have some different types of people.

Bring whom, Toby? Both sides of the issue are represented in this thread.

[dizney07]

My concern is that this thread may not be the general feeling of the population of people any rule changes will actually affect.

 

While feedback is always good, more than half of the people who have commented here either aren't active anywhere other than the forums/reddit, or don't play on a server where this will actually affect them.

 

I'm all for change, but only if that change is a true reflection of the feelings of genuine players, not the loud minority that have logged barely 30 minutes collectively.

 

Most players commenting on this thread have been playing for years, and left for different reasons. I left because I really didn't have as much time to help out as I thought I would during the fall, and then S was shut down so I didn't really have a place to come back to. However this doesn't invalidate my opinion, or anyone elses opinion. Players who have played on the servers for years in the past have an idea of whats going on. We can check the forums and reddit and see that nothings changing (in terms of the rules and other things being discussed here), which leaves it largely the same as before we had even left. 

 

Personally I don't really mind the ban system as a whole. Changes that I think would benefit players more is have a set auto unban time, meaning if a player is banned for a couple days for griefing or whatever, they're automatically unbanned in 6 months or so. This way we won't have players always banned from our servers, and we won't have to see the "hi i was baned like 2 years ago lol my brothers sisters dog was playing on my account and killed 3 billion cows he really doesnt like cows lol pls unban" posts. Tempbans would be cool too. I like the idea of giving a small ban to newer players who break rules unknowingly. 

 

Overall I just want a system that doesn't revolve around the staff, but revolves around the player. Right now, bans are set by the staff member and that's that. If bans are set up to be relaxed to first time offenders and punish players who are continuing to break the same rules, we can't pin that on the staff. It's the players fault. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by dizney07

[barneygale]

Outside perspective has it's advantages and disadvantages. One quick (and a bit off-topic) point: many former staffers become much more critical of how nerd is run once they leave staff. This includes a lot of people who left the staff on good terms. cmdrtebok's frustration is a good example of it, and I've seen it from basically all the survival admins who were around in my era. There's a bit of a disconnect between how you feel nerd is performing while you're on staff vs what you see from a scrub perspective. The imbalance between the two creates friction - players think staff are ignoring them, staff think players are giving them shit over nothing. IMO the way to fix this is pretty simple - promote people through staff faster. Mod people who have only been around a few weeks, and make them admin if they've clearly got leadership abilities and time. Being cautious with tech admins is a good idea (I'll take full credit for hammering that one home!) but there's very little a rogue creative or head admin can do to fuck nerd over.

[Narissis]

I'm totally on board with the ideas of automatic timed bans and a lenient first-time ban length with rapidly-escalating punishments for repeat offenses.

 

I think the issue with MCBouncer not having a built-in timed ban expiry system could probably be worked around. For instance, would it be possible to modify the server plugin such that a mod would specify the ban length/reason within the syntax of the ban command, and for the plugin to then run a timer and issue the unban command when it runs down?

 

As for the rollback issue with X-ray bans, maybe the best solution is to compromise: get rid of the rollback punishment on blocks placed in the world, but keep the inventory wipe.

[Forever_A_Steve]

 

 

As for the rollback issue with X-ray bans, maybe the best solution is to compromise: get rid of the rollback punishment on blocks placed in the world, but keep the inventory wipe.

 

 

This is all I want

[SirTacoface]

Overall I just want a system that doesn't revolve around the staff, but revolves around the player. Right now, bans are set by the staff member and that's that. If bans are set up to be relaxed to first time offenders and punish players who are continuing to break the same rules, we can't pin that on the staff. It's the players fault. 

 

Just wanted to point out that, this is really well said. I agree that we should make it as such, it also gives staff a little more rest and less pressure to apply punishments.

 

The imbalance between the two creates friction - players think staff are ignoring them, staff think players are giving them shit over nothing. IMO the way to fix this is pretty simple - promote people through staff faster.

 

I certainly hope players do not think staff is ignoring them. Honestly, if you feel this way, please PM me so we can talk this out, because if that's the case, we're obviously not doing our job correctly.

 

Now, I feel like "promoting" (I know it's not a promotion but I get what you mean) them faster could lead to slight complications. Like me for instance, I made it through to Creative Admin pretty quickly, and was left empty handed as the only one running the place, and had NO idea how to do anything. It was difficult and not at all the same as being a moderator, and that made some slight complications for me as an Admin and the players playing at the time. Obviously nothing went to hell and we're all good, but the rapid "promotions" is hasty and could make for some potentially unwanted situations.

 

Also, It's not that I don't trust newer players, but I feel like "modding them within the first few weeks" wouldn't be a great idea. Many new players either do not show any interest to want to become staff or they simply just don't know how nerd works and feels yet. I think the system we have now works fine, regarding the modding of players, since the pool is small again. If we modded everyone at that rate, we wouldn't have any normal players, and we have all timezones covered pretty well, with the exception of Australia (slightly).

[barneygale]

Not claiming that staff are ignoring people now, but we've had alternating good/bad leadership for years, and it's not good to have long periods where you have simultaneously poor and unaccountable leadership.

 

If anything I think having faster promotions and a more fluid staff would make it more likely that a new admin would get the help they need. Good admins will stay around as long as they do currently, whereas bad admins get brought back to moderator and another person trialled in their place. This will keep leadership quality up and make everyone want to stick around longer and train new joiners.

 

Regarding modding new players quickly: if someone has joined the server and has played pretty consistently for a few weeks, a couple of hours of training should be enough to get them up to speed. I didn't even get that - I didn't know about /lbrb for several weeks. I was made mod with a bunch of people, and none of us had played nerd for very long. All of us went on to become admin. You really don't need a lot of knowledge or experience to moderate or run a minecraft server - you need solid management and displomacy abilities.

 

Regarding coverage: that's good to hear, but you're still missing about 4 admins! don't faff around like we used to; prefer players with time and enthusiasm over well-vetted and long-serving players

[EeHee2000]

Not claiming that staff are ignoring people now, but we've had alternating good/bad leadership for years, and it's not good to have long periods where you have simultaneously poor and unaccountable leadership.

 

If anything I think having faster promotions and a more fluid staff would make it more likely that a new admin would get the help they need. Good admins will stay around as long as they do currently, whereas bad admins get brought back to moderator and another person trialled in their place. This will keep leadership quality up and make everyone want to stick around longer and train new joiners.

 

Regarding modding new players quickly: if someone has joined the server and has played pretty consistently for a few weeks, a couple of hours of training should be enough to get them up to speed. I didn't even get that - I didn't know about /lbrb for several weeks. I was made mod with a bunch of people, and none of us had played nerd for very long. All of us went on to become admin. You really don't need a lot of knowledge or experience to moderate or run a minecraft server - you need solid management and displomacy abilities.

 

Regarding coverage: that's good to hear, but you're still missing about 4 admins! don't faff around like we used to; prefer players with time and enthusiasm over well-vetted and long-serving players

I agree with everything in this post, especially faster promotions. Going back to the whole "why isn't Zomise an admin" line of reasoning has a lot of credit to it. 

If one person believes that being moved to moderator is overly tedious for what it is, it's me - not to imply I was ever fit for moderator, which I now see I wasn't. 

As someone pointed out earlier, the server seems to be treated like the big community it was a few years ago, whereas now it's far smaller in scale. 

Let's be honest with ourselves, people don't need to be hardcore, non-stop helpful players for months to moderate nerd.nu as it is. Some leniency would go a long way. 

I'm very surprised temp-bans aren't a thing yet. That was being discussed many, many months ago, likely over a year ago; why hasn't any decision been made on it? The proposed idea in this thread of 'temp-bans for newbies/first-time offenders' is very solid. 

[Narissis]

Honestly, I still don't know how to use most of the mod tools or how to issue really any disciplinary action at all. :P

 

I think part of that comes down to the infrequency of modreqs that actually require more than a water flow or protection. I just don't get the opportunities to practice.

 

...well, especially not lately since I've been MIA. *Cough*

[XkinOEC]

Like me for instance, I made it through to Creative Admin pretty quickly, and was left empty handed as the only one running the place, and had NO idea how to do anything. It was difficult and not at all the same as being a moderator, and that made some slight complications for me as an Admin and the players playing at the time. 

 

You certainly didn't take much help from those who despite never having the position, could have helped you the most... You could have also insisted that someone get "promoted" who had nothing but good intentions for the Creative server (such as the entire group of moderators who generally played nothing but C at the time of your promotion), much of the group who had sat there waiting on higher up staff that never came online to notice them for... years... *cough cough* But who am I to speak? By the time I was even given moderator position, i was a

well-vetted and long-serving player

and apparently very bad at doing the job...

 

I'm all for faster promotions, nothing is worse than a player being a constructive member of the community welcoming each player to the server with open arms and a willingness to help them each day only to wait over a year for anyone to even consider them for the position because they are pegged as "too new" because our staff are too inattentive to their potential... or existence... But for anything above moderator, a line should be drawn... "Too New" should apply when the staff member going up to admin is not even fully aware of the moderator commands they have access to/how/when to use them... But that goes back to training and communications which for quite a while we didn't have.