Jump to content
cmdrtebok

Regarding my last thread

Recommended Posts

It is locked so you guys get a new post:

 

I was mad because I wasted about 25 minutes digging out my horse after being greifed only to get a late response and incredibly inane questioning about breaking a wood halfslab on the road. This was the day before my vacation and a time I was looking forwards to playing only to waste it digging up.

 

If you actually look at the chat when I figured out Zomise wasn't going to help I told her to forget it and close the req, she refused that and bothered me when I was already mad until I told her to fuck off. That is the part I really meant by you guys suck at modding. 

 

Look fine, you have no capacity to tp out horses but why not. You say you can't spend all day tping horses? Do you guys not have any discretion? I have a large build on the server and am generally cooperative and I lost 30 minutes of time because I was greifed how is this good modding? Why is it we had one community meeting in months and it was dominated by user issues of people being upset about how you guys mod and about the rule regime you guys have set up? 

 

The exact example here is why the fuck not to protect under a city like Rose, there is literally no downside. Even making people consider putting fences underground is absolutely inane.

 

When we started this server the ENTIRE POINT WAS FOR THERE TO BE NO BULLSHIT 

 

AllnaturalX in particular hated being jailed when you start to read rules no one cares about for a tp or whatever, yet here we are a few years later, using my donations in his name with a spawn where you are jailed until you find the inane trick to get out. That sucks. The rules are supposed to be really simple "Don't be a dick head" why is there this sprawling constitution? If you don't like rule lawyering fucking ignore those people but when players who have dedicated a LOT of time and a LOT of money to this institution only to waste 30 minutes digging out a horse you cause me to lose confidence. I will never give you guys another cent until this is fixed. Sure I am not one of the largest donors you have but I mean I spent about a thousand dollars over 4 years and I have a locked thread and a dick response from Zomise to show for it. Thanks

 

You guys have so many mods and no one around to help, there is a large amount of red tape involved which is rediculous. Fine you have no plans on changing that. I'm so sorry to see this end like this.

 

 

 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also where the fuck are the head admins. Kick out people who don't play.

 

Edit I would like to have a conversation but looking at the last thread you guys lack the capacity. I am happy to discuss too if we can actually come to a conclusion that will be acted on. Otherwise you can add this to the last thread of lock this if you want. This is my peace and I wanted a place to be able to say it. Thanks.

Edited by cmdrtebok
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Former Staff

We take interactions with staff being viewed as below standards seriously as we want to make sure we're being fair and trying to improve themselves.

 

I looked through your engagement with Zomise, who was extremely patient with you, despite the way you were condescening, rude and by your own admission, told her to fuck off when she was trying to seek clarification for your modreq to better help you.

 

Given your furious rant here, I expected better from you, especially someone who has been in the role before and knows what it can sometimes be like on the receiving end. Fortunately everyone else in the community is lovely, you however are not and we will not tolerate anyone being spoken to like this, staff or not, it stops now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Former Staff

Thanks for your shitty response. Your fake nicety is tiresome. 

 

Good bye

 

An apology to Zomise would go a long way because underneath all the shouting I think you have some valid discussion points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look man, I am sorry to her specifically it wasn't her fault that this has gone so sour. I am not a nice person and when I ask someone to leave me alone and forget something its generally best policy to do so. She bore the brunt of 30 minutes of wasted time and extreme disappointment. So yeah Zomise I am sorry however, I'm not sorry for my threads and they aren't actually directed at her

 

Guys, when we designed the admin and mod system the community was much bigger. The players are gone but the bureaucracy remains. 

 

You say everyone is lovely but that isn't the experience of players on the server. The trolling in the chat goes unchecked often and actual discussion (you know the kind of stuff that builds community) is censored for being "political" or "take it to clan chat"... That is not how you build a community server. I'm constantly being treated by your mods this way for no reason, so yeah after wasting time and already solving my problems sometimes people aren't amenable to being asked questions. The situation was really really clear if someone dug that hole to role it back or otherwise tell me there is nothing you can do. That is a better way to handle things.

 

Everyone here so so worried to rock the boat no one sees that it is sinking. Barney's thread about "we lost" was over a YEAR ago and nothing was addressed. I'm not sitting here waxing romantic about the past, I actually until last week played here, donated, followed the rules, helped out new players when I could so yeah I'm upset when no one can help and all discussion goes into a black hole.

 

I didn't find out about the Go server until it was already dead. Survival is gone. What is really good? 

 

It is funny Barney replied to my last thread, the funny thing is I have always agreed with him but not his methods. I haven't opened up a subreddit to call you guys out nor am I signing into systems with passwords that should have been changed. I just want to see you guys actually do something, ANYTHING to change the course you are on.

 

-Ditch the server/head admin thing, have more just plain admins. Why isn't zomise an admin for example? Are you going to wait for another person who helps out to burn out before promoting them?

 

-Understand people disappear, remove them

 

-Make the modding more automatic

 

-Don't promise what you can't deliver

 

I mean I've seen so many meetings and threads that go no where. This is another one. Yes I have emotions, sorry. My time is extremely limited and I'm dedicating it to this, obviously I care but frankly after 6 years it looks hopeless until some of the admins here change the rules whole sale. 

Edited by cmdrtebok
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel I should attempt to address some of your concerns, specifically the ones to do with P.

 

 

Look fine, you have no capacity to tp out horses but why not. You say you can't spend all day tping horses? Do you guys not have any discretion? I have a large build on the server and am generally cooperative and I lost 30 minutes of time because I was greifed how is this good modding?

 

 

We have moderators to help players with things that are impossible for them to do manually, like escape a hole in a protected region, or get their builds protected or water flowed. Mods aren’t there to help with things people can do, but don’t feel like doing, like digging a horse out of a hole in an unprotected area, or helping them find their way out of a ravine.

 

 

Why is it we had one community meeting in months and it was dominated by user issues of people being upset about how you guys mod and about the rule regime you guys have set up?

 

 

Feel free to point out examples of people complaining about that in the meeting recording, available here. Most of the discussion was about various issues such as how we’re handling land claims (which is a new thing and we’re still working out the kinks, so the feedback was encouraged) and things people can do to help reduce lag on the server (don’t keep large numbers of mobs/villagers, limit autofarms, etc.) We also discussed things players would like to see on the servers, all of which we took note of and are considering.

 

 

AllnaturalX in particular hated being jailed when you start to read rules no one cares about for a tp or whatever, yet here we are a few years later, using my donations in his name with a spawn where you are jailed until you find the inane trick to get out. That sucks. The rules are supposed to be really simple "Don't be a dick head" why is there this sprawling constitution?

 

 

The rules are extensive because players have always found ways to fuck over other players, and the rules are amended to prevent that. We got rid of the “don’t be a dick” rule as an overarching one because everyone complained that it was “too subjective” and that “the mods are abusing it”. We can’t have it both ways.

 

Part of the big problem with that is people see “don’t be a dick”, but have different interpretations of what “being a dick” means. That’s why we have so many rules that spell out, quite plainly, exactly what “being a dick” is.

 

As for there being too many rule signs for people to read, yes, we know. We’re changing that starting with next rev.

 

 

If you don't like rule lawyering fucking ignore those people but when players who have dedicated a LOT of time and a LOT of money to this institution only to waste 30 minutes digging out a horse you cause me to lose confidence.

 

 

If we ignore those people, we get more threads like this one complaining that we don’t listen to people’s concerns.

 

 

You say everyone is lovely but that isn't the experience of players on the server. The trolling in the chat goes unchecked often and actual discussion (you know the kind of stuff that builds community) is censored for being "political" or "take it to clan chat"... That is not how you build a community server.

 

 

We used to moderate chat more heavily, and after complaints about being too strict about that, we relaxed a bit about it. We added an /ignore command for people to ignore people who are trolling, and we will still step in if chat is getting too out of hand. If you have any examples of super excessive trolling, please feel free to send them to one of us so we can address it. In the recent PvE Community Meeting, players actually commended us on how well chat has been moderated this rev.

 

We don’t allow political discussion in global chat because it has almost always turned into a flamewar in the past. We do allow political discussion in clanchats because they require players to opt-in to them by joining manually. That’s why we ask people to take divisive or spammy topics to clanchats, to free up global chat for other things.

 

 

I didn't find out about the Go server until it was already dead. Survival is gone. What is really good?

 

 

It’s hardly our fault if you weren’t paying attention to the forums.

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This server is now a small community and the staff still treat it as if it is the big server it was two years ago.

 

You create a divide between player and staff, and while that's the case, nothing will change.

 

 

We have moderators to help players with things that are impossible for them to do manually, like escape a hole in a protected region, or get their builds protected or water flowed. Mods aren’t there to help with things people can do, but don’t feel like doing, like digging a horse out of a hole in an unprotected area, or helping them find their way out of a ravine.

This very statement is one that supports my point. In these cases, a staff member helping the player would cause little to no work given the tools that they are provided, it would be a simple task that would help the player out and keep them happy.

 

Evolving into being more community orientated would be a good move for Nerd, and now that he is gone, there's a very good opportunity to do that.

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're welcome to present a plan of how the downsized community should look like. Don't use any previous plans, and do use the feedback that was given when they were all turned down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So from Sapphiric's comments it seems like you guys are totally cool with this. I guess I will just play single player.

 

Tobylane ugh god damn it. I know you aren't actually interested because among the many criticisms is having people who don't play involved. When was the last time you logged in?

 

However The plan is simple. No duplication of head and server admins. Have more overall plain old admins. Trust them to do the right thing, don't make people feel like they are walking on eggshells, that just delays response. If everyone is short on time its ok to have 10 or 15 admins. Just write down what it is you are doing.

 

Remove all the red tape. Get rid of duplicate services and have all discussion in the forums.

 

Move IRC out of Gamesurge. It is dead.

 

Have even more mods in total. Promote people quickly with in days/weeks of playing so they actually want to help. 

 

Ditch the custom plug ins and gameplay modes you can't support in a reasonable timeframe. Nerd.nu was always supposed to be on the latest version. We should be running snapshots so newer players will come. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://wiki.nerd.nu/wiki/Staff

 

Is this even up to date? Look I like Cyotie911 as a person and his pet alligator but like does he sign into the server? Maybe people can't get a good response around here because the people who are in charge are no-shows

 

I really want an answer as to why Zomise isn't an Admin? It isn't a promotion or anything like that, this person is always online, posting to the subreddit, running breeding programs, what are you waiting for? Cyotie911 and MrLoud who I have never met in all these years to give her some kind of anointment? Get real this is a game of blocks let people help you and the community fully.

 

Why is it Four_Down and RoastNewt can pop up Minecraft servers that are profitable with player bases when we are happy if there are 30 people playing on one server?

 

Why didn't anyone reach out and combine with "Junction" or whatever that was a few years ago?

 

How come in all this time you guys never came out with any swag, t-shirts, mugs or anything to get some money together and make people excited about this? The only physical memorial I have of this I have is the Team AVO shirts that we got as jokes when I was an admin. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The current list is http://nerd.nu/staff/ which is built from the in game permissions, I had forgotten the wiki page existed, the page very clearly links to the new one now

 

Junction wasn't combined with at the time because we weren't friends, simple as that. If we had been a little more accommodating and understanding to begin with junction wouldn't have needed to exist, but the past is just that, I hope we learn from it ( maybe this time we will? )

 

As for Zomise, I can only say that she shouldn't be an admin due to nerd.nu already having too many, not through any personal fault of hers. Lets not ponder why swag and t-shirts were never made while you were an admin either, I personally never enjoy looking at all the things I failed to do as an admin

 

I actually agree with most of post #10 fwiw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're probably going to have to get used to me, or at least people who you don't like.

 

I also like some of what you say in post 10. I don't think it's possible to stop polite, well-meaning people to feel they are occasionally walking on eggshells. I don't think it would be wise to abandon the subreddit, but I would like all meaningful discussion to be here. Red tape is vague, this seems like something you could say until we're copying 2b2t. More mods may not make the change you want, unless you want more time spent being a staff member. I saw that as a bad thing in your eyes before. More mods so fast will lead to untested people doing surprising things - not worth the hassle of dealing with that let alone the complaints I can imagine. PVE is too big to move off spigot, Creative is too optimised to be playable to move off spigot. S could, but I can't speak for what mod tools are available on vanilla.

 

The wiki is over neglected, but also undefined. Zomise, and many other long term moderators are up to the standard where past admins were promoted, but only because there was a need for more admins at the time. From what I know of their server, which is directly from them in many cases, it's pay to win and reliant on childish whims (my words). I was an active member of junction, in playing and later planning. There are planning documents I linked to at various points of S discussions and I might do that again. If I'm the only one linking to them then maybe they get discounted as stupid, but you only need to read them to see for yourself. I remember that minimalism for tshirts was important at the time the glasses logo was picked, lets use that.

 

Tebok c45y has a good point. What was wanted by the community while you (tebok, or any past staff member who is unhappy) were in a position to do things? I'm assuming you achieved some things, said no to others, and couldn't get around to a long list.

Edited by tobylane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Tebok regarding the "constitution feel" of the rules and regulations not to mention responses of staff. In the very early revs, mods and admins would zip (albeit abuse) and be genuinely glad to help the players with whatever they needed with whatever means necessary. I am not saying staff members are not willing to do the same, but the robot like responses from some just seem to separate them from the rest of the community, creating this rift between the player base and staff.

 

Sorry head admins, love you guys, but there has been minimal interaction with any servers that I have seen. I understand that head admins have lives just like everyone else, but also need to be held to a higher standard of work ethic, which includes being present to deal with server issues. 

 

Today, it takes 2 hours to get 1 modreq done with 4 players online (that's if there is a mod). There are walls among walls of text of rules that dwarf the enigma that spawn is. It should be no griefing, don't be a dick. PvE rev 1 everyone worked out their issues with minimal conflict. But when everything is spoon fed to players, what do you expect to happen when staff disappears? I have seen generations of staff come and go, and have been around longer than most of all of them, yet the changes I see on the servers today disappoint me greatly.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This very statement is one that supports my point. In these cases, a staff member helping the player would cause little to no work given the tools that they are provided, it would be a simple task that would help the player out and keep them happy.

 

Evolving into being more community orientated would be a good move for Nerd, and now that he is gone, there's a very good opportunity to do that.

 

Riding on this, keeping players happy is the key to success. You can have everything possible in a server to make it great, but if players aren't happy, they aren't going to stay. Sure you could tell blocknoob123 that they can just punch stone to get out of the ravine they accidentally fell in after spawning 5 minutes ago, or you could TP him out to where he fell, tell him "be more careful next time :)" and probably make his day. What is wrong with that mentality? It's not abuse, it's saving time and making the staff look like they actually care about the players who play here. 

  • Upvote 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding helping players, maybe a mod shouldn’t be OBLIGATED to do helpful things (or they'd have no time for anything else), but why is it forbidden for them to use their powers to be helpful to a player, like using logblock to find a base that they forgot to write down the coords before they died or something?

 
It seems like mods are only allowed to punish people, and not help them.
 
edit: I think diz and I said the same thing :)
Edited by roastnewt
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a lot of what is being discussed may come down to a misunderstanding of what moderators actually do. There have been a lot of times where we have "rescued" players when they could have rescued themselves. In the particular case above a little patience would have gone a long way to retrieving the lost pet, most people are more than happy to help out whenever they can provided they are treated with the same respect others demand of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of what moderators do is not written down in the rules as something a player can expect from them. That makes the regulations shorter, that makes less red tape. If you want predictability you need more red tape. If you want more actions by mods they need to not burn out and lastly new mods of quality the admins can trust. Some of the red tape is only there because users felt the mods weren't using their discretion evenly and requested clarity, so how do you get the evenness between players you want with the lack of red tape you want?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To clarify, Junction was even more kafkaesque than nerd was at the time. It had a lot of good ideas that could be applied to a large server (such as separation of concerns, rather than making a handful of admins responsible for everything) but with few players it died under the weight of its own bureaucracy.

 

I concur with tebok that nerd used to be a lot more player-friendly. When I was S admin we would do random giveaways, teleports, etc. nerd gradually got more uptight about that sort of thing (I remember an old survival mod - I forget her name - actually being demodded for spawning food in good faith for a random player), which is why everyone has been complaining for fucking years about how much privilege admin gets you. Despite everyone's claims to the contrary, becoming a staffer at nerd is more of a promotion than on most other minecraft servers, principally because players have no say in any decision making.

 

This discussion has happened 10,000 times already and no positive change has come of it. The only thing that ever affects nerd either positively or negatively is if we happen to get either a good or bad set of head admins. My little birds tell me the current bag is a mixed one, with Mrloud15 (who was never even moderator material) somehow clinging to head admin while working to undermine those around him. I'm hoping that sooner or later we'll get a set of head admins that realises it's better to promote people who shitpost occasionally and have issues with the current staff than a bunch of yes-men who think nerd's gradual haemorrhaging of players is just fine.

Edited by barneygale
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I concur with tebok that nerd used to be a lot more player-friendly. When I was S admin we would do random giveaways, teleports, etc. nerd gradually got more uptight about that sort of thing (I remember an old survival mod - I forget her name - actually being demodded for spawning food in good faith for a random player), which is why everyone has been complaining for fucking years about how much privilege admin gets you. Despite everyone's claims to the contrary, becoming a staffer at nerd is more of a promotion than on most other minecraft servers, principally because players have no say in any decision making.

Nerd used to be a lot more player-friendly for some people and player-unfriendly for others.

The complaints about staff privileges were the reason why we now have a (relatively speaking) more "uptight", less "player-friendly" admin and staff team in general. The players who profited from said benefits were, surprise surprise, much more likely to be friends with staff. Today we put an emphasis on fairness, compared with the "fun" things staff used to do, up to spawning stacks of golden apples and unobtainable items on S - to some players and not others, mind you. Today we have fun additions to the game that apply for everyone, for example the holiday events that happen on P. The number of players who wish to return to this past culture, exemplified in mindsets such as a cadmin strongly desiring admin-only worldedit for personal use, is undoubtedly very small. The current culture makes it so that staff play the same game as everyone else - no freebies, no one-ups on the general playerbase. The number of staff forcibly removed for abuse of powers today is significantly lower, almost negligible, than in this idyllic past you point to, despite being more "uptight" about it. So when you say staff on nerd is MORE of a promotion than on most other minecraft servers, I can't even conceive what you're talking about.

You also betray your unfamiliarity with nerd.nu by throwing shade at mrloud as a head admin when he is in fact a moderator. Literally no one thinks the gradual decline in player numbers is a problem to be ignored - there are just many complex questions on how to fix it, with differing opinions abounding even within the head admin team itself. It's rather foolish to think you can waltz in and comment with insight on the state of affairs when you rely on your "little birds" who probably don't even participate much either.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You also betray your unfamiliarity with nerd.nu by throwing shade at mrloud as a head admin when he is in fact a moderator.

He silently stepped down last week, hardly surprising that not everyone is aware of the change.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nerd used to be a lot more player-friendly for some people and player-unfriendly for others.

The complaints about staff privileges were the reason why we now have a (relatively speaking) more "uptight", less "player-friendly" admin and staff team in general. The players who profited from said benefits were, surprise surprise, much more likely to be friends with staff. Today we put an emphasis on fairness, compared with the "fun" things staff used to do, up to spawning stacks of golden apples and unobtainable items on S - to some players and not others, mind you.

Oh please. It's a symptom of management's failings if you can't tell the difference between feeding/tping a noob and spawning items for clanmates. It's a lazy and cowardly staff that applies all its rules to a tee, even when thought and a little flexibility would be to the benefit of the player and the server's reputation.

 

Today we have fun additions to the game that apply for everyone, for example the holiday events that happen on P. The number of players who wish to return to this past culture, exemplified in mindsets such as a cadmin strongly desiring admin-only worldedit for personal use, is undoubtedly very small. The current culture makes it so that staff play the same game as everyone else - no freebies, no one-ups on the general playerbase. The number of staff forcibly removed for abuse of powers today is significantly lower, almost negligible, than in this idyllic past you point to, despite being more "uptight" about it. So when you say staff on nerd is MORE of a promotion than on most other minecraft servers, I can't even conceive what you're talking about.

Even in my day the staff weren't given personal in-game privileges for being staff. You used your powers to exercise your duties. My point was that previously, those duties included not being cuckolded by the rules page when good judgement leads you to a different conclusion.

Edited by barneygale
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, we could certainly stand to simplify and streamline the rules. Maybe not to the extent of being overly broad in the sense that they once were with "don't be or build a dick", but enough so that players can read just a short summary to get a sense of the general standard for conduct on the server.

 

There will always be rules lawyers, and they'll always find new loopholes no matter how many revisions are made to the rules. At some point you just have to stop and say "okay, here are the rules; this is as complex as they need to be" and tell the rules lawyers "I'm sorry that you feel the staff are unfairly subjective, however the mods have been carefully appointed from a pool of players who have proven themselves fair and trustworthy in judgement. The admins will review this case to ensure that you were not treated unfairly" and then have an admin double-check the logs to make sure the interaction was reasonable.

 

I've always been fond of taking a more affirmative approach to rules, personally. I don't like to call them "rules"; I think it sounds a little too patronizing, like something you'd follow in grade school. I like "code of conduct", with terms worded positively - for instance, instead of saying "no griefing" I would say "respect other players and their builds". That's just my preference, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...