Up votes and down votes.

[Four_Down]

Let's be honest, the little red button has the same problems ascribed to it. Downvote sprees instantly get characterized as personal in all but the most unanimous of cases. At least responding allows for a conversation for the amiable among the opposition.

If people decide to take the downvote button for something they aren't, there is no defense against that.  If upvotes are being taken as "I agree", downvotes should be treated as "I disagree".

[TheRandomnatrix]

If people decide to take the downvote button for something they aren't, there is no defense against that.  If upvotes are being taken as "I agree", downvotes should be treated as "I disagree".

I already addressed this in my earlier comment(scher did as well) that if you disagree with something you need to provide a reason for your disagreeing, or support a comment that disagrees with said comment. Upvotes don't have to do that because you don't necessarily have to add anything when you agree with someone(though it's a good idea to). Downvoting detracts from discussion by encouraging disagreeing without feedback.

[SpiderMan]

I already addressed this in my earlier comment(scher did as well) that if you disagree with something you need to provide a reason for your disagreeing, or support a comment that disagrees with said comment. Upvotes don't have to do that because you don't necessarily have to add anything when you agree with someone(though it's a good idea to). Downvoting detracts from discussion by encouraging disagreeing without feedback.

 

What about the people who open your profile page and downvote every post you make?

Is that a valid use of the voting system?

 

-gsand

;D

 

Edit: Woo, It seems that person isn't downvoting my posts at the moment, lets see how long it'll last ;D

Edited August 20, 2014 by gsand

[Four_Down]

I already addressed this in my earlier comment(scher did as well) that if you disagree with something you need to provide a reason for your disagreeing, or support a comment that disagrees with said comment. Upvotes don't have to do that because you don't necessarily have to add anything when you agree with someone(though it's a good idea to). Downvoting detracts from discussion by encouraging disagreeing without feedback.

Okay, so with the current system, I downvote the comment I disagree with and then upvote someone elses comment explaining why I disagree.

Upvotes and downvotes show at a glance how many people agree or disagree with a comment.

Without downvotes, you have to make a comment entirely about how that person is wrong, which is much more confrontational, and will lead to more arguments, hurt feelings and "drama."

[BCB228]

Okay, so with the current system, I downvote the comment I disagree with and then upvote someone elses comment explaining why I disagree.

Upvotes and downvotes show at a glance how many people agree or disagree with a comment.

Without downvotes, you have to make a comment entirely about how that person is wrong, which is much more confrontational, and will lead to more arguments, hurt feelings and "drama."

I agree, its a simple system. 

[TheRandomnatrix]

What about the people who open your profile page and downvote every post you make?

Is that a valid use of the voting system?

I don't see that as a good use of the voting system, no. But I don't see what you're getting at? Removing downvotes would prevent that from happening anyways.

Okay, so with the current system, I downvote the comment I disagree with and then upvote someone elses comment explaining why I disagree.

And I think that mentioned usage is fine. Sadly an emerging problem from that seems to be people doing nothing but upvoting friends and downvoting 'enemies' without adding anything else or even considering the opposing view's points.

Without downvotes, you have to make a comment entirely about how that person is wrong, which is much more confrontational, and will lead to more arguments, hurt feelings and "drama."

That's a bit dumb really. Attacking someone's argument=/=attacking them personally. It's not a hard concept to grasp, people.

[schererererer]

Okay, so with the current system, I downvote the comment I disagree with and then upvote someone elses comment explaining why I disagree.

Upvotes and downvotes show at a glance how many people agree or disagree with a comment.

Without downvotes, you have to make a comment entirely about how that person is wrong, which is much more confrontational, and will lead to more arguments, hurt feelings and "drama."

I don't see how explanation of how/why you disagree with someone is necessarily more confrontational than downvoting. Making a comment or upvoting one that reflects your opinion allows for a progression of debate, whereas downvoting is the equivalent of just booing - it just says "I don't like this" without anyone stating why - which I find much more confrontational. Naturally, someone could make a vitriolic comment that aspires to confrontation (just as someone could go through and blanket downvote every post someone has made), but I'd rather not set the atmosphere of discourse to the lowest common denominator.

 

Without downvotes, counterarguments have to be presented or joined to show your negative opinion, an inherently constructive setup. It's not as trivial as clicking downvote, but I'd consider having to collect your thoughts and read the thread to be a benefit rather than a deficit.

[roastnewt]

And I think that mentioned usage is fine. Sadly an emerging problem from that seems to be people doing nothing but upvoting friends and downvoting 'enemies' without adding anything else or even considering the opposing view's points.

 

Do you have any evidence of this happening?  I saw this mentioned a lot in the last thread, accusing people of downvote "brigading."  How do you know that a group of people don't just hold the same opinion on a subject, and thus all vote the same way?

[slide]

They're pointless and abusable, as we saw when slide downvoted every post gsand had made until that point. No admin had enough balls to call him out on it and put up a rule against malicious use, so the 2nd best option is to remove them altogether IMO.

I had a reason to downvote every single one of his posts, please do not assume to know my motivations for my every action, I know you believe you are above reproach, with most of your dirty laundry already out in the open.

[slide]

I wouldn't be surprised if this post was also down voted, my previous two posts made after I mentioned it on that thread were also down voted.

 

 

It's EVERY post (margin of error 5%) by the same person.

 

-gsand

;D

One major concern I have about most of your posts is the excessive BOLD and CAPITALIZATION and colors. They are extremely distracting to the threads.

[Guest Former Staff]

Without downvotes, you have to make a comment entirely about how that person is wrong, which is much more confrontational, and will lead to more arguments, hurt feelings and "drama."

 

You are right Four_Down, this does happen. We're using a text format to communicate on this forum and that does mean that even with the best of intentions, sometimes there will be a misinterpretation of how someone is talking to you.

 

If someone clicks a red arrow on a post to disagree with it, I think that is fine but it should be followed up with a reply. Some people make longer posts, with many points and it can be a bit of an insult to not give the same time and effort into a reasoned response. If we all want more progressive involvement in what happens within the community, we'll need to be able to talk through ideas more. I'm sure that most of us have been guilty of not being the best we can be when responding to a post but we should strive to be better, regardless of which name is giving the opinion.

[Four_Down]

One major concern I have about most of your posts is the excessive BOLD and CAPITALIZATION and colors. They are extremely distracting to the threads.

I disagree.

 

gsands posts contain 2 characters that are formatted in that way, that is not excessive at all.

 

Your post is a perfect example of a childish and inflammatory post. Your post is also a perfect example of what removing downvotes and having to explain your issues with a post will lead to, this is much more detrimental, confrontational and generally more rude than just downvoting a post and moving on.

 

If you have a problem with someones post and think it breaks forum rules or policies, you should report it, making a post like this just adds fuel to the fire and causes more issues.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Four_Down

[slide]

I disagree.

 

gsands posts contain 2 characters that are formatted in that way, that is not excessive at all.

 

Your post is a perfect example of a childish and inflammatory post. Your post is also a perfect example of what removing downvotes and having to explain your issues with a post will lead to, this is much more detrimental, confrontational and generally more rude than just downvoting a post and moving on.

 

If you have a problem with someones post and think it breaks forum rules or policies, you should report it, making a post like this just adds fuel to the fire and causes more issues.

I am not referring to just his signature, in other posts he also has text that is bolded and super sized.

 

Unfortunately you are part of a group of people that takes part in vote brigades, if you see a post you disagree with you share it with your fellow mumble group and you all go downvote it together. On reddit this is called "Vote Brigading" and is bannable there.

 

 

Quote by gsand in another topic illustrative to my original point. His message is fine, but his execution is what I consider distracting and annoying.

Anyways, Back on Topic.

Stop trying to derail the thread. D:

[Four_Down]

If we all want more progressive involvement in what happens within the community, we'll need to be able to talk through ideas more. I'm sure that most of us have been guilty of not being the best we can be when responding to a post but we should strive to be better, regardless of which name is giving the opinion.

I would love to see a more positive involvement from everyone, but quite frankly, removing downvotes is very far down on the list of things that need to change before that happens and it absolutely should not be a priority.

 

For example, very few new players are going to want to join this community if they come to the forums and see certain Staff Members acting the way they are on some threads. It is awful to see, especially when other Staff Members are putting so much effort into trying to revive the servers, only for it to fail due to the actions of those Staff Members.

[slide]

I would love to see a more positive involvement from everyone, but quite frankly, removing downvotes is very far down on the list of things that need to change before that happens and it absolutely should not be a priority.

 

For example, very few new players are going to want to join this community if they come to the forums and see certain Staff Members acting the way they are on some threads. It is awful to see, especially when other Staff Members are putting so much effort into trying to revive the servers, only for it to fail due to the actions of those Staff Members.

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

[Four_Down]

Unfortunately you are part of a group of people that takes part in vote brigades, if you see a post you disagree with you share it with your fellow mumble group and you all go downvote it together. On reddit this is called "Vote Brigading" and is bannable there.

My friends and I share many opinions in common, so we tend to vote the same way, as do other friend groups, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[EeHee2000]

Anyways, Back on Topic.

[jllmprrt]

I would love to see a more positive involvement from everyone, but quite frankly, removing downvotes is very far down on the list of things that need to change before that happens and it absolutely should not be a priority.

 

For example, very few new players are going to want to join this community if they come to the forums and see certain Staff Members acting the way they are on some threads. It is awful to see, especially when other Staff Members are putting so much effort into trying to revive the servers, only for it to fail due to the actions of those Staff Members.

 

 

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

Slide, are you actually serious? Like, you want people to "stop using bold color text" and all that other stuff that "derails or distracts the thread" and then you say stuff like this. We're all a team here, staff or not, and if you're mad, this is not the way to go about it. This here, is plain not nice.

 

From the expectations of staff thread:

"When approached by members of the community, all concerns should be treated as genuine concerns, and not brushed off as trivial or drama. If you find that you can not give an answer to their concern, tell them you will find out the answer, or point them to someone who can."

 

Come on slide, I like you. Please don't go mad on me.

[TornadoHorse]

And once again, this thread has turned into a petty little argument. Seriously, stop with the bitchy comments and stay on topic. If you think what someone is saying is unjust or unfair against you, report it to a staff member or take it up with them via PM. 

 

I would love to see a more positive involvement from everyone, but quite frankly, removing downvotes is very far down on the list of things that need to change before that happens and it absolutely should not be a priority.

 

For example, very few new players are going to want to join this community if they come to the forums and see certain Staff Members acting the way they are on some threads. It is awful to see, especially when other Staff Members are putting so much effort into trying to revive the servers, only for it to fail due to the actions of those Staff Members.

 

I 100% agree with this. I really am shocked by some of the childish responses, sort it out or don't get involved. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it.

[bmx20042004]

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

I feel like this comment is ridiculous and wish I had down votes to down vote it. 

[nolanater5711]

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

I take offense to this. Everyone plays a role in how the servers are. Your basically saying players aren't trying to help the community. Without a playerbase, you would have no server to run. It's childish.

Edited August 21, 2014 by nolanater5711

[EeHee2000]

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

That's quite a hefty guarantee. Are you sure you want to make such promises? 

I'm kidding. 

But seriously, staff are here to ban people, enforce policies and the like - the community as a whole improves the servers, not one single person or a small group of people. 

[SkrapssparkS]

This is not the point of the thread.

[SkrapssparkS]

So far the community wants to just keep up votes. If this remains the same how long should we wait before changing it to that?

[BHRossman]

 

I guarantee you I am doing 10000000x more to improve these servers than you are. 

 

I take offense to this. Everyone plays a role in how the servers are. Your basically saying players aren't trying to help the community. Without a playerbase, you would have no server to run. It's childish.

 

I've kept out of these threads due to the childish nature of posts within for quite some time now, but I'm gonna have to break my silence to 10000000% agree with nolans post. 

 

From where I am sitting, it looks like your attitude here on the forums is causing just as much drama and damage to our communities reputation as your tech work has helped the servers.

 

Please get your head out of your ass and at least try to listen to what people are saying without immediately taking every damn thing as a personal attack, it isn't.