Clarification of build rules

[flameoguy]

Here's a hypothetical situation:

 

Mansion_builder is building a large(30x40) mansion in an area he marked off with signs. He is only finished with half of it:

 

The dashed lines are the plans for the mansions, the brown lines are the already-constructed house, and the red line is the area marked-off and claimed with signs. The area claimed with signs is relatively un-terraformed.

 

Mansion_builder logs off, to re-begin work tomorrow.

 

Then, House_noob logs on, and builds a stonebrick house in the middle of the reserved plot: 

 

The grey square is House_noob's smaller build.

 

When Mansion_builder logs back on, he is surprised to see House_noob's build in the middle of his home plot. He complains via modreq, and asks for House_noob's build to be removed.

 

This brings up a few questions:

What is the moderator's's verdict?

If House_noob is stubborn and decides to keep his house, will it stay?

Do larger builds have higher priority?

Do sign claims have any value under the rules?

 

Please answer and discuss below.

 

EDIT: This is for PvE

Edited October 1, 2014 by flameoguy

[jchance]

It depends on the server.

 

On Creative, if you have a land claim and you are actively building on it and someone comes and builds inside of it an admin will come move the offending build outside the land claim.  In this case you need to do a /modreq and a mod will elevate it to an admin request.   Only admins are allowed to solve land disputes and/or move builds.

 

This is only the case for active land claims with builds- if you have abandoned it (no edits in a week or more) then we may void your land claim, remove your markers, and return the land it to general use.

 

And just to clarify a land claim on creative is "An area that you have marked the borders of with the intent to build something inside of."   Since we only do protections after there is something to protect, a land claim is a way to show your intent to use an area before it is protected.

 

A sign on a hill saying "I'm going to use everything you can see!" is not a valid land claim.   You need to mark the borders so anyone moving in to the area can tell they just entered a claimed area.

[SkrapssparkS]

What jchance said, there is no rule about building in a claimed area, however doing so would be to do so knowing that your build can be moved out of the claimed area if the original owner of the land ends up using that land. Just like to point out this does not mean someone can claim a large area of land and then build small structures deliberately close to someone else's build in the claim. It has to be clear that they genuinely need that bit of land for their build. In the example you provided the player building the mansion clearly does genuinely need the land as they started their build before a house was put up and the house was put up inside the borders.

 

Edit: I thought it was a universal rule for all servers, however if this is not the case this just applies to creative.

Edited September 30, 2014 by SkrapssparkS

[MasterCommaThe]

I would agree with everything above. Just to explain why the modreq is elevated to an admin: Admins are the only ones allowed to use World Edit commands for cut and paste to move a build. Alternatively, the two players may agree to the active destruction of one of the builds, at which point the task is a collaborative effort with shared ownership. Ideally the original builder will also be the one who destroys the build in question, that way it doesn't appear that one player is destroying another player's build in our log records, which has otherwise been known to cause confusion for observing moderators in the past. 

[LadyRavenOwl]

This brings up a few questions:

What is the moderator's's verdict?

If House_noob is stubborn and decides to keep his house, will it stay?

Do larger builds have higher priority?

Do sign claims have any value under the rules?

 

Please answer and discuss below.

 

I do believe I have heard a little about what has potentially brought this subject up.

 

This apparently varies depending on the server.  On C, they move the build.  On S, one player has to take down their build as according to log block and what an admin says.  On P, I have heard that it doesn't matter; if House_noob refuses to move his house, then it stays.

 

That all said, only admins can move builds or decide how it is ruled on all servers.  Land disputes are not handled by moderators.

 

Build size is not typically the deciding factor, it's all about who was there first.  As for signs, on survival, you must put blocks up around your area and have a sign some place that says you're claiming the area.  On Creative, it's more about marking the whole area and building in the marked area.  On P, I feel like it would be very similar to the S rules but you can't get an area protected until you build on it.

[Difficult1]

One question i have is (p specifically) if a town mayor has the right to modreq to move a building.

Lets say there is a building in a town that is complete, follows town rules, and is not breaking rules what so ever.

Are mayors allowed to say "oh this person hasn't logged on in a while, move it" (without intent to build anything on the land)

[SwitchViewz]

From my understanding of the build removal rules on PvE, this is how it works.

 

In the example provided by flame, there is no such thing as land claiming on PvE. Therefor, if someone were to build that grey building there, it is there to stay. You can modreq for a land dispute or to have it moved, but if it is a legitimate and non derpy build, then it will most likely not be moved or removed.

 

Another example, if a town lays down roads in a square, and there is a gap of 30 blocks between 2 roads, if a player comes along and builds a house there that is not apart of the town, the house is there to stay. It is a complete and legitimate build and does not break any rules, therefor it won't be moved, despite any signs, land claims, or anything of the sort.

 

In difficult1's example, it is a complete and legitimate build and therefor will not be removed. Much like the case of the Rose City PvP Arena last rev, it was a complete and legitimate build, therefor it was not moved and/or no one was givin build permissions to it.

 

Admins please feel free to correct me on any of this, this is just what I understand on how it works and what I have heard.

[dizney07]

From my understanding of the build removal rules on PvE, this is how it works.

 

In the example provided by flame, there is no such thing as land claiming on PvE. Therefor, if someone were to build that grey building there, it is there to stay. You can modreq for a land dispute or to have it moved, but if it is a legitimate and non derpy build, then it will most likely not be moved or removed.

 

Another example, if a town lays down roads in a square, and there is a gap of 30 blocks between 2 roads, if a player comes along and builds a house there that is not apart of the town, the house is there to stay. It is a complete and legitimate build and does not break any rules, therefor it won't be moved, despite any signs, land claims, or anything of the sort.

 

In difficult1's example, it is a complete and legitimate build and therefor will not be removed. Much like the case of the Rose City PvP Arena last rev, it was a complete and legitimate build, therefor it was not moved and/or no one was givin build permissions to it.

 

Admins please feel free to correct me on any of this, this is just what I understand on how it works and what I have heard.

 

So if I go through and clear/flatten my 200x200 block square of land, and someone else decides to build right in the middle, I can't do anything about that? That seems a bit silly that all my time and effort went to clearing land for another person.

[Rokku117]

So if I go through and clear/flatten my 200x200 block square of land, and someone else decides to build right in the middle, I can't do anything about that? That seems a bit silly that all my time and effort went to clearing land for another person.

We had a discussion with a couple mods and Padmins the other night and this is what they told us.

[roastnewt]

So if I go through and clear/flatten my 200x200 block square of land, and someone else decides to build right in the middle, I can't do anything about that? That seems a bit silly that all my time and effort went to clearing land for another person.

That doesn't sound right. If you flattened the land, then you "built" that land, and they're building on top of your build, which has never been allowed. (Disclaimer: I am not a mod and am talking out my ass)

[MasterCommaThe]

I am a C mod and what roastnewt said is how I would handle it. Your clearing of the land is "development", thus they are building within a previously established build. I'd expect a land dispute, which would be elevated to an admin, would result in the build being moved. On S I'd expect the same thing, but I'm not an expert on their rules, though  I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[thelethalkind]

Dealing with this issue in the past on PvE, we generally discuss amongst the players, and usually the player who encroached on another players build area agreed to have their structure moved.  It's never really been an issue, people are usually reasonable.  That being said, rules on PvE state:

 

• Don't build very close to other players' structures; be sure to leave some space. Buildings that violate this rule may be moved to a new location without warning.

 

http://redditpublic.com/wiki/Rules#PvE

[dizney07]

I am a C mod and what roastnewt said is how I would handle it. Your clearing of the land is "development", thus they are building within a previously established build. I'd expect a land dispute, which would be elevated to an admin, would result in the build being moved. On S I'd expect the same thing, but I'm not an expert on their rules, though  I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

 

On S, if someone builds in another persons build they're asked to remove it. If they don't within a certain amount of time, it's removed. Of course the admins handle it, but that's just how it's worked (not counting this past rev where griefing was allowed so no claims existed).

[buzzie71]

Since a Padmin has yet to weigh in (we've been somewhat busy, sorry :S):
 
The way land disputes have been handled in the past (and currently) was, we usually expect the two parties to first try to resolve the dispute on their own, with admins at that point trying to facilitate discussion.  If nothing comes of it, then final resolution of the dispute falls on the admins.  Each dispute is handled case by case (and thus I hesitate to give a particular answer for this hypothetical situation), but we take note of many factors including, but not limited to:

• who built/expanded where first
• effort put into the build
• location of the disputed area

As a general rule, as lethal points out, players should not be building on top of or unusually close to other players’ builds without permission in the first place - and this is one of the things we consider as stated above.  We do and will remove builds that do this, but most land disputes that have come up now and in the past are not always this clear-cut.

Edited October 4, 2014 by buzzie71
Removed text color

[S_W]

I have been curious about this as well.   Since I head up CARBON for PvE I deal with issues like this often.  We cover a lot of land so I expect that sometimes builds will interfere and for the most part, people are reasonable.  What I have a problem with is when people end up building something butting right up against our platforms or build a path to our platforms.  We work hard to make our platforms mob proof and when people do this it gives a path for the mobs to get to the platform.  Many times, I don't find this for awhile since we cover such a large area.  

 

 

What I'm wondering is what can be done about these paths and buildings.  The paths are usually pretty easy to handle, but the buildings usually aren't since they are so large.  

[schererererer]

What I'm wondering is what can be done about these paths and buildings.  The paths are usually pretty easy to handle, but the buildings usually aren't since they are so large.  

If your main concern is mobs being able to get onto the platform, asking for region protections to cover a block or two around it should usually do the trick. If someone builds right up to the platform before you're able to get a protection, you can do the standard procedure of getting in contact with them to negotiate, and modreq'ing if that pans out.