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cdmrtbeok

"Goodbye" posters should be banned when they insult the community.

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Thats it. We need to stop allowing people to stir up shit with "good bye" posts and then allow those same people to return and return to stir the pot. I'm not going to hide my intentions Twixilis and Barneygale in particular are guilty of this. Enough is enough. 

 

Edit: Nice goodbyes are fine, "I'm in school" etc. Just the shit stirrers. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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I 100% agree. Those posts just stir shit and aim to attack whoever's on the person's hitlist. Nothing productive comes out of those posts or even that behavior. 

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Thats it. We need to stop allowing people to stir up shit with "good bye" posts and then allow those same people to return and return to stir the pot. I'm not going to hide my intentions Twixilis and Barneygale in particular are guilty of this. Enough is enough. 

 

Edit: Nice goodbyes are fine, "I'm in school" etc. Just the shit stirrers. 

 

Yeah, a few posts are essentially the following:

 

I WILL NO LONGER BE PART OF THIS COMMUNITY!*

 

* DIsclaimer: The word Community in this context is defined as a specific mumble channel, the Whiskey Bar.

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Emotions get the better of people, sometimes. Get too heavy-handed with punishment and it never goes well. One series of unfortunate events, and even the nicest of players can descend into a fit of destructive rage. Doesn't nessecarily mean that they should be permenantly removed from the community.
People should do their best to control themselves though, of course.

Edited by Pyr0mrcow
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You have to be able to control yourself in this world. I think if you do that you should get banned and have to go through the appeal process like anyone else. Repeat offenders will have higher consequence. 

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If they do something actually banworthy, sure...but people should be able to take at least a little flak. It takes so little to cause a burst of outrage. And I'm talking about both ends of the issue, there. The issue is general rather than something that staff should jump into and regulate on its own special terms. Attitudes ought to be adjusted, and that should be done by the community. If someone really is just stirring the shit for the sake of doing so, then their arguments tend to be flakey, and it's simple to counter or completely ignore them, removing credibility and making them less likely to make such arguments in the future. If that isn't the case, than it's possible that there's more to said argument than shit-stirring.
Someone knocking an organization is actually a pretty common thing. No reason to criminalize it unless it's incessant to the levels of spam/harassment, includes heavily derogatory terms, ect. If any of those are true, then yea, go for it, in those cases.

Calms heads save lives. Er, accounts, I guess.

Edited by Pyr0mrcow
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I both agree and disagree. There are times when it's clear goodbye posts are just for attention, but there are times when these quitting posts raise very important questions. Tharine's leaving post was one of the most controversial there has been at nerd and it came at a time that the community was being terribly run. Her post exposed this a bit and, with such an influential member of the community leaving because of it it showed that things really were wrong.

In all honesty, I think the leaving posts will sort themselves out if the community is run better, and I think that is the case. There are still some glaring exceptions and those should and will be treated as such, but I don't think that's a reason to disallow all

Leaving posts that might bring up something of a controversial nature. Again we've gotten better recently, but when someone has a problem with something, that doesn't mean it's drama and that we should brush it off as such.

I'm all for the clearly obvious troll leaving posts and the downright disrespectful to be removed but we should always consider that what they're saying might be true and not just shit-stirring.

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Although barneygale's farewell post may have been a bit abrasive, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing; sometimes beating around the bush is ineffective. I believe that barneygale had every right to voice his criticisms, just like anyone else. When someone silences opposition, things become stagnant, and any problems that exist will only perpetuate and/or escalate. Nothing changes unless someone starts a discussion about a problem, and barneygale took the initiative to do exactly that, by providing several 'sensitive' issues that he felt needed to be addressed. I would not call this: "shit stirring".

I actually applaud barneygale for not sugarcoating anything, as I feel the community could use more of that. I may not completely agree with you, cdmrtbeok, but what you are doing right now is a great example of that.

What I 'do' agree with you about, cdmrtbeok, is the ridiculous amount of leniency shown towards troublesome players who are allowed to continue being a part of this community. Some people could write short novels with the sum of their ban appeals, and yet they're still here. I feel that this leniency has slowly deteriorated the community and driven away mature players who are fed up with these individuals. It is blatantly obvious that some players will never learn their lesson, and it is futile to continue granting them opportunities to redeem themselves.

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I agree with Sir_Walmsley - beating around the bush is something nerd does far too much in hindsight. 
Whilst I'm not actually one of the people that 'left' in a fit of rage, I do believe that insulting people one final time is something that ought to be allowed to the point where it becomes harassment or plainly breaks a rule. 
I know a lot of us here hold some pretty deep-set grudges against certain people, and in all fairness expressing those grudges could help nerd in some way. 

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I don't like it, but the vast majority of people feel they can only say some things when they are really on the way out. Some of those things lead to decent discussions. This doesn't apply to people who are banned and don't plan to appeal.

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We are supposed to be friends here. If you are holding grudges and you can't play along then that is the crux of the problem. I'm not going to deny there are certain people that rub me the wrong way. A quick /ignore command fixes this. If you need to go out in a blaze of glory then you shouldn't be welcomed back that is all I think. If you can only say things on the way out, do yourself a favor and don't say it, just leave. A deserted server is preferable to the constant hand wringing that we do here. I hate it that the few times a month I have time to pop into mumble people are often talking about another stupid drama post. That is what makes it unbearable for the people who want to stick it around, at least to me. 

 

You are right about barneys post not being outright insulting. It is when you couple it with the crusades, the bans, the people crying and his general air of martyrdom and shouldering that I kind of inserted this into his general pattern of incitement and obsessive behavior. Twixilis called us all losers, I never even met this person. Tharine's post is not an example of what I am talking about but I think that whole incident should have been handled better, differently and more openly and not count on things happening like this again in the future. I wish she would have done that info dump well before she was ready to say fuck it all. I'd prefer people to stick around. Although over all nothing was accomplished yet again other than further eroding confidence in the server.

 

I get it that some people are upset but I'm of the opinion that the tactics here on both sides, player base and staff, make it worse. In reality I get it we are all a bunch of people who would prefer to sit inside and play video games and maybe not all of us have the greatest amount of social grace. That being said we shouldn't allow too much negativity to permeate the entire culture because it becomes a self fulfilling cycle. 

 

I am not on the staff I am just a player. When I get an idea I just post it. I don't make the leader boards I bet because I work about 60 hour weeks but when you calculate how much of my free time I dedicate towards this video game it is probably a larger percentage than many others. So what I mean to say is that I really care about this and don't want to see it die because some people want to stir the pot in a blaze of glory then be allowed to come back and basically concern troll us. It has been going on forever. 

 

Remember, the staff and admins have no real power over this place. It is all built on social contract. Sure they can issue bans or whatever but this isn't supposed to be permanently adversarial. This is what needs to change before anything else.

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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Apparently the word 'community' now means a small handful of people that don't see eye to eye with you.

One of my gripes with the way these situations are handled is that instead of putting the opposing side together to communicate and come to an agreement, we instead censor everything everyone says. Just let things run their course and stop treating ever single god damn conversation or tussle that everyone has as drama. Honestly, it's gotten really old, people toss that word around as if they depended on it.

One example that I had was after I got in trouble on C, after being reprimanded by jchance, I started to have a conversation with him about the way things are run, and parts that I don't agree with. Whilst to jchance and myself we were having a civil discussion, the rest of the chat was spouting nonsense about 'tension' and 'drama' simply because their view of whatever I said in chat changed because I had antagonised jchance prior. That's exactly what happens with everyone else, X person got banned, X person want to discuss it with someone because they felt it was unfair, X person logs into IRC and suddenly everyone pulls out their drama shields to fend off X with their instigating nonsense. What we should be doing is letting X person talk about it, and understand why such and such happened. Instead of shutting them up and further prolonging their bans simply because they got pissed off.

One thing that comes to mind are the derailing threads that like to pop up every now and again, what usually happens is one person says something that someone else doesn't like and it immediately becomes an all out war between the two and anyone else withing close proximity. While all that is happening a flock of mods and admins that don't know what the exact situation is see a bunch of pictures and cuss words and start deleting and hiding posts left and right. Their reasoning being so that it can halt the argument until they read them to get an understand of what happened, the problem with that is instead of halting it, it only angers everyone involved. Even if two+ players start to derail a thread let them go at it, and once things seem to have died down, THEN delete the posts and resume the thread as normal. The only time the mods and admins should get involved is when the argument/discussion directly relates to said mod/admin, or obviously when someone breaks the rules, or threatens, doxxes, etc.

The way that everyone is supervised and monitored makes this place feel more like a daycare than a gaming community, and for players such as myself that tend to be a little more direct, hanging around here sometimes feels uncomfortable because it seems that whenever we speak up, someone is already hovering above our heads to stop it. We're all mature enough to be completely responsible for our action, but they way we're treated certainly doesn't make it seem as such.

I'm all for improving things here, but we really need to look over the way things are being run and work on finding a way to improve them.

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Well in the spirit of being more direct if you feel like you are being hovered over and that everything you say makes someone mad maybe you should stop pissing people off? I mean the signature with the fuck you, you don't have to do that. And not singling you out as I don't really know you but in general the trolling as a "joke",  the edging of the rules, a general air of being adversarial. I mean a lot of the people who have persistent problems in my view seem to deserve it. 

 

I don't feel that way at all because I play the game and I bs on mumble with out making someone mad. Just be nice and this place doesn't feel like such a prison.

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 maybe you should stop pissing people off?

 a lot of the people who have persistent problems in my view seem to deserve it. 

 Just be nice and this place doesn't feel like such a prison.

As someone who is also under the ever gazing eye of the banhammer, it is easier than you think to make people mad. Simply posting, or trying to do things can lead people to anger. You say to stop and just be nice, I try to. But when there are several influential people here that tell all their friends I am a bad person, it makes for a bit of a headwind to accomplish things in this so-called "community"

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Well in the spirit of being more direct if you feel like you are being hovered over and that everything you say makes someone mad maybe you should stop pissing people off? I mean the signature with the fuck you, you don't have to do that. And not singling you out as I don't really know you but in general the trolling as a "joke",  the edging of the rules, a general air of being adversarial. I mean a lot of the people who have persistent problems in my view seem to deserve it. 

 

I don't feel that way at all because I play the game and I bs on mumble with out making someone mad. Just be nice and this place doesn't feel like such a prison.

 

It's all opinion. I don't feel like I'm being hovered over, should i? You don't feel hovered over (I guess) but I find some of what you say in this topic rather hypocritical. Details not important.

 

If you can define 'insult the community', please do. Otherwise it sounds like arbitrary censorship.

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Toby, Your post makes no sense. 

 

Also I gave two concrete examples already.

 

Edit: It isn't arbitrary its for people who insist they are leaving and they can no longer stand it then write manifestos. These should not be welcome.  These same people come back and post to the forums and subreddit after the fact with attitude and negativity. These are specific concern trolling behaviors and should be stopped. How hard is that for you to understand. Look at the locked thread about a stupid ass hot tub twixilis came back on after her manifesto for example. 

 

The thing I was talking about in that post you quoted was a response to Magnus directly and frankly it fits d3 and eehee as well.

 

EeHee, remove the thing about allahu akbar and being a twat also that is shit not funny or cute. I'm not on staff, I don't have power I'm just a person who wants to pretend he is interacting with mature adults. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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We have enough rules as is for the community. If we make certain posts able to be banned then I think it will just start a more slippery slope. If I recall you made a post that also could be considered stirring the pot when you said you were leaving the community so wouldn't you yourself be banned?

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EeHee, remove the thing about allahu akbar and being a twat also that is shit not funny or cute. I'm not on staff, I don't have power I'm just a person who wants to pretend he is interacting with mature adults. 

 

Why? It's not hurting anybody to have it there. Leave the kid alone, he has to deal with enough shit on here already.

 

I get grouped with people I hang out with simply because I hang out with them, and that in itself is a part of the problem when it shouldn't be. People automatically assume I'm going to act like them when I don't. You can't judge someone fairly by who they hang out with. But then there's the other problem - your "fun" is different from mine, and Mags, and Eehee's, and Four_Down's, and TornadoHorse's, and Tobylane's, and everyone else's. Why the hell should our "fun" be limited to what the a certain group thinks is fun? We're a community, we're gonna have our little groupies, we're all gonna find fun in different things. Yeah, I get that there are times when things cross the lines, but at this point, nobody's willing to compromise so that at least, everyone can be a little bit happy. We get ignored or not taken seriously when we're being serious. It's starting to feel like "conform to us or we ban you".

 

Fuck, I can't even say what I want to half the time because people are overly sensitive and would insist I'm trying to "start drama".

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Do you even know what allahu ackbar means? I don't appreciate the entire sentiment. 

 

Kitty, if you can't say the things on your mind with out upsetting people maybe you should just drop it. You complain about this so often this is all I actually know about you. What are these things that need to be said so much that you are being oppressed about? The answer is that its nothing and its bullshit and we should all drop it. This is a game about blocks. 

 

Frankly I don't know why you made a whole post making this about yourself. 

 

Also Josh, slippery slope is a logical fallacy

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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if you can't say the things on your mind with out upsetting people maybe you should just drop it. You complain about this so often this is all I actually know about you. What are these things that need to be said so much that you are being oppressed about?

 

The answer is that its nothing and its bullshit and we should all drop it. 

 

Frankly I don't know why you made a whole post making this about yourself. 

 

Also Josh, slippery slope is a logical fallacy

Dropping the subject is why so much is argued about here, because when some say drop the subject it really means I will no longer listen to you or your words, and you have no effect on my actions. A lot of trouble has come from this, where people in power want to drop a subject without completing it or without a reason, and because it is unfinished it goes on to create problems and the blame is given to those who wanted to finish the subject.

 

You question why she complains of not being able to say what she wants and then immediately tell her to drop it. Nice turnaround.

 

Frankly I dont know why you made this whole thread about yourself, a thinly veiled whiny thread. There is another thread called ANGRY THREAD that could have been a much better area but this was posted in the improper subforum.

 

Also thanks for letting us know you are very smart, because we can go ahead and tear your posts apart logically if thats the road you want to go down.

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This thread is about people who write manifestos claiming they are going to quit then come back to troll. This has nothing to do with her or you or anything. This is completely derailed. 

 

D3, I will not engage you again, you are abrasive and rude. I never interacted with you nor has anyone badmouthed you to me previously. You have just proved you are unable to converse with out being adversarial. 

 

Edit, to add to calling out the slippery slope as a logical fallacy it is because it is. This idea that removing some people because of out of control censorship is ridiculous. I'm not saying that we can't have people say what they want. Its that we need to stop the blaze of glory fuck you all posts. 

 

My personal opinion though if you are holding so much emotion in and you are constantly on the fence, for your own sake drop it. Just play games and talk to your friends. No one is actually oppressing anyone here. 

Edited by cdmrtbeok
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I think this is a good idea in theory, but would be unenforceable in practice.  The problem is that "insulting the community" is so subjective.  If someone has legitimate grievances that they air when they leave, for example Tharine, they run the risk of being banned under this rule.  And if a rule like this were implemented, it would likely be enforced by the people with whom they have the grievances, which is inviting a conflict of interest.

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This thread is about people who write manifestos claiming they are going to quit then come back to troll. This has nothing to do with her or you or anything. This is completely derailed. 

 

D3, I will not engage you again

 

you are abrasive and rude.

 

I never interacted with you nor has anyone badmouthed you to me previously.

 

You have just proved you are unable to converse with out being adversarial. 

All I am doing is answering your questions. I too think that people who claim to hate the community and insult it should leave instead of going dormant. This is a discussion, so of course it will go in different directions. It shows that there are deeper problems than returning players.

 

Betcha you will.

 

Abrasive is a good word for me. Abrasives make things better, but not always in the easiest method.

 

Well considering that I don't play Minecraft, prefer to stay out of IRC, and use a less-moderated Mumble server, this really is the only place to reach me easily. I dont mind being badmouthed, as it shows who goes to learn who a player is vs who believes anything they are told.

 

Im not trying to be adversarial but if you don't like me then don't. Plenty people here do, and I try to figure why.

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Thank you roast to bringing this back on topic. I get it that it is probably unenforceable in practice and I never mean to for my exact language to be entered into the rules. I am just tired of seeing the same things retreaded over and over and these sorts of displays. 

 

The point remains if you are so fed up that you want to leave just do it. The blaze of glory is childish. 

 

Well considering that I don't play Minecraft, prefer to stay out of IRC, and use a less-moderated Mumble server, this really is the only place to reach me easily. I dont mind being badmouthed, as it shows who goes to learn who a player is vs who believes anything they are told.

 

Then you have no reason to be on these forums. We don't need the input of people who don't participate in the nerd.nu community we are trying to rebuild here. Later man. 

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