CROCKODUCK Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 So just trying to clarify something, but what gives head admins the right to view private conversations? It's come to my attention that on multiple occasions, head admins have recently just been combing through logs to view players private conversations even with no rhyme or reason. Is this a common practice now a days? I always thought being paranoid was over kill but it turns out with very good reason to be concerned about privacy invasions. This isn't directed to say that head admins aren't trusted, but more of why are logs being viewed and combed over for no reason. That's my concern and that's what I'm hoping to address, and evidence can be provided if needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwitchViewz Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm curious why you would think this is even remotely a thing? You were a staff member in the past and should know just how difficult chat logs are to rummage through. I dread having to do it for a ban appeal because it is such a pain in the ass. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be doing it in my free time for "no reason". To be frank the fact that you even accuse staff of just searching through logs I find to be insulting. We are here to look out for the playerbase and the users, we don't go digging through logs for no reason. I don't think I have ever heard of any instance of a head, or any other staff member for that matter, just digging through logs for no reason in my year or so I have been on staff. I am very curious on what "evidence" you have. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torteela Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You probably should post the evidence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c45y Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is not a democracy. You don't have any rights, never have. I trust that our head admins will be discreet with whatever information they gather for whatever reasons they are doing so, all you can do is decide if you're willing to continue playing here for free while giving up any expectation that your super secret private messages won't be read. At the end of the day our governments ( mine and yours ) are violating our privacy more than this little game server, if you want to get on your high horse about privacy maybe do it somewhere that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROCKODUCK Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm curious why you would think this is even remotely a thing? You were a staff member in the past and should know just how difficult chat logs are to rummage through. I dread having to do it for a ban appeal because it is such a pain in the ass. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be doing it in my free time for "no reason". To be frank the fact that you even accuse staff of just searching through logs I find to be insulting. We are here to look out for the playerbase and the users, we don't go digging through logs for no reason. I don't think I have ever heard of any instance of a head, or any other staff member for that matter, just digging through logs for no reason in my year or so I have been on staff. I am very curious on what "evidence" you have. Your blinders are showing old friend. Here's your proof that I slightly redacted to leave other folks out of the issue but the main issue I have is that this is not even remotely the first incident where head admins "stumble" upon private logs. Again let me reiterate that this was brought up because I had my facts wrong. Does no one else wonder how often this goes on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roastnewt Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I've also had people message me about things I said in PM (To be fair, more than a year ago now). I think bored admins like to search for their own names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilexis Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 If you don't want things you say in the logs to get back to admins, say it elsewhere. It ain't rocket science. There is no privacy on nerd/the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Staff Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Here's your proof that I slightly redacted to leave other folks out of the issue but the main issue I have is that this is not even remotely the first incident where head admins "stumble" upon private logs. Again let me reiterate that this was brought up because I had my facts wrong. I think bored admins like to search for their own names. Roastnewt is not far from the truth here. Unable to log into Minecraft to check an expected mail, searching my own name to check for said mail brought up this conversation, suggesting that I was being radical in February 2015 by removing admins. Most of the time log searches are quite unpleasant to filter through as there's a lot of content in there that we try to skim through. Unfortunately some log searches we make will pick up pieces of conversations that I generally feel uncomfortable seeing and try to avoid looking at them. While they can be read by any admin with access to the logs, I understand that people still have private thoughts. This particular array of logs was very visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schererererer Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The key thing to note here is that (as far as I have ever been aware) no one has gone sifting through the logs hunting for things to "stumble upon". When searching for specific logs (e.g. lines of chat regarding a harassment complaint), often other unsavory or eye-catching information is interlaced with that which was initially targeted. In theory, admins could ignore anything seen for which they don't "have a warrant", but pretending such a viewing never happened would be quite silly - this would take a stunning level of cognitive dissonance to achieve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROCKODUCK Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'll address the second part then, why was this even an issue. Great Baltimore saw it so why was I confronted about it. Is "spreading rumors" tucked away in the rules somewhere or are we making them up as we go along now a days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schererererer Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 You don't have to address a rule violation to just talk with someone, even when speaking as an admin. Honestly, if I were repeating blatant misinformation easily demonstrated to be false with a simple glance at a calendar, I would appreciate someone letting me know so I could correct my misconceptions of facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_A_Steve Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I've just assumed that nothing here on the server is confidential and can be looked up at any time. ...pretty sure this was common sense 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROCKODUCK Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 No its not common sense and in the past this was addressed as a sensitive issue and taken seriously but since we're down to bare bones I guess it's just a luxury now so I suppose that closes out this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XkinOEC Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Crock, how would you expect staff to look into situations such as that of private message harassment? it has to be logged, and though it is unfair that Baltimore used an alternative method of finding out about in-game messages to him which nobody else can do, he is a head admin and has the right to do as he pleases since he is the top tier of leadership on the server. In the process, finding what you said, he can't just "un-see" it... Would you rather him hold an internal grudge against you about it and not confront you about the issue? He could have just as easily done that instead. Honestly you should feel lucky that it is only this, that he privately messaged you, and is willing to forgive the whole thing without even getting a response by the looks of it. I believe the privacy you're thinking exists is player to player, as in Barlimore wouldn't then go share logs publicly about the details of your private conversation(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobylane Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 No its not common sense and in the past this was addressed as a sensitive issue and taken seriously but since we're down to bare bones I guess it's just a luxury now so I suppose that closes out this case. The concept of privacy online is common sense to only a few people. People only expect it if they never gave it any thought and have little experience online, or need it to be true to suit them. We can't predict when people will change their opinion to suit their side, so we can't please everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphric Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thread locked by request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Staff Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Just posting here to make people aware that this topic is visible once more. When Crockoduck requested the discussion to end / the topic to be removed, this topic was hidden as per his request. Given the nature of the discussion, I speak for myself when I say that I feel uncomfortable with it being hidden from sight. We have also received questions asking what happened to the topic, which is not obvious given that the topic has been hidden. Out of respect for Crockoduck's request, we'll keep this topic closed but I would be interested in seeing us at some point discuss what we do and don't hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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