Long-Term Player Retention on PvE

[TheRandomnatrix]

So with the rev nearing an end(Soon^TM), and with several recent threads bringing up the concept of player retention on PvE, I figured I'd make a post. Please keep in mind that this does not reflect the official PAdmins' opinions as a whole, though we'll certainly pay attention to any ideas/thoughts presented. I also recognize some of these ideas could potentially be controversial, so please keep an open mind.

 

So with that out of the way, is long term player retention over the rev something that should be looked into, and how are ways that we could possibly go about that? Or are people fine with the general status quo of huge spike at the start that then balances out to 40-60ish 'regulars'?

 

It's no surprise that many players join for the initial rush of land, which then teeters off once infrastructure is quickly built up due to minecraft's horribly simple progression system. Would using artificial means(plugins/map design) to slow down this progression(such as is done on servers like CivCraft for example) be something that would encourage people to stick around more? This begs the question of how vanilla we wish to be. There has also been some thought towards random custom dungeons being spread out to give players incentive to explore, as well as providing challenge beyond minecraft's simple concept of PvE. 

 

Another concept brought up here and here was that players don't have things to do as the rev goes on. 

Would players be fine with for example admin endorsed community projects that give players something to do, or other means the PAdmins could provide more longterm stimulus other than an event like a 5k/holiday event/ect? Or would that take away from the spirit of the server in that everything outside of spawn is 100% player run?

 

Lastly, there's the hot topic of rev ends, and whether they should be longer/shorter, or given specific dates of ending. That also ties into player retention as revs and maps can become stale for many, which is something to look out for. However on the other side of the coin making revs too short prevents the massive infrastructure and town buildup that makes our server so great. This has been discussed many times in the past, and I'm not sure if there really is a right or wrong answer, but it can certainly bear discussing.

[SwitchViewz]

This is just my opinion, but one of the biggest problems I think is that this is a PvE Server and that the vE part is not emphasized enough. Every Rev it is generally the same thing: Land rush, build infrastructure, build city/town, host events, rev ends. I think there needs to be a much bigger focus on the "vs Environment" part. We aren't fighting other players we are fighting the environment but the environment really is not that deadly. We don't fear going outside or fear the creeper next to that building over there.

[d3north]

May I just say, we should not be putting CivCraft in such a good light. If you think we have playerbase problems, it pales compared to theirs. 

 

Other than that, one of the main reasons I have seen and had firsthand experience with is indeed the initial land grab, because the same few groups of people push aside the smaller players for their large bases to be built, or simply because an area is desirable and with a rudimentary knowledge of the rules can be easily circumvented to whatever ends they want. The elitism and cronyism of the cities creates a friendly outer shell but the subtext is a terrible future for our server as a whole.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble about that.

 

Another 5K would be great, have sponsored sections where a town or group can build and mods can connect. 

 

Revs should never be nebulous. Have a cycle of fifteen weeks, about four months. In week twelve to thirteen ask, is the server still a viable map? Is there enough interest in keeping this? Hold a vote, a five week extension for the cycle, after which the new rev starts. Do not compromise on this cycle. With a firm cycle the questions of Will the rev end soon and How old is the rev will disappear, and a good timeframe is added for events, for large builds, and for staff deadlines.

 

That's mostly what I have come up with over the time Ive been here, and I hope that nerd lives on.

[jllmprrt]

I'd like to see somewhat shorter revs; I honestly can't stick around much after four or five months so I really feel like that'd be a good length.

Minecraft needs some more PvE aspects, but maybe we could do something like reduce the strength of diamond armor so mob damage is nothing. That could also keep PvP on the server interesting.

[ultrahub]

I typically stop playing a rev when personal issues arise and I can no longer find the time to play, which leads me to find other things to do, which then makes me forget about minecraft when I do have time to play it again. For the most part I feel "left behind" in a sense when I am able to return, I see no one in my town or people I typically talk to on anymore which quickly makes me lose motivation to keep building stuff. I would start something fresh, but then I may as well wait for a new rev in my opinion.

 

All that being said, this is what I think:

1. What do you mean by slowing down progression? Minecraft has enough tedious mechanics in my opinion, I doubt adding more would help. However I am very interested in what you have in mind for alterations to the map. The last few P maps have been woefully boring, I think we can all agree that vanilla generation just isn't cutting it. There was a whole other thread about this so I won't talk about that. I am in favor of random custom dungeons, in fact, random custom anything would be interesting. Maybe find some cool ruins to explore and get some loot, or unique landmarks to make the map feel special, I don't know, but some thing like that would be nice.

 

2. I would be in favor of official community events, I don't think they would really affect the spirit of the server, but that really depends on the event I suppose. Anything to shake things up every month or so would be nice. I know I would participate in events if I have the time.

 

3. I think the rev length right now is fine, just needs an actual time table. Right now it's "maybe it's this time, or maybe it's that time", many of us have expressed we want clarification. I personally think there should be a 4-5 month maximum for revs, but that's just me.

[Pyr0mrcow]

I'm always in favor of custom dungeons around the map. I would go so far as to say that you should hide spawners in a few, in rooms built to allow the maximum spawning frequency for extra difficulty in obtaining them. Or, simply hide them in the dungeon as prizes. Some options include moving the standard bunch into dungeons for added difficulty at the beginning of the rev, or groups of 2-4 spawners in close proximity for the construction of super-grinders; or 'special' spawners, such as one that spawns Giants, potentially usable for future arena battles after the dungeon is conquered.

 

Custom map generation...I've seen it done, and I really like it. It gives variety to the server. But rather than going extreme all over, I'd say focus more on variation. Change only a few parts of the map, leave the rest vanilla.
I was a fan of Rev 4's terrain.

 

Rev length...is a strange issue. There are a lot of people who come only for the rush of the new server, to start big projects (especially transportation), then leave. But plenty of core players stick around. We've got healthy numbers now, from what I've seen. Not maximum capacity, sure, but it's a satisfying amount, and we do get new players who stay, even this late. I remember being surprised, upon returning, that there was still a player which I'd seen first joining months ago when I popped onto the server to look around and got lost on Carbon. Personally, I've found it fun building this late in. The cities are established and visitable, the rails and portals allow easy transport across the map for events and visiting other players...ect. My only desire for rev length is that, once it gets to this long, they should tell us a minimum time that it will continue to go on. For instance, a statement like "At the least, it has another month." would make people more open to building on the current rev.

 

I have seen a couple community building projects in my time on the rev, as well. I think they're good...but not if they're different from others. There shouldn't be special official status for particular projects over others. But if the staff want to start a project, support another as being a good idea, or work on one themselves? I don't see why they couldn't do that. If it brings in extra players as a result, so be it.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Pyr0mrcow

[TheRandomnatrix]

As a disclaimer: any changes to the map itself for next rev will most likely not be radical at this point. Just wanted to point that out.

 

This is just my opinion, but one of the biggest problems I think is that this is a PvE Server and that the vE part is not emphasized enough....We don't fear going outside or fear the creeper next to that building over there.

I've brought that up in the past(was around the time we were discussing hard mode) and it was an issue of contention. Some felt that PvE is more community oriented and PvE is a casual attachment, others felt that as a PvE server the E should be an aspect. Personally I feel those two are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts, and catering to both is what I hope to accomplish.

 

 

May I just say, we should not be putting CivCraft in such a good light. If you think we have playerbase problems, it pales compared to theirs. 

To clarify, I was using CivCraft as an example, not a model to base off of.

 

I typically stop playing a rev when personal issues arise and I can no longer find the time to play, which leads me to find other things to do, which then makes me forget about minecraft when I do have time to play it again. For the most part I feel "left behind" in a sense when I am able to return, I see no one in my town or people I typically talk to on anymore which quickly makes me lose motivation to keep building stuff. I would start something fresh, but then I may as well wait for a new rev in my opinion.

 

All that being said, this is what I think:

1. What do you mean by slowing down progression? Minecraft has enough tedious mechanics in my opinion, I doubt adding more would help. However I am very interested in what you have in mind for alterations to the map. The last few P maps have been woefully boring, I think we can all agree that vanilla generation just isn't cutting it. There was a whole other thread about this so I won't talk about that. I am in favor of random custom dungeons, in fact, random custom anything would be interesting. Maybe find some cool ruins to explore and get some loot, or unique landmarks to make the map feel special, I don't know, but some thing like that would be nice.

1. Currently I can and have on many occassions, reached end game in less than 24 hours. That's just by myself. Towns can reach a point where everything they could ever need is made within a week or two. Care would have to be taken to reduce tedium, but there are things that for example could be toned up or down to make the game less cheesy and easy: villagers, ore gen, mob spawning, and many others. Unique mechanics to gameplay could be introduced to be something to keep in mind that keeps you on your toes(maybe getting shot by a skelly blinds you, who knows). There are an incredible amount of variables that can be tweaked to lengthen things without necessarily increasing repetition.

[SpiderMan]

This is just my opinion, but one of the biggest problems I think is that this is a PvE Server and that the vE part is not emphasized enough. Every Rev it is generally the same thing: Land rush, build infrastructure, build city/town, host events, rev ends. I think there needs to be a much bigger focus on the "vs Environment" part. We aren't fighting other players we are fighting the environment but the environment really is not that deadly. We don't fear going outside or fear the creeper next to that building over there.

 

One of the things that I liked yet disliked at the same time were those skeletons with player heads. (forgot the name)

 

When I joined pve in order to see what's up, I thought that they were naturally spawning, but it turns out that they weren't. That was one disappointment. I think making mobs like that naturally spawning would really emphasize the VE part. You could eventually add more RPG type mobs. Maybe making the end dragon invicible too.

 

Also, one of the things that makes it hard to join once the map has started is that everything is built by spawn. Personally, I think that spawn should be part of a pre-existing,yet natural looking road system with a build radius around it, so it's easier for everyone to venture out and find land in a "good" spot easily.

Edited February 6, 2015 by gsand

[Sapphric]

 Maybe making the end dragon invicible too.

 

How are you to get out of the End? And what about the End grinder?

[Socarch26]

I'm personally fine and even support events such as the 5k, though I still feel that PvE's core should still be vanilla. I don't wish to artificially extend the progression in anyway.  

[SpiderMan]

How are you to get out of the End? And what about the End grinder?

 

"Eye of ender" portal going back to the overworld

[sschering]

As for the vE aspect.. We need more events like the Halloween one.

 

Never before have I gone out in the dark hunting mobs like I did that week. 

 

Creepers, skellies, zombies.. any pumpkin head I could lay my sword on..  

 

I still have chests full of drops and a few bricks :)

 

that was fun! 

 

How about a valentines week?  more cool drops and fireworks..

[kb2zuz]

I'm not the most active member but I've been around for a couple Revs now. I do understand the frustration of the player fall off and the desire to rev more quickly for that and at the same time I see the value in longer revs and the lifecycle of them. That said I feel spliting to Fast Rev and Slow Rev is a horrible idea as it splits the base and would only reduce the number of players (even if people did split time they'd have less time on each server). A few random thoughts that might be useful, most are based on having some way to draw people in when things slow down.

Map expansion: Build a large map but start it restricted smaller than usual (2000x2000?). After a few months expand the boarders, but don't expand them out equally from spawn. Do so in one direction so it's more of a feeling that there's new undiscovered country in that direction. Then in a few months expand again (could be in the same direction or the opposite, but the point is give one large chunk of new land instead of smaller strips around the edges). Having an expansion announced ahead of time (or on a regular schedule) could draw in people who want to see something new.

Secrets/hidden gems: Rev 11 went on forever. I remember (and my memory could be a bit flakey) but a few months in I feel participation had dropped and many regulars were not around often, and then thrawn posted teaser screen caps of a creeper spawner (that had not been found). People started looking for a week and no one found anything, so then she posted another screen of a rail line teasing that we were so close but had just missed it. For the next hours there were a bunch of us riding rails where ever we thought it might be, trying to find the area that matched to the screen shot. Finally it was found (I forget who was the hero) and we had an all night grinder building party. After that there were regular fireworks and other things. Secrets hidden in the map that we don't know about and find out about either by someone stumbling on them or by hints from admins if necessary can drum up some serious interest. Similarly the 5K and the secrets around spawn also helped kept things interested in Rev 11. Things could also be added part way through the rev.

Those are my feelings, but the beauty of the server is that there are so many different walks of life and different opinions. What I may like might not be what someone else does and the server has done well to accommodate many different types of players.

[Asterix1806]

While not a suggestion for improvement, I have noticed that PvE's player count is roughly speaking inversely proportional to the length of time passed from revision start.

Roughly speaking, p≈p°/(1+t/T½), where p is our player count, p° is our player count at rev start, t is time passed since revision start, and T½ is the time is takes for population to halve from p°.

In other words, if it takes a week to drop our player count to half, it takes two more to make it a quarter, and four more for an eighth. This seems to be a recurring trend every revision.

[Silversunset01]

I haven't been around nerd as long as some, so if some of this has been tried before I apologize.

Some ideas:

1) clearly state the end date (with the option for additional length if players vote) with some sort of large event closer to the end to give people something to work towards

2) I know for me, not having a purpose makes the game slow. And the ender dragon isn't really my cup of tea. I think additional group events would Hold people people later on. Maybe there could be some sort of building committee for each event (i e scavenger hunt, maze, 5k). The event server is amazing for large events that tend to be staff-created or lottery created, p would be an excellent place for group-sponsored events. Even little things like argoths "Sunday night violence" or white oaks "secret Santa" felt much more group-oriented and fun and gave me a reason to work toward something rather than just building.

3) netherportals. I understand not everyone can make their own, that would be chaos because we'd have them every 5 feet. But on a map this big, maybe a second ring of portals closer to the edge, I feel like i never go that far because horses are really laggy on my internet and I am not running way out to the edge is be gone all day. I love the huge map, it's just hard to access some of it.

I joined nerd because I love the community. I love being able to build things and then share them with people or share things they have done. #2 is my biggest wish, I can play minecraft in singleplayer if I just want to build. I play on here for the people.

Edit: because my phone puts weird autocorrecty things in

[ultrahub]

1. Currently I can and have on many occassions, reached end game in less than 24 hours. That's just by myself. Towns can reach a point where everything they could ever need is made within a week or two. Care would have to be taken to reduce tedium, but there are things that for example could be toned up or down to make the game less cheesy and easy: villagers, ore gen, mob spawning, and many others. Unique mechanics to gameplay could be introduced to be something to keep in mind that keeps you on your toes(maybe getting shot by a skelly blinds you, who knows). There are an incredible amount of variables that can be tweaked to lengthen things without necessarily increasing repetition.

 

That sounds very interesting, we may need another thread just for that when the time comes. (although screw skeleton blinding, I have enough issues with them lol)

[WaterSlide]

I'm glad this thread was started. I agree with the amplified 'vs Environment' element here, however there are a lot of things that have worked and not worked in the past. I'll try to be as succinct as possible:

 

I don't think we can have a serious conversation about lengthening PVE map duration unless we adjust and accommodate the needs of both new and old players throughout the course of time on a map. There was a vote on map-size in which an even larger map size was the most popular, however I think this might be a misstep when it comes to actual retention. I believe it is possible to fit all the amazing biomes with a meaningful size and distribution into a moderately sized map - it simply takes the generation of many maps to find the right one. Towns can have just as much room as they ever needed, just as they did in the past. What is happening now on PVE is that there is no time to go and see others on the map. There is far too much walking. Want to build a rail to that other town? Now you have to spend 3-4x the time and materials to build that rail, not to mention the time it takes to ride on that long ass rail. My honest opinion is that we're not without buttloads of materials and building space even with a 5K map. Further, we're all growing older, we encourage a mature player base, and as students and workers, we're all wanting for this time that we deny ourselves by increasing the map size.

 

Speaking of materials... Underground has been awesome for a long time on P. I feel like we've gotten a correct amount of plumping. However trading has changed the world of PVE in a huge way. Diamond tools are not expensive and will probably never be expensive again. However there are rare materials seeded throughout the world and rare materials that most players cannot even get. I'm not sure how we've handled trades in the past, but I think we could rehash an old concept of trade signs and have a PVE "rule of 10". Simply put: lets come up with 10 simple, but expensive trades so people can get some bling bling. Almost no one wants a diamond block house, however someone might want a few sponges for a special build or lets just say... 32 diamonds equals a wither skull or something. And who doesn't want the occasional villain who releases a wither on your town. Everyday mining, grinding, building gets old, lets get some surprises from time to time - I haven't even seen a wither on this server yet. Typically the players could make the trade sign like in days past:
[Trade]
tradepostid

 

The tradepostid would be a pre-determined, publicly posted trade identifier that you could easily see by typing /trades

Then use the item in your hand, right click the sign, to get the trade. No backsies. The idea here is to make certain things available at all times, not just for the ones who find all the dungeons and special things first.

 

Feel free to flame this post at any time.

 

Moving on, I think overland could be more interesting. There have been times that we have gone way overboard... One has to be careful with the psyche of the average player on PVE. Lots of terraforming CAN be fun, but it has to be with limitations. I'm still a huge proponent of rivers that are a little bit larger. 20-30 wide rivers as opposed to 10 wide. This allows for some extra challenges such as large bridge building and coastal creations. We could also use good mountains - not overly massive or steep, just good mountains. It would also be kinda cool to seed a little extra diamond/gold into something like that too, so maybe you'd be creating a whole society of mountain miners. 

 

Just some thoughts - maybe I'm nostalgic, but I remember some specifically fun things about PVE that could easily be put back into play.

Edited February 6, 2015 by WaterSlide

[saberfysh]

Before I go on with my ideas, I'd like to get the question of rev length out of the way. In my personal experience, many players convey in chat that they're annoyed both by the lack of clarity about the rev length, and the constant nagging from newer, uninformed players of when the next rev is, which drags down both the people who want to keep going, and the ones who don't. D3north's suggestion of having a fixed date subject to extensions by admin assessment and general vote is a decent solution to both these problems. It will literally stop the nagging, and let players plan ahead.

 

However, I'm keenly aware that a fixed schedule is not the most feasible thing to do from a technical standpoint simply because Mojang does not release new versions of Minecraft on a fixed schedule, and there are plugin updates to worry about. If Mojang becomes too unpredictable, you can only work with what is the most stable server version at the time. So, I'm okay with a combination of what kb2zuz and d3north said: Start with a modest map size (4K or 5K), and expand the map based on rev extensions in anticipation of new versions of Minecraft, adding an extra nether portal or two along the way (since nether portals are strictly the jurisdiction of PAdmins).

 

Alternatively, if you do not want to expand the map upon every rev extension and would like players to taste the entire map from the very start, then I propose a formula for PVE's map size: Rev Duration = (K - 1) months. Let variable K be the number of thousands of blocks of the map borders, meaning 8000x8000 is 8K. If you start the rev as an 8K map, you are foreseeing and thus arranging for a rev that could last for up to (8K - 1) = 7 months of play. Adjust this formula accordingly based on your observations of server activity, and keep in mind that larger maps should contain every biome and is begging for modified/realistic terrain (continents, additional water, rivers, valleys, volcanoes, penninsulas, etc.) due to the fact that minecraft's large biome world generation is currently prone to creating stale landscapes.

 

That aside, here are a number of ideas I'd like to contribute towards long-term player retention on PVE:

 

Less ore plumping, more trading/treasure hunts

What made Rev10 great for me was the incentive to explore the entire map because decent ore plumping was only at the edges. Even then, it was only for overworld minerals (such as coal/emeralds/diamonds), which is acceptable. However, adding glowstone and nether quartz into the overworld in reliably large numbers spoils the players and makes them leave even sooner than usual because they don't have to visit the nether at all, unlike vanilla. They don't even take on the E part of PVE because it's readily under their feet. Bartering and trading is a part of the PVE community and establishing relationships between people who have glowstone/quartz keeps everyone informed on how to obtain this rare nether resource. Letting the admins stimulate the market instead keeps the rev interesting. For example, in Rev10, thrawn held a Dr.Sign hunting contest involving an obstacle course, with the reward being a chest full of glowstone. Everybody jumped on that because they knew it was rare stuff in vanilla. Or, you can put trade signs for these things at spawn. You'll give players incentive to work together for resources, rather than mining by themselves and swimming in stacks of it at home.

 

Bounty Hunting

Want to rile up the server into battling the environment? Rev12 Xmas and Rev14 Halloween are good examples of that, which the admins have been good in organizing the past year. We went from simple admin hunting (poor buzzie) to all-out events like this, dropping wither skulls, player heads, odd bones, and holiday foods. It's good. Now, I suggest you guys add another dimension to that: bounty hunting. Sometime during the rev, announce a bounty on some mob for an awesome reward and watch the headcount roll. It's like PVE Lotto, only you smack 50 zombie pigmen for a chance at a beacon instead of betting 5 iron blocks. You could either have winner takes all, have a jackpot that splits, or make it repeatable for anyone who wants it badly enough. It could be 100 slimes, 300 zombies, 10 witches, or 25 bats -- you name it. Hopefully a scoreboard plugin of some kind can allow this to happen.

 

Secret Catacombs/Dungeons

Some of you may be familiar with Azumarill's Dragon Egg vault contest in Rev12. Basically, it was a vertical safe for the dragon egg, guarded by 8 piston locks, which could only be opened with passwords by clearing 8 different obstacle courses placed around the world. The fact that a single person conceived of this was pure genius, and I think a variation of this from the admins in the form of generated catacombs/dungeon shafts underground would be the kind of adventure outside of building that gets people going. You could build 4-5 of these inconspicuously with a little bit of it poking out to the surface, keeping them locked from access at rev start, and then slowly open each catacomb one by one over time, supposing the players have discovered them. They will be harder than an underground mineshaft/stronghold, and can either contain treasure, a unique spawner, or a warp to a secret place. Nothing would make a server mobilize its forces more than a dark dungeon whose treasure is guarded by 5 cave spider spawners, small riddles, and a bridge over lava. We went nuts when thrawn popped a secret creeper spawner somewhere late into the rev; we'd do it for this too. If you feel truly crazy, you could even place a book inside each one with clues to unlock a final altar at spawn which requires passcodes, a stack of diamond blocks, emerald blocks, gold blocks, and quartz to activate the "Official end of Rev" fireworks, putting the rev's fate squarely in player hands based on an admin time-released dungeon storyline. The plot doesn't even have to be that complex. Buzzie's Rev11 Unity story of a marooned spaceship producing clones to find sponge blocks scattered across the map to create R.E.G.E fuel for the spaceship is a pretty straightforward tale. The fact that he wrote so much backstory and made a giant spaceship is extra gravy.

 

It can be safely said that storytelling is what gives PVE character, and players have respected this server greatly for the entertainment value we bring to ourselves. From the Argoth-Brom nuclear rivalry, to the lava pit obstacle course in the Kingdom of Ra that killed 200 people, to Yowie's enchanted sugar cartel, tales of Lothos and Seneca as dragonslayers, playing music with Flumper on plug.dj, singing songs in Mumble, etc. Admin content such as the Unity storyline, Dr.Sign, holiday events and secret spawners all add to that. If these moments and things are shared with new players on a reasonably solid basis, I think you will see a lot more of them around.

Edited February 6, 2015 by saberfysh

[Narissis]

saberfysh's idea of having a pre-determined end date is interesting, though I'd say it would be best if left ambiguous. We could have something like "approximate new rev date" that would only be as specific as within a certain two-week timeframe or something, and then the official new rev announcement would provide the exact timing when the date approaches.

 

Regarding the whole player retention thing in general, I'm TL;DRing most of this topic so this may have already been said, but... I think the answer lies not in direct interference with the gameplay "process", but rather, in what can be added above and beyond.

 

Instead of making progress slower (which, let's be honest, wouldn't add any more than an extra day or two to the rev-start "establishment" of towns & infrastructure), we ought to have "stretch goals" for people to work toward once things are established.

 

For instance, we could have long-term tasks, something implemented by a plugin that would function as a "quest" of sorts, that would take an average player a few weeks to complete and would reward a beacon or a pot of rare blocks. MMOs do this kind of thing well; just some sort of optional timesink that people can invest hours into for a reward - not large enough to be game-breaking, but enough that the player will feel as though their time was well spent.

 

Another idea would be to offer some sort of reward for 'finishing' a build. This might help to keep players around and reduce the number of Freyhills and other half-finished towns on the map. A player could apply to the mods for this, and a mod would, in turn, inspect the build to judge whether it's honestly finished and award a prize proportionate to the build's size. This prize could be something like, say, a grant of materials to get that player started on their next project (the player could request certain things). This would help to promote the starting of new builds after a build is completed, giving players more incentive to stay around.

 

These are just a few hairbrained ideas, of course... but all part of the brainstorming process! :D

[Avi_Dangerstein]

I remember when I first started playing that the revision lengths were approximately three months, which I liked. I think the renewal process is important to holding interest.

 

That having been said, I want to raise the possibility that declining server population density may (at least partly) be a result of Minecraft aging as a game. As it is, Minecraft has been incredibly durable as a game, but people eventually move on to other games. There may not be anything that can be done to fight that

[jattell]

Boy is the server end date a hot topic

 

I´m conflicted about this from both sides. I Would love to see a fixed and known end date. And i believe not having one has a negative influence on players towards the end of a revision.

 

However i understand perfectly that this is very difficult to commit to. This server is run by volunteers and the plugins we use are also the work of people committing their free time. Not to mention the amount of time going into a big build like spawn. Let alone having to worldbuild a custom map.

 

But what if we made a rule that a new rev always has a minimum announcement time of two months? That way if someone ask us in chat right now how long the rev will last we can say. AT LEAST two more months. That gives everyone much more clarity and certainty opposed to not knowing anything, without having to commit to a fixed end date. And when we get the announcement that the revision is going to end in ± 2 months nothing has to suddenly stop at that point. Its the perfect kick off point for end of rev builds, contests and tournaments. 

 

It could of course also be a one month rule. That is up for debate.  

I would love to know what everyone thinks about this.

[Tomzski]

I would say I agree with the whole increased story telling idea. You can plump as much ore and alter the map all you want, but a good story keeps people interested. I feel that the desire to continue the story of PvE and not miss out on anything will help secure a larger active player base.

Also a larger map size is the opposite of what we want. We want a smaller map if anything. If the NE of this rev has taught me anything it's that being smushed together with other cities is infinitely more interesting than being in the middle of nowhere. The little gimmicks between the towns is what makes P special.

That's why I liked Rev 11 so much. The terrain was unique and posed an actual problem in city development. The map wasnt huge either so you had neighbors you could visit and trade with.

One of the main reasons players aren't interested is the lack of conflict. If you can't overcome a conflict, what is there to do? Smushing cities next to each other creates conflict and makes things interesting. When you have close proximity to other cities, the demand for a culture and identity is higher. Yowie, Argoth, and Ambrosia all rose this rev in both of those, making the NE the most interesting region on the map

[Herr_Fawkes]

For instance, we could have long-term tasks, something implemented by a plugin that would function as a "quest" of sorts, that would take an average player a few weeks to complete and would reward a beacon or a pot of rare blocks. MMOs do this kind of thing well; just some sort of optional timesink that people can invest hours into for a reward - not large enough to be game-breaking, but enough that the player will feel as though their time was well spent.

 

Another idea would be to offer some sort of reward for 'finishing' a build. This might help to keep players around and reduce the number of Freyhills and other half-finished towns on the map. A player could apply to the mods for this, and a mod would, in turn, inspect the build to judge whether it's honestly finished and award a prize proportionate to the build's size. This prize could be something like, say, a grant of materials to get that player started on their next project (the player could request certain things). This would help to promote the starting of new builds after a build is completed, giving players more incentive to stay around.

 

These are just a few hairbrained ideas, of course... but all part of the brainstorming process!

I like these ideas especially, because they don't add some big change to the gameplay on the server. I joined up because I wanted to play Survival with a bunch of people that weren't trying to kill me like on S, and I stuck around because the community is so good. The last thing I want to see is anything that changes the core gameplay. Survival R26 is a good exampe of what happens when admins try to change things, and I don't want to see this server go in that direction. I think the biggest change we need is bigger, better terrain. The mesa, while it's cool to look at, hasn't spawned any builds, and really hasn't contributed to gameplay. I don't think we should get rid of it, but I like the idea of buffing mobs in areas where people aren't likely to build to create a sort of "badlands" effect. Custom dungeons/ruins/temples/villages/hidden secrets would be a great incentive to explore these areas. An 8Kx8K map is a bit big, but I like the size when I go exploring because there's always something new to find, even five montsh into the rev.

[I_c_e_]

As for the vE aspect.. We need more events like the Halloween one.

 

Never before have I gone out in the dark hunting mobs like I did that week. 

 

Creepers, skellies, zombies.. any pumpkin head I could lay my sword on..  

 

I still have chests full of drops and a few bricks :)

 

that was fun! 

 

How about a valentines week?  more cool drops and fireworks..

I agree with this 100% - I love all the events i've been lucky enough to be part of and wish there were more: Holiday events, Admin hunts, Pve Arena ( go team red ! ) any event that brings the map together is awesome and 100% fun. As was mentioned in an earlier post rev 11 The Creeper Grinder hunt was one of the best times Ive had in any rev. Tic and I searched like everyone else for what seemed like forever and when It was found  the whole map rushed to the site and we worked together all through the night to get it up and running. ( The fact it was found less that 300 blocks from our base still makes me rant a bit :) ! We're a mismatched group of souls here in minecraft, The Builders, The Treasure hunters, The Inventors, The Designers etc and what we all have in common is We love this game and We love to have a good time. My ideas are broad but with a common thread To have events that brings us together as a whole and that bridges our interests 

[Pyr0mrcow]

I think we could do with a smaller map. Not super small like those of days gone by, but smaller than the current one. The post about time investment was correct.

 

I actually quite like the current ore plumping, including that of Nether Quartz and Glowstone. Despite the plumps, I was still constantly in need of more Glowstone during early construction stages of my current lair. I don't think that limiting/not limiting item amounts is a problem, seeing as nearly anything can be had in large amounts given enough time and effort; rather, the plumps make things easier for people with less time to invest, and balance the effects of a limited map, which may otherwise be expended of resources to the point of having to move outward frustrating distances (if the map were smaller).
 

But the storyline of P and all that? Yes. I'd go so far to say that maybe people should be appointed just for that. Building dungeons, coming up with large-scale events on P itself like the aforementioned spaceship and egg things, etc.

 

I also like the idea of more access to special items, for the previously mentioned reasons of time and effort invested, though I'm not sure of how to do it in a fair way here, other than making said items extremely expensive, possibly increasing the price as the rev goes on.

I've seen that decorative command blocks are usable on S; an item such as that would be another goal to work toward, if accessible via something in-game.

 

Expanding on my earlier mention of dungeons and their prizes...
First, I seriously hope that there's a Killer Bunny spawner somewhere in the world, even if it's an addition later on in the rev.
But really, we've been talking about item availability and whatnot. Items themselves could also be prizes in dungeons. 1.8 will add several new items, particularly the sea-oriented ones. Sponges will be obtainable, but difficultly so. Sea lanterns and such are a similar case, more immediately plentiful but limited in the long term. More ways of obtaining such limited items would be welcome, I believe. And as mentioned, I don't nessecarily think that all dungeons have to be ready and accessible at the beginning of the rev. Opening, or even building them in stages, might work quite well.

 

 

EDIT:
Maybe enable the spawning of special mobs in the wild, very rarely. Zombies outfitted with decent armor and a sword/axe, Skeletons with better bows, Spiders with higher than usual speed potion effects, ect. There's also a good bit that can be customized via attributes.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Pyr0mrcow