Funding Concerns

[SwitchViewz]

Can someone confirm whether or not nerd will run out of funding at the end of this month? That seems to be what the numbers would suggest.

Maybe it's time to actually schedule that donation drive that you keep idly talking about.

We've been working on it with all hands on deck but it still takes time especially since its right round finals time and school for most people. I'm very much aware of how badly we need one but it takes time to get one rolling.

I believe we have enough funds to last us until the end of June.

[Mumberthrax]

Might I enquire not as to the specifics of how you were treated but how choosing not to donate based on your experience with the head admins is justified (ultimately it is your money and I don't want to sound like I am pushing you to donate)?

 

I'm making a few assumptions to expand upon what I feel is quite a bluntly worded question on my behalf: You feel betrayed by the head admins for said mis-treatment from your perspective, if you choose to donate then you will benefit form helping the servers to stay up, be able to continue playing (provided others are able to do the same), if you choose not to donate as to possibly "hurt" a group of people this attitude wounds everyone from those who you felt betrayed you right down to every person placing blocks..

 

I'm not trying to hurt anyone. You are probably right that my donation would benefit the community. It doesn't change the fact that I feel injustice has happened, or that my donation could be misconstrued as support for the actions and policies of the current head admins. On the whole they do an ok job, but i guess it's just a personal resentment for what happened. I don't intend to discourage others from donating. It probably was not appropriate for me to mention my issues.

[Difficult1]

More advertising --> More people to donate during CTF and more people on the servers?

[schererererer]

Can someone confirm whether or not nerd will run out of funding at the end of this month? That seems to be what the numbers would suggest.

Maybe it's time to actually schedule that donation drive that you keep idly talking about.

End of June (1600 at the end of January - 5 x 308 = 60 remaining). We're nearing completion on the donation drive preparations, but don't want to set a date until we're sure things will be ready to go - unlike a previous event where ctf was postponed after already opening it up and finding lots of bugs/problems.

[Ridiculous]

Do the ctf events generate about the same amount of funds each year or is there an upward or downward trend? 

[roastnewt]

As someone who has donated more than 1k to nerd in the past, I hold similar concerns to Mumberthrax.

[c45y]

Do the ctf events generate about the same amount of funds each year or is there an upward or downward trend? 

 

It fluctuates with the size of the current playerbase. Seeing as the playerbase is heavily trending downwards we should expect donations to do so as well.

[Guest Former Staff]

As someone who has donated more than 1k to nerd in the past, I hold similar concerns to Mumberthrax.

 

In regards to Mumberthrax's concerns, we had a conversation together in a little more depth as I felt guilty for being as blunt as I had been with my question. Mumberthrax helped me to understand better on how it may be possible in future to feel more comfortable donating based on his experiences. It's not an opinion that I would take part in but I understand why Mumberthrax has made this choice currently.

 

While I do not know your story Roastnewt, I imagine that I could empathise with any concerns that you may have. My only recommendation would be to try to move to a position where you may be more comfortable donating (regardless of how little or much you would wish to) as this should convert into being happier on the servers. From your post count alone I can see just how much of an investment you have in this community.

 

I'm probably going to post this line quite a few times but I want to be clear that while I would like to find ways of encouraging people to donate more, I don't wish to tell anyone how to spend their money.

[roastnewt]

In regards to Mumberthrax's concerns, we had a conversation together in a little more depth as I felt guilty for being as blunt as I had been with my question. Mumberthrax helped me to understand better on how it may be possible in future to feel more comfortable donating based on his experiences. It's not an opinion that I would take part in but I understand why Mumberthrax has made this choice currently.

 

While I do not know your story Roastnewt, I imagine that I could empathise with any concerns that you may have. My only recommendation would be to try to move to a position where you may be more comfortable donating (regardless of how little or much you would wish to) as this should convert into being happier on the servers. From your post count alone I can see just how much of an investment you have in this community.

 

I'm probably going to post this line quite a few times but I want to be clear that while I would like to find ways of encouraging people to donate more, I don't wish to tell anyone how to spend their money.

 

By "sharing his concerns," I meant that I was concerned that donating would be taken as a tacit endorsement of the way the current admins/staff are running the servers.  As we have no actual vote on how the place is run, I can only "vote with my dollars," you know?

[Guest Former Staff]

By "sharing his concerns," I meant that I was concerned that donating would be taken as a tacit endorsement of the way the current admins/staff are running the servers.  As we have no actual vote on how the place is run, I can only "vote with my dollars," you know?

 

That makes sense now, thanks for expanding on your thoughts there.

[JKayani]

I can see you guys are discussing different approaches of funding to raise money for nerd.nu. The only think I ask is to not make this a PAY TO WIN SERVER. Thankfully, this idea has not been said on any posts. 

[Silversunset01]

I don't believe anyone has the intention for this to *ever* become a pay-to-win server. At this point we are just looking for feedback on ways to potentially raise more funds in a timely manner to make sure that the people who want to play are able to.

I understand all of the concernes voiced by those who feel they have some disagreement with staff, however I would like to point out: if we do not have some sort of solution there will no longer be any conflict as there may not be a server.

This is an opportunity to come up with ways to fund the server that are sustainable. Any idea at this point is a valid one, like a brain storming session

(Edit: I am not trying to dismiss anyone's opinion, just redirect the conversation to the original point - how do we fund the server)

[Forever_A_Steve]

Once I get my paycheck, I'm going to make a donation. 

 

Playing on nerd.nu has been so much fun.

[Forever_A_Steve]

I'd like to recommend ways of cost cutting through server hosting.

 

One thing I found was https://ggservers.net/

Max cost would be $85 per month for a 400 player capacity or scale it down to a 144 player capacity at $36 a month

 

Since C, and S rarely go over 50 players, you can do the 60 player plan for $15 a month.

 

 

 

So Lets break down some costs.

 

PvE: $85 per month (if you do the 400 player capacity)

C: $15 a month (60 Player Capacity)

S: $15 a month (60 player capacity)

Lobby: $36 a month (if you do the 144 player capacity)

 

 

So totaling that up comes down to $151 a month in expenses.

 

 

 

 

As for web hosting, Most expensive that I see is $6.99 a month

https://ggservers.net/webhosting.html

 

 

$151 + $6.99 = $157.99 per month.

 

$157.99 x 12 = $1,895.88 per year.

 

 

Now that's quite the difference from the $3,700 per year quote. That's about a difference of $1,804.12 and that's how much we can save, while providing better servers with more draw distance and minimal lag.

It would be a much better user experience at a much better cost. 

[Guest Former Staff]

I'd like to recommend ways of cost cutting through server hosting.

 

...

 

Now that's quite the difference from the $3,700 per year quote. That's about a difference of $1,804.12 and that's how much we can save, while providing better servers with more draw distance and minimal lag.

It would be a much better user experience at a much better cost. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to put an option on the table to consider as an alternative means of cutting costs and quite literally doing the math on the monthly / annual costs.

 

A saving of $1804.12 is massive, with our costs reduced around 48% should we go forward with this change in both hardware and web hosting. I'm really, very interested in seeing costs come down if it wasn't apparent already, so my next question isn't meant to deter us from considering this specific host. How exactly does the hardware of this host compare to our current host's specifications?

 

One option instead of buying those four individual hosting packages would be to contact them for a custom plan. Assuming we found an even better host (in terms of a cost effective for our money) which only saved us half as much as this host would, we'd still be saving around 25% or $900 a year then.

[Difficult1]

 

Since C, and S rarely go over 50 players, you can do the 60 player plan for $15 a month.

 

So Lets break down some costs.

 

PvE: $85 per month (if you do the 400 player capacity)

C: $15 a month (60 Player Capacity)

S: $15 a month (60 player capacity)

Lobby: $36 a month (if you do the 144 player capacity)

 

So totaling that up comes down to $151 a month in expenses.

 

 

How would this effect new revs, because every time a new revision happens hundreds of people are on for a week or so.

 

Would it be possible to make the server say 400 people max for the 2-3 weeks it takes to calm down to regular sizes and just reduce hosting too the normal 60 or so.

 

As far as hosting servers go I'm about the last source for knowledge on it, but hey, theres my 2 cents

Edited May 29, 2015 by Difficult1

[Guest Former Staff]

How would this effect new revs, because every time a new revision happens hundreds of people are on for a week or so.

 

Would it be possible to make the server say 400 people max for the 2-3 weeks it takes to calm down to regular sizes and just reduce hosting too the normal 60 or so.

 

As far as hosting servers go I'm about the last source for knowledge on it, but hey, theres my 2 cents

 

I believe contacting them for a custom plan could allow for a different setup to the cookie-cutter options available, meaning we could have more control over maximum users per server, at least during the initial set up.

[Forever_A_Steve]

I believe contacting them for a custom plan could allow for a different setup to the cookie-cutter options available, meaning we could have more control over maximum users per server, at least during the initial set up.

 

I agree with this. what I posted was an example of costs, but we definitely need a custom plan.

 

 

 

 

As for the proposed server specs, you will need to inquire because I cannot find anything about that. But they do have free 24 hour trials to use, to test the waters.

You will need to inquire when you inquire about the custom plan. But I'm hoping for better money efficiency with a better player experience. 

[Guest Former Staff]

I agree with this. what I posted was an example of costs, but we definitely need a custom plan.

 

 

 

 

As for the proposed server specs, you will need to inquire because I cannot find anything about that. But they do have free 24 hour trials to use, to test the waters.

You will need to inquire when you inquire about the custom plan. But I'm hoping for better money efficiency with a better player experience. 

 

That is understandable, I'll try to contact them for a quote within the next 24 hours, mainly to find out what options are available to us in a little more detail and then post my findings back here.

[Forever_A_Steve]

Alright!

 

Also, I found mcprohosting which is another MC hosting server service. it's even cheaper. https://mcprohosting.com/plans?reset=1#/name?plans=mc

 

Specs for the mcprohosting are We utilize Dual Xeon E5-2620 Processors, DDR3 ECC RAM, Samsung SSDs, and 1 Gbps blended fiber connections on each box!

 

 

 

 

But for the sake of doing our shopping for the best possible solution for nerd.nu, im going to list a few others.

 

 

 

https://www.minespan.com/plans/   We only utilize enterprise level hardware. All servers are provisioned with dual Intel Xeon CPUs and solid state drives.

 

 

http://ownagehosting.com/minecraft-hosting    x2 Xeon E5-2670v2, DDR3 ECC RAM, And 1Gbps Connection!

 

 

Though reviews on google/youtube are going toward ownage hosting and mcprohosting.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Forever_A_Steve

[c45y]

There are a lot more...reputable...options available if we wanted to switch our hosting. As it is if you don't count the random $70 server nobody can seem to tell me the purpose of we have a fairly good deal.
 
EDIT to laugh a little:
 
Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2620 (15M Cache, 2.00 GHz, 7.20 GT/s Intel® QPI)

 

We might be able to run a nerd themed toaster on this.

Edited May 29, 2015 by c45y

[Forever_A_Steve]

There are a lot more...reputable...options available if we wanted to switch our hosting. As it is if you don't count the random $70 server nobody can seem to tell me the purpose of we have a fairly good deal.

 

Please make suggestions and compare them to other suggestions and our current setup.

[tobylane]

 

I'd like to recommend ways of cost cutting through server hosting.

 

... while providing better servers with more draw distance and minimal lag.

It would be a much better user experience at a much better cost. 

 

What tells you that it'll be better user experience?

 

edit: Please can people provide some sort of uptime chart for any new hosters they suggest? OVH or some other name of theirs had downtime yesterday.

Edited May 29, 2015 by tobylane

[c45y]

Please make suggestions and compare them to other suggestions and our current setup.

 

I wish I had the irc logs of an earlier conversation, but I'll summarize below what I said then:

 

As I said, our current box is good for the price we pay ( $238 ). Alternatives would be SingleHop and FutureHosting however for the amount of ram we currently have neither host can beat SecuredServers on price. We could look at moving to OVH if we wanted to change the landscape of our server a bit but there is little incentive at the moment. We could look at moving back to Incero where we originally were hosted some 3-4 years ago, but we were unhappy enough with them to move, moving back wouldn't be a decision made lightly.

 

Another option to lower cost would be to split our game servers across multiple smaller hosts, the added cost of extra ram however is far less than an entirely new server with lower specs is.

 

There are a lot of 'minecraft hosts' out there, who will happily charge us $50 a month to give us shared bandwidth on an oversubscribed host with a slow CPU and minimal technical support. Thankfully there are still some sysadmins on the nerd tech team who understand servers, not just minecraft. Having read over the price breakdown for what we're actually getting we're not doing so bad, we should be looking at other areas to increase revenue rather than reducing cost ( except for that random $70 ). If we planned to remove a game server then we should consider moving hardware as well.

 

 

What tells you that it'll be better user experience?

 

EDIT: I'm inclined to ask the same question, is there some previous experience you have that you are drawing on to make these conclusions? If you have experience hosting servers or using these solutions I would be very interested to see how you found them.

Edited May 29, 2015 by c45y

[Aeyrix]

I'd like to recommend ways of cost cutting through server hosting.

 

One thing I found was https://ggservers.net/

Max cost would be $85 per month for a 400 player capacity or scale it down to a 144 player capacity at $36 a month

 

Since C, and S rarely go over 50 players, you can do the 60 player plan for $15 a month.

 

 

 

So Lets break down some costs.

 

PvE: $85 per month (if you do the 400 player capacity)

C: $15 a month (60 Player Capacity)

S: $15 a month (60 player capacity)

Lobby: $36 a month (if you do the 144 player capacity)

 

 

So totaling that up comes down to $151 a month in expenses.

 

 

 

 

As for web hosting, Most expensive that I see is $6.99 a month

https://ggservers.net/webhosting.html

 

 

$151 + $6.99 = $157.99 per month.

 

$157.99 x 12 = $1,895.88 per year.

 

 

Now that's quite the difference from the $3,700 per year quote. That's about a difference of $1,804.12 and that's how much we can save, while providing better servers with more draw distance and minimal lag.

It would be a much better user experience at a much better cost.

 

(Ex-)sysadmin here!

 

Garbage.

 

Their "North American" IP is owned by OVH. OVH don't have anything in North America. Their closest DC is in Beauharnois, Quebec, Canada. The peering information for the test IP they provide (192.99.14.127) shows it most certainly is in Canada.

 

While OVH in itself isn't that bad and boasts a >200Gbit DDoS mitigation backbone, there's no way GGServers, who hide their domain WHOIS information, and post a fake address on their website, are providing the service they offer making a return. Not for the prices they (he?) charge(s).

 

Sorry guys, your options are pretty limited for what you need. You've made some decisions that could've taken a bit more thought (IP.Board, the random $70/mo box).

 

What tells you that it'll be better user experience?

 

edit: Please can people provide some sort of uptime chart for any new hosters they suggest? OVH or some other name of theirs had downtime yesterday.

 

Pretty much everything. Web hosting providers are a dime for ten dozen. The best ones make it around via word of mouth.

 

Nerd.nu needs to see what comes out of this latest fundraiser and reconsider its options, hardware and otherwise.

 

--EDIT--

 

While I didn't want to turn this post into a floodfest of irrelevancy, I was encouraged to share a few things I found while researching further into ggservers. I guess this is relevant to tobylane too in that you really have to trust a brand (or the person behind it) before you throw everything away on price.

 

I did a bit of digging attempting to find the panel for ggservers. Unrelatedly, c45y found the status page asking who they were hosting with in Nevada. Four seconds later I discovered that the panels (because having only one panel is for amateurs) are listed sequentially by their ID as a subdomain of ggservers.net (e.g., panel1.ggservers.net). A quick lookup of panel7 (the Nevada) panel revealed they're with another fairly reputable host. The only problem is that the reverse DNS record shows some pretty interesting, unrelated-to-minecraft, results. Given the IP address disparity I can't say for sure whether or not those boxes are 100% owned, leased, or "borrowed".

Edited May 29, 2015 by Aeyrix