Restart latest rev

[Vykoden]

Within 3 weeks of the new rev, active population numbers dropped from close to 200 players to 50-60. More are leaving quickly because of the horrible lag.

 

Before the new rev, up to 40 players could play without any lag.

 

This indicates that something Nerd did between last rev and this rev is causing the lag.

 

Therefore, EVERYTHING you did between this rev and last rev? Undo it all. 

 

If restarting the map is a result of undoing all the changes, you will be retaining your players.

 

I know absolutely nothing about code. But, I know that the more bells and whistles you add to anything, the more chances you have of experiencing problems with it (why many programmers like Linux). 

 

So, strip Nerd PvE down, take away all those neat little ideas you thought were awesome and give your players what they want: A simple, functioning, 1.8 vanilla PvE Minecraft experience with no lag. 

 

Your players will love you for it.

 

-Vykoden

[Trooprm32]

Uhh ... we only updated to 1.8.7 from 1.8. C45Y already made a post on /r/mcpublic about the possible causes: https://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/3jtrlp/whysolaggius/cuscw35?context=3

 

And please, you don't speak for the entire community. I highly doubt everyone wants to play a bare-bones 1.8 pure vanilla server. A lot of the bells and whistles are the things that players have wanted over the years, which is why they exist.

 

Population numbers never stay ~200 for long. They always have equalized out to ~60 online at any given time for quite a few years now. And players would hate us for suddenly scrapping a map. Clearly.

[Vykoden]

Uhhh ... I guess I didn't think of checking Reddit, since this is the "community forum". In the future, should we check here or there for news? It would be awful nice for a final ruling on that.

And, yeah, numbers always drop off, but you never lose 100 players in three weeks.  

 

I might not talk for all players, but I had a talk with quite a few of them playing last night, and we're pretty much in agreement. When we're experiencing 15-20-second block lag, 10-block rubberbanding and greatly-delayed block placement time, I'd bet money that folks would much rather start over than keep going down this road. 

But, you're right. I'm sure I'm wrong. Who would ever want to trade a laggy, bogged-down gaming experience for one that runs smooth and worry-free?

I'm so silly to have thought that. Thank you for correcting me. Bad Vyko, bad! 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Vykoden

[Silversunset01]

Vykoden, I'm not sure there is a solid answer for you. We use the forums and subreddit to disseminate information.

As it stands right now the tech admins are looking into the issue and trying to correct it as fast as they can. Some of the solutions they are implementing are not quick fixes, and all of use (even staff) have to deal with the lag.

Negative and accusatory posts like this one will not get you anywhere. If you have suggestions in the future maybe a more tactful approach would be beneficial.

[Vykoden]

Tactful ... I didn't accuse anyone of anything; nor did I say anything that should have been taken as an insult.

 

I expressed observations and posed a solution.

 

Did I forget to say "please" ... or maybe I should have curtsied lower?

[zburdsal]

nor did I say anything that should have been taken as an insult.

 

...

 

or maybe I should have curtsied lower?

 

:/

[Sapphric]

First off, if you want us to take your suggestions seriously, being rude and sarcastic isn't going to help.

Secondly, we're not restarting the rev. The revision is going just fine. Player numbers are down from the first week, yes. But as a long-time player, you should already know that this always happens. Literally every rev. It's not through any fault of ours, it's just a fact that the start of the rev is the most popular time, and after a week or three the player count levels off to 50-60.

As for the lag, it's being worked on. The techs are actively looking for solutions, and I know some of the plugins are being rewritten from scratch to make them work better. These things take time. Coding a new plugin from scratch isn't something you can always do in a day, especially with real-life commitments interfering.

But nuking the rev and starting over? That's a terrible idea. It won't fix any of the issues you are complaining about, and all it will do is piss off everyone else.

[Guest Former Staff]

Uhhh ... I guess I didn't think of checking Reddit, since this is the "community forum". In the future, should we check here or there for news? It would be awful nice for a final ruling on that.

 

 

Vykoden, I'm not sure there is a solid answer for you. We use the forums and subreddit to disseminate information.

 

Just wanted to continue on this question a little bit for you, we generally share our main news topics upon both the forums and subreddit. In regards to other information shared, this is usually in response to people's questions. Some people just prefer to post on the subreddit while others prefer the forums for discussions. We aim to reply to posts in either location.

[UNP]

The lag wouldn't be a problem if the mods were even remotely amenable to the idea of helping people recover their inventory if they're killed as a result of lag (pearling deaths, dropping off the edge of the world, suffocating, etc). But they're not. Last night MrLoud challenged me in chat to suggest what should be done - I suggested the above.

The only response I got was a feeble comment about how hard it is to prove these things, and then nothing but silence.

It seems every time someone challenges your position or offers an alternative or amendment you guys go straight to the ol tried and true "negative and accusatory" chestnut.

The bottom line is right now the lag is ridiculous (20 seconds plus of it last night with 10 people on). It's killing players, and the lack of easy ways to recover their inventory full of stuff they worked hard to get is killing their desire to come back. What do you people want, really?

[Silversunset01]

If there was a way for us to prove your inventory and that your death was due to lag i don't think it would be as big of a deal. The problem is that we can't tell exactly what your inventory was when you died so there is nothing to stop some unscrupulous player from saying "oh i had full armor and fancy enchanted everything and 200 diamonds" when they die. We also have a hard time proving your death is due to lag v/s careless digging in some cases. So rather than potentially assist players in cheating we've gone the other route and said that we do not reimburse items due to lag deaths. Admins could spend all day trying to sort out player inventories and causes of death, and in the end we are also players who want to build just as much as the next person.

 

If you know of a way around this please let us know, I would be interested to hear it. To date i do not know any way to do it.

[SwitchViewz]

I don't know how long you have been around UNP but this isn't the first time things like this have happened. This is minecraft. A buggy, poorly written, game that we have to pry open in order to add mods and plugins to. For as long as minecraft has been around the multiplayer aspect has always been buggy on large scale servers. Do we have lag this Rev? Yes. Did we have lag at the start of last rev? Yup. Have we had lag in previous revs before that? Most definitely. In fact last Rev we had absurd lag because SafeBuckets was freaking out for an unknown reason. We had to rewrite the entire plugin from scratch in order to fix it. At least we knew last rev what was causing the Rev. This Rev we have no idea what is causing it. We have our guesses sure, such as ClanChat, and we are rewriting it from scratch in an effort to resolve some lag.

 

These things take time and we can't just fix the lag overnight. I can gaurentee you that the tech admins are just as frustrated as you are. They have better things to do then rewrite plugins in an attempt to fix lag.

 

In regards to inventories being restored there is absolutely no way to prove what you had in your inventory. None. Whatsoever. What is to stop a player from saying they had something when in fact they didn't? Absolutely nothing. Were not about to start handing out resources because people claim certain things are in there inventories. Not only that we can't prove that lag was the actual cause of your death. Whose to say someone falls in lava and then blames it on block lag when it really wasn't? If we had someone to keep track of inventories and somewhat prove a death was caused by lag then I am sure we would consider restoring inventories. 

[UNP]

I love how you're both going on about proof and people lying about their inventories when there's a much simpler and more effective way to achieve a solution, with no chance of someone lying.

When someone dies after a lag spike, give them the option of requesting a teleport to their death coordinates. That way they only get what they had before.

It baffles me that apparently nobody has thought of this. Or maybe you did and decided it was all a bit too hard because raisins.

[Forever_A_Steve]

We just need a new server...

[UNP]

You know what you guys need? Nerd.nu gold. People can subscribe every month and get access to "special" blocks like diamond and emerald, the 3 different varieties of stone, and the ability to enchant. Then whenever the server has lag you can swear blind that it'll go away if just a few more people donate. You can have nice little flow charts, pie graphs, projections and all sorts of cool stuff like that.

That way, when people whinge about the lag you can just tell them that if they're not paying then they're part of the problem.

Edited September 12, 2015 by UNP

[twilexis]

You know what you guys need? Nerd.nu gold. People can subscribe every month and get access to "special" blocks like diamond and emerald, the 3 different varieties of stone, and the ability to enchant. Then whenever the server has lag you can swear blind that it'll go away if just a few more people donate. You can have nice little flow charts, pie graphs, projections and all sorts of cool stuff like that.

That way, when people whinge about the lag you can just tell them that if they're not paying then they're part of the problem.

No.

[Mrloud15]

The lag wouldn't be a problem if the mods were even remotely amenable to the idea of helping people recover their inventory if they're killed as a result of lag (pearling deaths, dropping off the edge of the world, suffocating, etc). But they're not. Last night MrLoud challenged me in chat to suggest what should be done - I suggested the above.

The only response I got was a feeble comment about how hard it is to prove these things, and then nothing but silence.

It seems every time someone challenges your position or offers an alternative or amendment you guys go straight to the ol tried and true "negative and accusatory" chestnut.

The bottom line is right now the lag is ridiculous (20 seconds plus of it last night with 10 people on). It's killing players, and the lack of easy ways to recover their inventory full of stuff they worked hard to get is killing their desire to come back. What do you people want, really?

 

I did not continue with the discussion I was trying to have with you because you trying ending the conversion...

2015-09-10 20:36:38 | <UNP> i especially like how, if the lag gets you killed, the official response is "oh well."

2015-09-10 20:36:42 | <UNP> "better luck next time"

2015-09-10 20:36:50 | <kurtfishs> anyone want to trade planks for smooth stone?

2015-09-10 20:36:51 | <jllmprrt> yeah seriously the fucking ender pearls

2015-09-10 20:36:59 | <jllmprrt> I was being hit by guardians so I pearled out

2015-09-10 20:37:06 | <jllmprrt> got down to two hearts and died from the pearl

2015-09-10 20:37:12 | <dshipley86> Leel

2015-09-10 20:37:16 | <stellarviking> blame it on whiteoak

2015-09-10 20:37:20 | <Sir_Rainmaker> Well, I was just asking seriously, if they have pinpointed what the problem is :(

2015-09-10 20:37:29 | <UNP> "well if you didn't want to die you shouldn't have been doing dangerous stuff"

2015-09-10 20:37:30 | <Sir_Rainmaker> 50 people shouldn't cause this kind of lag....

2015-09-10 20:37:44 | <Gov> tbh I think the physical servers are just too old

2015-09-10 20:37:46 | <dshipley86> Well, you got unserious answers because this is PvE

2015-09-10 20:37:48 | <shwk77> nah its my 16 red stone clocks

2015-09-10 20:37:53 | <Mrloud15> UNP, what would you like us todo then?

2015-09-10 20:37:56 | <totemo> agism against servers is a crime

2015-09-10 20:38:01 | <Sir_Rainmaker> why is it unserious because of PvE?

2015-09-10 20:38:03 | <Mrloud15> to say*

2015-09-10 20:38:06 | <dshipley86> 16? I got OVER 9000!!!!!!!

2015-09-10 20:38:07 | <Sir_Rainmaker> Where should the question be asked?

2015-09-10 20:38:14 | <Blizihizake> "thanks for the donations"

2015-09-10 20:38:14 | <jllmprrt> eww I can't believe people think Ageism is a real thing

2015-09-10 20:38:21 | <jllmprrt> thanks for nightmares totemo :(

2015-09-10 20:38:31 | <rickiest_rick> my favorite thing is how the lag keeps me from moving but also takes my health

2015-09-10 20:38:34 | <dshipley86> What do you mean?

2015-09-10 20:38:35 | <UNP> Mrloud15 - maybe be amenable to helping people fetch their stuff if the server lag contributed

2015-09-10 20:38:38 | <UNP> to their deaths

2015-09-10 20:38:40 | <UNP> that'd be a start

2015-09-10 20:38:44 | <totemo> it's not that 50 people should not cause this kind of lag. It is that 10-15 people should not lag.

2015-09-10 20:38:55 | <dshipley86> Ok

2015-09-10 20:39:00 | <UNP> if one person lags, the problem is on their end.

2015-09-10 20:39:08 | <UNP> if a group of people lags, the problem is the server.

2015-09-10 20:39:09 | <chrisisrambo> ahhh

2015-09-10 20:39:12 | <dshipley86> leel

2015-09-10 20:39:19 | <totemo> overnight, when 10-15 are on it lags

2015-09-10 20:39:20 | <Sir_Rainmaker> LOL

2015-09-10 20:39:21 | <jllmprrt> fucking jesus

2015-09-10 20:39:23 | <Sir_Rainmaker> see?

2015-09-10 20:39:26 | <UNP> jesus christ.

2015-09-10 20:39:35 | <ghrey303> much jesus

2015-09-10 20:39:41 | <archelon> holy wow

2015-09-10 20:39:45 | <Mrloud15> UNP, it's very hard to prove someone died because of lag alone.

2015-09-10 20:39:48 | <dnynumberone> and i'm 100% sure that they're doing nothing at all to try to fix the issue /s

2015-09-10 20:39:49 | <archelon> all my lbobks are disappearing

2015-09-10 20:39:52 | <archelon> blocks

2015-09-10 20:40:13 | <UNP> Mrloud15 - and yet it's so easy to "prove" things like x-raying and griefing.

2015-09-10 20:40:29 | <mattgorecki> you should see the x-ray plugins, that shit is impressive

2015-09-10 20:40:35 | <totemo> UNP: it depends on what is logged

2015-09-10 20:40:38 | <UNP> look, i'm gonna do your job for you - we're on opposing sides of the argument

2015-09-10 20:40:39 | <jllmprrt> well when no one's talking in chat and 20 people leave at once. lag is here

2015-09-10 20:40:42 | <UNP> and this is going to go nowhere

2015-09-10 20:40:46 | <shwk77> xray plug in?

2015-09-10 20:40:50 | <shwk77> lol wtf

2015-09-10 20:40:51 | <UNP> so i'm just going to shut up now and get back to what i was doing.

2015-09-10 20:40:56 | <archelon> it's the plugin that mods use to xray

2015-09-10 20:41:07 | <TheRandomnatrix> sssh arch!

2015-09-10 20:41:07 | <UNP> i've made my point and there's no point in continuing to make it

2015-09-10 20:41:15 | <Mrloud15> UNP, we have logblock for those... we don't have a loglag plugin

2015-09-10 20:41:16 | <archelon> oh oops

2015-09-10 20:41:23 | * TheRandomnatrix slips some diamonds under table

2015-09-10 20:41:28 | Glenjumin left the game.

2015-09-10 20:41:30 | <Aharito> "I want everything to be perfect and don't want to lift a finger or pay a cent" is a good point

2015-09-10 20:41:32 | <totemo> me too thanks TheRandomnatrix

2015-09-10 20:41:33 | <archelon> forget I said anything...

2015-09-10 20:41:43 | * archelon whispers to random thx bby

2015-09-10 20:41:55 | <UNP> Hahaha, wow. I try to leave the argument, and Aharito tries to drag me back in.

2015-09-10 20:41:57 | <UNP> this is a first.

2015-09-10 20:42:07 | <chrisisrambo> guys

2015-09-10 20:42:09 | <UNP> normally the situation is reversed.

 

To expand on that, we don't have the access to log if someone died because of lag and not another reason. It would be very easy for someone to say the died because of lag if they don't want to lose their items and we would not be able to tell the difference.

 

I love how you're both going on about proof and people lying about their inventories when there's a much simpler and more effective way to achieve a solution, with no chance of someone lying.

When someone dies after a lag spike, give them the option of requesting a teleport to their death coordinates. That way they only get what they had before.

It baffles me that apparently nobody has thought of this. Or maybe you did and decided it was all a bit too hard because raisins. 

I would much rather have the techadmins working on ways to fix the lag instead of writing a plugin to do this. However, you are more than welcome to write the plugin yourself and then we can see how it does and then the padmins can decide if they would like to use.

[zburdsal]

On that second part, that doesn't require a plugin. Its a simple 2 minute matter for a mod to teleport someone back to where they died, if it was deemed appropriate for them to do so.

[Sapphric]

On that second part, that doesn't require a plugin. Its a simple 2 minute matter for a mod to teleport someone back to where they died, if it was deemed appropriate for them to do so.

But how do we determine that? Anyone can say "I died because lag", but there's no way for us to know if thats true or if they're either mistaken or outright lying. Better solution is to just work on fixing the lag, which the techs are already working on.

[stellarviking]

post removed

[zburdsal]

Oh, I'm not saying to figure out if it was lag or not, I quite like how it is handled now honestly, I'm just saying the finding out where they died last and tp'ing them back there would be easy enough (if it could somehow be decided that a certain death was indeed caused by lag).

[twilexis]

It'd be too difficult to determine if fall damage was from being caught in a fall loop or if it were actual fall damage from, say, pearling or just having low health. Best thing would be to recommend that the player install a map mod that does last death waypoints, and suggest they don't die on their way to collecting their stuff.

Edited September 13, 2015 by twilexis

[Narissis]

I love how you're both going on about proof and people lying about their inventories when there's a much simpler and more effective way to achieve a solution, with no chance of someone lying.

When someone dies after a lag spike, give them the option of requesting a teleport to their death coordinates. That way they only get what they had before.

It baffles me that apparently nobody has thought of this. Or maybe you did and decided it was all a bit too hard because raisins.

 

UNP, since you seem to have a hard time understanding why we're always calling you "toxic" and confrontational, allow me to assist you by rewriting your suggestion above (which is not a bad idea) in a way that is not toxic and confrontational:

 

"If there's no way to get proof of cause of death and restore items directly, how about a policy whereby players can request a teleport back to their death coordinates to recover their items before they despawn? The rule could be that this option is available only after a noticeable lag spike, in order to prevent abuse."

 

Notice how I did not sarcastically insult the people to whom the suggestion is being made, or accuse them of being actively malicious for no particular reason.

[coolgamerovr90]

Are you guys running all the players through one bungee? If so that could be the cause of lag too

[coolgamerovr90]

Also players here is a wiki entry about the kinds of lag in MC

https://www.spigotmc.org/wiki/lag-types-and-how-to-fix-them/

Edited September 14, 2015 by coolgamerovr90

[MasterCommaThe]

Problem found: Failing Server SSD

 

https://nerd.nu/forums/topic/3767-server-lag-update/