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Mumberthrax

Proposed Revision to Universal Rule Regarding Hate Speech

Proposed Revision to Hate Speech Rule  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe the current rule deserves to be revised?

  2. 2. Have you ever experienced or observed issues with enforcement of rules regarding bigotry at nerd.nu?

  3. 3. Do you support the proposed rule change?

  4. 4. If you answered "No" or "I don't know / Maybe" to the previous question, why?

    • I think the proposed rule is a step in the right direction, but it could be better
    • I think the current rule is fine as it is
    • I really don't know
    • I voted yes for the proposed rule, so I'm choosing this option.
    • None of the other options apply to me, so I'm choosing this one.


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I agree that temp bans should be a thing, and I think that discussion deserves its own thread rather than taking place on this one.

Edited by Mumberthrax
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I agree that temp bans should be a thing, and I think that discussion deserves its own thread rather than taking place on this one.

 

Continually splitting up the discussion has a chilling effect on the conversation.

Edited by Deaygo
Removed spiteful comment

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And "Don't use any words pertaining to homosexuality in a negative context"

 

One key part is who decides what is negative. The original point of this topic is a perfect example of that. I don't want a rule where someone can mess with the admins by saying 'I didn't say it negatively'. The real world, say English law, has "the test must balance the objective standard of a reasonable person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_English_law#Reasonable_force Replace jury with single banning mod, and appeal with head admin.

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I mean, let's be honest here.

 

It doesn't take a genius to tell the difference between using the word in an honest sense to describe a homosexual person with no ill intent, and using it in a derogatory or provocative manner.

 

In the unlikely event that the usage is so ambiguous that common sense can't determine one way or the other, then the player should be gently reminded to be careful how they use the word. If the player becomes more appropriate with it, then no harm done. If they react to the reminder by getting immature with it, then give them the usual kick. And if they log back in and become a total shitbag, then ban.

 

This whole discussion is really making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no reasonable way to remove mod judgement from the equation. The best thing we can do is make sure that the appropriate response is well understood by all the mods.

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I agree that temp bans should be a thing, and I think that discussion deserves its own thread rather than taking place on this one.

 

No need to be a separate thread, it will be in the next release of MCB. (hopefully soon)

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No need to be a separate thread, it will be in the next release of MCB. (hopefully soon)

 

Any timescale on that? Iirc when this subject was last brought up I think you were one of the people who shot it down as you wanted to stick with MCB with no temp bans. We have a habit of saying we'll do stuff and never get round to it so it'd be nice to set a date to have this done by.

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I have it already implemented in the database, and the new API is written, I am currently working on the plugin side of things which is a complete rewrite due to the API being completely different and all of the things that need to be supported plugin wise (Sponge, Spigot, BungeeCord, etc).  And I can't give you a date due to not knowing when I am able to actually work on it and I don't want to give you a date and have people be upset when I am not able to complete it by then.  If you wanna discuss it more, we can talk in the mcb IRC #mcbouncer on esper.

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No need to be a separate thread, it will be in the next release of MCB. (hopefully soon)

 

Using temporary bans will be interesting once implemented. I have a few questions regarding them to anyone who may have some thoughts or answers.

 

  • How will temporary bans affect the message shown when trying to connect to the servers?

This is sort of two questions in one. Assuming the ban message appearing for a temporarily banned person is set by the banning moderator (e.g. temporary ban for minor griefing) and follow up details are sent via /mail on how to avoid repeating this in future, will people still be encouraged to appeal? I recall a notice encouraging people to appeal when connected and banned.

 

  • Which circumstances will warrant a temporary ban instead of a considered appeal process?

I completely understand that each ban can be subjective but may I request that once decided upon, any changes to how the ban process or ban types (appeal / temporary) will be enforced could be shared publicly for transparency please.

 

  • How will the temporary ban end time work?

Hello again Deaygo, another question more headed your way I imagine as I see from your earlier messages that this is a work in progress. Starting from when a person is temporarily banned, how is the time going to be set? Set by hours, days or an actual date?

 

Once the ban duration is set for an individual by the temporary ban, how will the 'countdown' display for people attempting to reconnect to the servers?

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Once the ban duration is set for an individual by the temporary ban, how will the 'countdown' display for people attempting to reconnect to the servers?

 Maybe have it so that it says "You've been banned for x amount of time for the following:", and maybe even have a strike system, where if they get temp banned say 3 times in a month, the next time they get banned it won't be a temp and they have to appeal.

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  • How will temporary bans affect the message shown when trying to connect to the servers?

 

I'd assume that the reason for the ban will be displayed and the time banned would be automatically in the message, just as the "appeal at nerd.nu/appeal" is right now.

 

  • Which circumstances will warrant a temporary ban instead of a considered appeal process?
  • How will the temporary ban end time work?

 

Every ban should be a temp ban apart from a few exceptional cases. The staff member enters /tempban (1d/1h/1w etc.) followed by the reason, and upon completion of the ban time the player is automatically unbanned. The player may appeal the ban if they feel they were wrongly banned, however hopefully that shouldn't occur too frequently.

 

This is how most servers do it afaik and it works well there, our banning system is outdated in that aspect and it's about time we caught up. That's how I think/assume it will be handled, although Deaygo might want to comment to confirm the actual process.

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I'd assume that the reason for the ban will be displayed and the time banned would be automatically in the message, just as the "appeal at nerd.nu/appeal" is right now.

 

 

Every ban should be a temp ban apart from a few exceptional cases. The staff member enters /tempban (1d/1h/1w etc.) followed by the reason, and upon completion of the ban time the player is automatically unbanned. The player may appeal the ban if they feel they were wrongly banned, however hopefully that shouldn't occur too frequently.

 

This is how most servers do it afaik and it works well there, our banning system is outdated in that aspect and it's about time we caught up. That's how I think/assume it will be handled, although Deaygo might want to comment to confirm the actual process.

And other online games too, for example a player gets banned for combat logging, they get a disconnected with a message like (You have been disconnected: You have been banned for 72 hours, nerd.nu/rules) or something among those lines if this is really what you want to do

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Alright, wrote up a little thing about how I was thinking about implementing it.  You can find that here.   Please comment there on it, I don't really have anything else setup for ideas for MCB.  I have the subreddit currently as protected, but you should be able to reply to it.

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I have always wondered why calling people autistic or retarted has never fallen under "hate speech". It literally falls under the definition of it. Sure you could argue its not as bad as racism or homophobia, but isn't calling someone or something autistic or retarted the same sort of malice as calling someone gay? Im a little ashamed to not see this enforced in any way. We don't need that type of hate in the chat of any servers.

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Just don't be a dick. Let mods deal with it on an individual case by case basis using temp bans instead of actual bans.

Also UNP, Please calm down. 

 

 

Direct is ok, but raging like that seems unnecessary (but hey. do what you want. Just a suggestion)

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Just don't be a dick. Let mods deal with it on an individual case by case basis using temp bans instead of actual bans.

Also UNP, Please calm down. 

 

 

Direct is ok, but raging like that seems unnecessary (but hey. do what you want. Just a suggestion)

 

That kind of freedom led to a level of variety some people couldn't deal with. They want uniformity in actions.

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That kind of freedom led to a level of variety some people couldn't deal with. They want uniformity in actions.

 

Very true, but of course people will complain either way.

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Since the rule has been revised to a form I find acceptable, from:
 

No sexism, racism, homophobia or any type of hate speech.

( http://www.redditpublic.com/index.php?title=Rules&oldid=24632#Universal )

to:
 

No bigotry / hate speech

  • This includes, but is not limited to, bigotry based upon ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, and religion.

( http://www.redditpublic.com/index.php?title=Rules&oldid=24652#ALL_SERVICES )

 

then it would seem this post no longer has any need to remain open, and should likely be archived. If a moderator would be kind enough to lock it and possibly move it to the archives, I'd be appreciative.

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then it would seem this post no longer has any need to remain open, and should likely be archived. If a moderator would be kind enough to lock it and possibly move it to the archives, I'd be appreciative.

 

Closing. We don't have a area to move closed suggestions at the moment so I will leave it here and look into possibly getting a sub forum added to The Archives.

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