Congratulations on 100k total server bans

[Denevien]

 

Are all those steps completely necessary, they all seem to have the person to resort to begging, and once they've begged enough, they'll be unbanned. That doesn't seem like an efficient process.

 

 

I agree with what gsand is saying. It feels as if your in a submissive position because you feel like you have to plead for a chance to be unbanned.

I'll admit I've made a few people beg, but the steps I listed is not begging. It is a chance to prove they are capable of following directions. If you can't follow the rules, then you can't play here

[bmx20042004]

I'll admit I've made a few people beg, but the steps I listed is not begging. It is a chance to prove they are capable of following directions. If you can't follow the rules, then you can't play here

 

I feel like making someone beg or be submissive will leave a terrible taste in your mouth about a server. You want a peaceful server to play on that you're not worried that you're going to be banned for not reading between the lines constantly. A lot of newer players that haven't been here long see whats going on as a reason not to play here or stay around. A few have came to me personally and asked how long this type of stuff has been going on for. It's something that I think needs to change or this community is going to start to shrink even further.

Edited July 3, 2014 by bmx20042004

[SpiderMan]

I'll admit I've made a few people beg, but the steps I listed is not begging. It is a chance to prove they are capable of following directions.

 

What circumstances caused them to beg?

 

What is the point of proving that they are capable of following orders? Is it necessary.

 

If you can't follow the rules, then you can't play here

 

Of course not, but that is not what is being discussed here.

[SwitchViewz]

I feel like making someone beg or be submissive will leave a terrible taste in your mouth about a server.

As I stated earlier, I fail to see any of this "submission". Are we really asking that much for someone to read the rules and say what they have done wrong?

You want a peaceful server to play on that you're not worried that you're going to be banned for not reading between the lines constantly.

Read between the lines? Of what exactly? The rules clearly state what is and what is not acceptable. Only in a few cases is it not clear and those cases are dealt with.

A lot of newer players that haven't been here long see whats going on as a reason not to play here or stay around. A few have came to me personally and asked how long this type of stuff has been going on for. It's something that I think needs to change or this community is going to start to shrink even further.

I am not as old of a player as some people here but I've been around a few years and I have never heard of this happening.

[coolgamerovr90]

The issue that I spoke about was the fact that this system is almost entirely unique to nerd, and new players don't KNOW that's how it works. They think the ban is permanent, and that the appeals process is like the appeals process in a court of law, i.e., a place to argue their innocence. Like I said,

My solution to this would be to change the ban message and make it say "To get unbanned visit nerd.nu/appeal" or something like that so they do not think that their ban is permanent, although I still think nerd.nu/appeal is enough Edited July 3, 2014 by coolgamerovr90

[slide]

I feel like making someone beg or be submissive will leave a terrible taste in your mouth about a server. You want a peaceful server to play on that you're not worried that you're going to be banned for not reading between the lines constantly. A lot of newer players that haven't been here long see whats going on as a reason not to play here or stay around. A few have came to me personally and asked how long this type of stuff has been going on for. It's something that I think needs to change or this community is going to start to shrink even further.

Read between the lines how? The rules are fairly basic and pretty clear, it only gets complicated because people start rule lawyering.

 

Yes, we do want a peaceful server to play on, and the person being banned stopped it from being peaceful. This is the reason they need to acknowledge what they did and that they won't do it again. It is NOT "begging". They had a chance to play without having to do anything, even acknowledging they read the rules. They are given the benefit of the doubt, they wasted that chance and now need to prove they are capable of adhering to them in the future.

[Jauris]

Read between the lines? Of what exactly? The rules clearly state what is and what is not acceptable. Only in a few cases is it not clear and those cases are dealt with.

 

There are a number of rules that are open to mod / admin interpretation. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Jauris

[bmx20042004]

For Switchviews and Slide, my main issue is that begging is required. In no way do I see some of these bans needing "begging." People are constantly required to respond back after their ban date has been set and in my eyes thats pointless, what is the point in that? Now for my comment on reading between the lines is that no matter what an admin or mod could make a case around anyone just to ban them. The rules are twisted and turned to fit their selected narrative so they can be banned in certain situations. 

[coolgamerovr90]

There are a number of vague rules that are completely open to mod / admin interpretation.

They removed some of those vague rules, like don't be or build a dick

The rules are twisted and turned to fit their selected narrative so they can be banned in certain situations.

I have never seen the rules manipulated to get someone banned before, and I don't think I ever will Edited July 3, 2014 by coolgamerovr90

[slide]

For Switchviews and Slide, my main issue is that begging is required. In no way do I see some of these bans needing "begging." People are constantly required to respond back after their ban date has been set and in my eyes thats pointless, what is the point in that? 

The point is that they need to follow the rules. Once they break them, they have to acknowledge what they did and how it broke the rules. How hard is this? It is in no way "begging" we don't make them get on their knees, or ask us nicely, they must make a simple statement.

 

 

 Now for my comment on reading between the lines is that no matter what an admin or mod could make a case around anyone just to ban them. The rules are twisted and turned to fit their selected narrative so they can be banned in certain situations. 

This is blatant bullshit. You are essentially saying we are all corrupt and just do whatever the fuck we want which I take extreme offense too. I'm not going to argue this any more because you simply view us as the enemy and I can do nothing to help you.

[bmx20042004]

The point is that they need to follow the rules. Once they break them, they have to acknowledge what they did and how it broke the rules. How hard is this? It is in no way "begging" we don't make them get on their knees, or ask us nicely, they must make a simple statement.

 

 

This is blatant bullshit. You are essentially saying we are all corrupt and just do whatever the fuck we want which I take extreme offense too. I'm not going to argue this any more because you simply view us as the enemy and I can do nothing to help you.

 

Slide, in no way was I saying you specifically or lumping people together. I'm saying just specific actions that have been happening lately. I just personally feel that this is the true facts of what is going on. Am I not aloud to speak my opinion and others opinions also? Also you don't need to use language in that way toward someone to get a point across, it could be offensive, but to me it's not because I understand your frustration.

[roastnewt]

So, uh

Regardless of all that,

I think having the ability to make players "cool off" or "sit in time-out" with a tempban, without having to go through a whole ban/appeal rigamarole would be a nice tool for mods to have.

[coolgamerovr90]

So, uh

Regardless of all that,

I think having the ability to make players "cool off" or "sit in time-out" with a tempban, without having to go through a whole ban/appeal rigamarole would be a nice tool for mods to have.

I think that if we keep the current banning system, and add this new tempban option for mods to choose to use if they see fit would work out, like /tempban [Player Name Here] [Time Limit] [Message]. Edited July 3, 2014 by coolgamerovr90

[slide]

I'm actually ok with "timeout"/temp bans for minor infractions, <rant>though I know that it will just cause us more grief because it will allow people to claim that more things are subjective and we are abusing and repressing them and we just do things to be mean!</rant>

[CROCKODUCK]

I used to help run a VERY large PVP and factions server and I can tell you from experience that temp bans are entirely pointless.  People view them as a slight disadvantage and as soon as the ban expires, they repeat their actions 9 times out of 10.  Of course those were my observations so take that with whatever weight you please.

[dizney07]

Mama we made it :')

[jllmprrt]

I used to help run a VERY large PVP and factions server and I can tell you from experience that temp bans are entirely pointless. People view them as a slight disadvantage and as soon as the ban expires, they repeat their actions 9 times out of 10. Of course those were my observations so take that with whatever weight you please.

On those kinds of servers, I'd say temp bans are pointless, as those players have access to things such as PvP advantages (not for much longer, but let's save that for later) and factions allow them to literally claim others' work as their own.

For anyone who doesn't know how this works, every faction has a "power level" that determines what amount of land the faction can claim. If the power drops negative (members of the faction die, power drops) then another faction can claim over their base.

On to the 100k bans, I do think the bans that took place from 2011 to early 2012 will never be appealed (for the most part) as it's safe to assume a lot of those people don't play Minecraft anymore. I used to play Minecraft with my brother a ton, but he moved on and plays other games. Some of us might need a reminder that it's the active players who've been around that really know this community and how it functions, and I see often that new guys have a hard time fitting in around here. I hate to be /that guy/ but if some of you could give it a try, maybe fill them in on how the rules work? I see new players join and then leave soon after, sometimes not even saying anything in chat. To clarify, we shouldn't force the rules down their throats, but if they have a question about the rules, not answer with "/me drinks" ? (Questions about minecraft are perfectly fine though)

Pls to not downvote it's 3:12 AM I might read this in the morning and laugh at it

Edited July 3, 2014 by jllmprrt

[tobylane]

Denevien, I think what gsand is getting at is players spend the time to make a forum account, post a ban appeal, and wait for the admin to reply to tell them what they already know.

 

 

I agree with what gsand is saying. It feels as if your in a submissive position because you feel like you have to plead for a chance to be unbanned.

 

Good. Being banned isn't a reduction of your rights, it's a removal of a privilege. Generally if you are pleading for something you recognise that you have to go down a step and ask. We want this so that rule breaking is associated with negative feelings, not like it's some joyous rule-testing or looking for mod abuse every time. The following, from a pm. I'll leave it to them to identify themselves if they want,

 

From my understanding as long as it is not Homophobic / racist it should be allowed to a degree

no one ever told me "Hey, Can you not use autistic remarks?" during the entire i week was able to play

<tobylane> Do you want ban reasons to say "The spirit of the rule" or do you want more rules?

"the spirit of the rules" so atleast players know what they can and cant say

 

Edited July 3, 2014 by tobylane

[EeHee2000]

This is a very multi-sided subject, as ban reasons vary widely from person to person. I for one think we should implement temp bans, but only for small offences. 
For example, crop grief. I don't see why a new player would want to come on these forums, go through the process of making an account, make a ban appeal, wait for staff to respond, read the rules/state what rules they broke and wait again for staff to respond when there's hundreds on hundreds of other servers they can jump on in an instant. 
There's not many reasons for players to do that, in all honesty. I mean, spamming chat/insulting someone a little too much/crop grief and such isn't a reason to make someone do the process of appealing, whereas on the other hand, medium/large scale grief, racist remarks, x-raying etc (in my opinion) warrant for a staff member to investigate a player's ban history, post evidence of the offences, and all the other things.
A temp-ban is like a lengthened kick - the user knows that they will be able to come back on the server relatively soon, and there's no need to make an appeal. 
A side note, temp-bans have been used in the past, I can speak from experience. 

Continuing on the topic of bans in general, I think we need some kind of policy change. 
I mean, barneygale was banned for far too fucking long, dobreira's ban was absolute bullshit, and BCB228's ban could've been handled with a kick and a note. There's plenty of other bans that I and many others can name, but I'm going to leave them out of this. I really don't know what we can do to fix these issues, but needless to say staff need to speak up a little if a ban is clearly unjust. 

[EeHee2000]

My solution to this would be to change the ban message and make it say "To get unbanned visit nerd.nu/appeal" or something like that so they do not think that their ban is permanent, although I still think nerd.nu/appeal is enough

That ban message does show up, yo. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by EeHee2000

[TornadoHorse]

I don't understand the downside of temp bans. It reduces work load since there won't be nearly as many ban appeals to handle, the amount of bans that we have would be dramatically reduced and we might start to get rid of our image as the ban-happy server, more people would be able to play on the server because they aren't banned. Stop being so closed minded about this kind of thing, with there being so much evidence supporting temp bans and pretty much every other server out there using them, it's got to be pretty good, hasn't it? Let's try it out.

[TornadoHorse]

Continuing on the topic of bans in general, I think we need some kind of policy change. 

I mean, barneygale was banned for far too fucking long, dobreira's ban was absolute bullshit, and BCB228's ban could've been handled with a kick and a note. There's plenty of other bans that I and many others can name, but I'm going to leave them out of this. I really don't know what we can do to fix these issues, but needless to say staff need to speak up a little if a ban is clearly unjust. 

 

This.

 

I'm not sure if there's something that we're all missing here, but so many of these long bans recently could've and should've been handled so much better. Why 'perm' bans have been replaced now with a year+ ban is beyond me, makes no sense and if those players are sane (and if nerd is still running by then) they wouldn't be coming back. We need a rethink on how we handle things, whether that's a change in staff or policy.

[barneygale]

Certainly when johnadams was head admin it wasn't enough to admit fault, she was also desperate to see me beg/submit. Only a small minority of staff called it out at the time.

[roastnewt]

I used to help run a VERY large PVP and factions server and I can tell you from experience that temp bans are entirely pointless.  People view them as a slight disadvantage and as soon as the ban expires, they repeat their actions 9 times out of 10.  Of course those were my observations so take that with whatever weight you please.

 

I actually find this extremely interesting, and would love to hear more.  I also help run a large network, which includes a PvP and factions server (the factions server has a max player count of 200-300 in the evenings, the network as a whole has 500-600), and we use tempbans all the time, to great effect.  Most people come back after their bans are over, and most players do not "re-offend" more than once within a year.

 

All of our peers in the server community (of similar size) use tempbans too.

 

Since there are only a few dozen servers of this size or greater, we have close, professional relationships with most of their owners.  I'd be interested to know which server you ran.

[barneygale]

~~ High Scores ~~
1. trevorman - 14k bans
2. Verros - 4.9k bans
3. cyotie911 - 4.9k bans
4. barneygale - 3.5k bans
5. Boredeth - 3.1k bans
6. marting11 - 2.7k bans
7. Barlimore - 2.2k bans
8. Dumbo52 - 2.1k bans
9 .c45y - 2k bans
10. totemo - 1.9k bans